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“Why Aren’t You Speaking English?”

OscarB63 said:
and it fails at the core. if you have been speaking a language for 23 years and you still cannot speak it from the heart, you have no business testifying in front of any official body
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That's a bunch of crap. Anybody with a legal citizenship has the right to address those who were elected to represent their interests. This fellow used a tool to help him express himself better, nothing more. Until English is the official language in law, nobody has any business telling this guy what language he has to speak, especially when he had a way to make himself understood.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
That's a bunch of crap. Anybody with a legal citizenship has the right to address those who were elected to represent their interests. This fellow used a tool to help him express himself better, nothing more. Until English is the official language in law, nobody has any business telling this guy what language he has to speak, especially when he had a way to make himself understood.
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there is a difference between "having a right to" and "being qualified to". if you have been in the US for 23 years and can't speak english well enough to speak it in front of a committee, you are not qualified (due to lack of intelligence or effort) to speak, no matter what your "rights" are.


it comes down to the fact that this guy has been in the US twenty freakin three years. if he isn't comfortable speaking english after twenty freakin three years, then he is either a dumb **** or he has put zero effort into assimilating into the culture. in either case, his opinion is worth bupkiss
 
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OscarB63 said:
there is a difference between "having a right to" and "being qualified to". if you have been in the US for 23 years and can't speak english well enough to speak it in front of a committee, you are not qualified (due to lack of intelligence or effort) to speak, no matter what your "rights" are.
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That is why he brought an interpreter. The senator cut him off while he was speaking Spanish to make a stupid point. The guy came prepared to have the discussion take place via English.

OscarB63 said:
it comes down to the fact that this guy has been in the US twenty freakin three years. if he isn't comfortable speaking english after twenty freakin three years, then he is either a dumb **** or he has put zero effort into assimilating into the culture. in either case, his opinion is worth bupkiss
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That's a silly reason to not consider what he has to say but you're entitled to do what you want. We don't really know the reasons why he can't speak English, and and it doesn't matter. He was representing his community as a leader. That was what made him qualified to be speaking.

The senator debased the whole thing by trying to make him look like a stupid and ignorant immigrant, and that's because the senator doesn't actually give a damn what the guy has to say.

You only flip off your opponents in this way if you have no real interest in taking what they have to say seriously. I'm so glad that our democratic process has remained open and communicative! :roll:
 
OscarB63 said:
and it fails at the core. if you have been speaking a language for 23 years and you still cannot speak it from the heart, you have no business testifying in front of any official body
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I really fail to see how the two are even relevant.

There are plenty of social reasons for why someone might not speak English well after spending so much time in this country, first and foremost is, they've simply never been forced to, and have been able to get by without. Perhaps he socializes most with immigrant populations who speak Spanish on a regular basis. There are a host of other potential explanations for this. I said it before and I'll say it again, to get a stick up your ass over something as trivial as this is about as dumb as getting angry at Grandma for not knowing how to use a keyboard.
 
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StillBallin75 said:
I really fail to see how the two are even relevant.

There are plenty of social reasons for why someone might not speak English well after spending so much time in this country, first and foremost is, they've simply never been forced to, and have been able to get by without. Perhaps he socializes most with immigrant populations who speak Spanish on a regular basis. There are a host of other potential explanations for this. I said it before and I'll say it again, to get a stick up your ass over something as trivial as this is about as dumb as getting angry at Grandma for not knowing how to use a keyboard.
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that's why we are having this discussion. you guys just can't/won't see the point. it's really not about him speaking spanish.

as for grandma...if she'd been using a keyboard for twenty three years and was still useless at it, the she is a dumbass or hasn't been trying to learn

this guy has been speaking english for TWENTY THREE YEARS
 
The guy spoke and understood English fluently. He was making a point, and the point he was making is that even though he chose to leave his country of origin and chose to become an American, he did not choose to become a part of the melting pot that is American culture. Instead, he wants America to conform to the culture of his country of origin. As far as the "speaking from the heart" thing, the dude was reading a speech that was already written down.

There are probably a hundred languages spoken in America by immigrants from around the world. Why is it that a single language, Spanish, should be elevated to the point where there are almost as many radio and tv programs in that language as there are in English? There is little incentive for the hispanic community to learn English, because everything they need is available in Spanish. That forms a core separation between them and the rest of America, and that core separation will eventually lead to resentment. When one walks into a restaurant or a retail establishment on American soil, it's not unreasonable to expect those who work there to speak English so that they can communicate with their customers, yet in all too many places throughout the country this is not the case. It is incredibly frustrating to ask a clerk or a server a question about the product or establishment, only to be met with "No habla English."

