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“Why Aren’t You Speaking English?”

How about this. If we are going to give a rat's ass about someone's opinion before a government committee, it will be spoken directly in English, unless voted otherwise.

This thread is so ****ing full of "populism over pragmatism."

Have fun trying to understand broken English and thick accents.
 
What precisely are "US values?" Do such values even exist? It's a free country, by the way. People are free to practice whatever and values and lifestyles they wish to (and THAT, in my opinion is the essence of what America is supposed to be), as long as they don't break the law. If you want everyone to speak English, then I suggest you campaign for legislation that would make English the official language of the United States.

There is a thing as American values, but aside from the fact I wouldn't want to type a long list..you can see it as somewhat anti-statist, individualistic, hard-working, religious, patriotic, and utilitarian. Now aside from that, there is this from Emerson about America: "..asylum of all nations, the energy of Irish, Germans, Swedes, Poles & cossacks, & all the European tribes-of the Africans, & of the Polynesians, will construct a new race...as vigorous as the new Europe which came out of the smelting pot of the Dark Ages.."

Or John Q. Adams: "They must cast off the European skin, never to resume it. They must look forward to their posterity rather than backward to their ancestors."

But you could just as easily put in Tocqueville, couldn't you?:
"A society formed of all the nations of the world....people having different languages, beliefs, opinions: in a word, a society without roots, without memories, without prejudices, without routines, without common ideas, without a national character, yet a hundred times happier than our own."

"How does it happen that in the United States, where the inhabitants have only recently immigrated to the land which they now occupy, and brought neither customs nor traditions with them there; where they met one another for the first time with no previous acquaintance; where, in short, the instinctive love of country can scarcely exist; how does it happen that every one takes as zealous an interest in the affairs of his township, his country, and the whole state as if they were his own? It is because everyone in his sphere, takes an active part in the government of society."
 
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I have no problem believing it. I was an expat brat most of my childhood, my whole teens and part of my adulthood. I've seen people not even bother to learn the local language no matter hjow long they'd been in the country. My mother has many Swiss, German and Dutch neighbors in Spain who have been living there for 10 to 15 years who don't speak a word of Spanish. I know countless Americans and British expats who live here in Switzerland and speak none of the local languages. Again many of them have been here over 10 years.

The thing is, if people can get by without learning the language and can function reasonably well without it, they simply won't learn it. :shrug:

Excellent point.
 
Horrible. One of the things I love about the different countries I have lived in over the years is the chance to immerse myself in the language and learn it and the culture that it is a part of...

I think that's great, and personally I think that if you DO live in a foreign country, one should take full advantage of that opportunity and immerse themselves in the local culture. But, however lamentable the fact that some people don't do the above, I wouldn't be angry at them if they made such a choice.
 
The guy speaks English, you hear him in the video, he's a immigrant rights activist trying to show he'll make a stand. The Senator was spot on.

The way I see it, when in Rome, do as the Romans do.. He's been in the states for 23 years and still is crippling himself by using the language that he feels more comfortable with. Give me a break. He can speak