Now I wouldn't have been particularly ticked off at the guy shown in the OP if he wasn't introducing himself as a hispanic activist... he did not identify himself as an American, and to me that's a problem... then proceed to rattle off in Spanish opposition to a proposed law that he believed would harm hispanics. America cannot be a melting pot when 40 million folks have decided to rope themselves off from the rest of the country, and consider themselves only Hispanic rather than American. That's happening far too often amongst Latino activists, and I don't see it as a positive thing for the country as a whole.
 
OscarB63 said:
that's why we are having this discussion. you guys just can't/won't see the point. it's really not about him speaking spanish.

as for grandma...if she'd been using a keyboard for twenty three years and was still useless at it, the she is a dumbass or hasn't been trying to learn

this guy has been speaking english for TWENTY THREE YEARS
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He's been LIVING in this country for twenty-three years. Not an unsubtle difference. Some people don't adjust well to their new environments and prefer to stick with what's familiar. I really don't see the need for all this populist outrage at him not being able to speak English well. It's a free country, and English isn't the declared official language of Texas nor the country as a whole. He could do better, but I don't see the need for people to get their panties all up in a bunch just cuz this dude was in America 23 years and can't speak English well. Being a first-generation American myself, I know plenty of people like that and I'm not bitching about it because I can see the reasons behind their behavior. People generally don't go out and do new things unless they have a lot of time and curiosity on their hands, or until they are forced to. :shrug:

Bottom line: Yeah, the dude could do better. But I don't see why people are getting sand in their vaginas all over this.
 
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The country needs a single national language to promote unity in the country. This is done all over the world. The vast majority of bi/multi-lingual countries in the world have serious problems and issues relating to differing ethno-linguistic identities in the country. It is important for the U.S. to establish English as the official working language of the country and immigrants need to make an effort to learn the language -- and be given an incentive to do so.
 
OscarB63 said:
there is a difference between "having a right to" and "being qualified to". if you have been in the US for 23 years and can't speak english well enough to speak it in front of a committee, you are not qualified (due to lack of intelligence or effort) to speak, no matter what your "rights" are.
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If you've a right to, you're qualified to. There should never be any additional requirements for addressing your elected representatives.

OscarB63 said:
if he isn't comfortable speaking english after twenty freakin three years, then he is either a dumb **** or he has put zero effort into assimilating into the culture. in either case, his opinion is worth bupkiss
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Zero effort? He can speak English as a second language -- I'd say that's a lot more than zero effort.
 
DiAnna said:
The guy spoke and understood English fluently. He was making a point, and the point he was making is that even though he chose to leave his country of origin and chose to become an American, he did not choose to become a part of the melting pot that is American culture. Instead, he wants America to conform to the culture of his country of origin. As far as the "speaking from the heart" thing, the dude was reading a speech that was already written down..
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for emphasis. DiAnna gets it.


this is the freakin point.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
:2bigcry:
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still missing it. :roll: if he's been speaking it for 23 years and he still isn't comfortable with it...he really hasn't put much, if any, effort into it
 
OscarB63 said:
still missing it. :roll: if he's been speaking it for 23 years and he still isn't comfortable with it...he really hasn't put much, if any, effort into it
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Wow, that was awfully mature of you, turning my entire statement into a crybaby smilie. Gosh, you totally defeated my argument with your eloquence. I'm in awe.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
No, DiAnna doesn't get it. Neither do you. He specifically said it was because it was his first time -- not because he was making a point about not assimilating.
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No, DiAnna gets it. If you ignore what a person says (and over 30 pages of discussion) you can pretend that person said anything.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
No, DiAnna doesn't get it. Neither do you. He specifically said it was because it was his first time -- not because he was making a point about not assimilating.
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I might agree with you if he'd introduced himself as "a proud Hispanic American." He did not. He introduced himself only as belong to a hispanic activist organization. Dude was sending a message to "his own community", not to ours... and the fact that he does not consider the rest of America to be "his own community" after a quarter of a century living here, that's a problem for me.
 
DiAnna said:
I might agree with you if he'd introduced himself as "a proud Hispanic American." He did not. He introduced himself only as belong to a hispanic activist organization.
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As if that makes any difference. If he'd use those words, you would've picked on him for describing himself as something other than American. It's not the choice of words, but how you're electing to read them.
 
OscarB63 said:
DiAnna said:
The guy spoke and understood English fluently. He was making a point, and the point he was making is that even though he chose to leave his country of origin and chose to become an American, he did not choose to become a part of the melting pot that is American culture. Instead, he wants America to conform to the culture of his country of origin. As far as the "speaking from the heart" thing, the dude was reading a speech that was already written down.
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for emphasis. DiAnna gets it.

this is the freakin point.
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What you are both essentially saying is that this guy does not live up to your idea of a real American and therefore is being rude and disrespectful...not because of any practical or legal concerns, but because he did not melt into your "pot". This is what we call arrogance. Good luck with that.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
As if that makes any difference. If he'd use those words, you would've picked on him for describing himself as something other than American. It's not the choice of words, but how you're electing to read them.
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No, I wouldn't have. Please don't decide how I would or would not say in a fictitious setting. I am responding to the clip in the OP, and how I view that. You viewed it differently. That does not make me wrong and you right. I makes us disagree.
 
theplaydrive said:
What you are both essentially saying is that this guy does not live up to your idea of a real American and therefore is being rude and disrespectful...not because of any practical or legal concerns, but because he did not melt into your "pot". This is what we call arrogance. Good luck with that.
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I don't believe it's arrogant to have a point of view that you personally do not share. Do not tell me what I am "essentially" saying. I can, and have, spoken for myself. I have said what I meant, and nothing in my post indicated that the man was being rude or disrespectful. He was lobbying on behalf of his race, and I happen to believe that equality will never exist in this country until people of all races view themselves first and foremost as an American. As long as we define ourselves first by race and second by citizenship, the racial divides will continue to erode the cohesion of our populace.
 
DiAnna said:
No, I wouldn't have. Please don't decide how I would or would not say in a fictitious setting. I am responding to the clip in the OP, and how I view that. You viewed it differently. That does not make me wrong and you right. I makes us disagree.
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I'm not deciding for you, you made it pretty obvious -- you're splitting an imaginary hair based on a choice of words that doesn't justify the interpretation you've given them. You decided what his thinking is -- despite what he actually said his thinking was -- and you're interpreting his words to agree with your assessment. If he'd used different words, you would've interpreted them in a similar fashion.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
I'm not deciding for you, you made it pretty obvious -- you're splitting an imaginary hair based on a choice of words that doesn't justify the interpretation you've given them. You decided what his thinking is -- despite what he actually said his thinking was -- and you're interpreting his words to agree with your assessment. If he'd used different words, you would've interpreted them in a similar fashion.
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Since you've decided to discuss the poster, me, rather than the topic, we're done here.
 
I'm discussing what you said, but I guess that interpreting that as a personal attack is a convenient way to sidestep a point you can't address . . . if a bit transparent.
 
DiAnna said:
I don't believe it's arrogant to have a point of view that you personally do not share.
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Neither do I. That's not why I called your point of view arrogant...at all. Read it again.

DiAnna said:
Do not tell me what I am "essentially" saying. I can, and have, spoken for myself.
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Okay, let's take your own words since we can't be more efficient by summing it up like I did.

DiAnna said:
The guy spoke and understood English fluently. He was making a point, and the point he was making is that even though he chose to leave his country of origin and chose to become an American, he did not choose to become a part of the melting pot that is American culture. Instead, he wants America to conform to the culture of his country of origin.
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1. Let me point out the irony of you telling me not to tell you what you're "essentially" saying when you have just made a completely baseless assumption about the "point" this man was making and told him what he was "essentially" doing by speaking Spanish.

2. In this quote, you have clearly laid out your idea of what a real American is and criticized the guy for not living up to it - this is exactly what I said you did, so your criticism of my analysis is baseless.


DiAnna said:
I have said what I meant, and nothing in my post indicated that the man was being rude or disrespectful.
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My mistake, I've always associated "wanting America to conform to the culture of his country of origin" instead of "becoming a part of the melting pot" as an accusation of disrespect. Moreover, the fact that you "wouldn't have been particularly ticked off he hadn't introduced himself as a Hispanic activist" means that you are, in fact, particularly ticked off since he did.

DiAnna said:
He was lobbying on behalf of his race, and I happen to believe that equality will never exist in this country until people of all races view themselves first and foremost as an American. As long as we define ourselves first by race and second by citizenship, the racial divides will continue to erode the cohesion of our populace.
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Mexican and Hispanic aren't races.
 
What we need in this country is to make English the official language. We also need to eliminate ESL and teach children using the english immersion method. I am fed up with illegals demanding rights in our country. They have no right to be here in the first place.
 
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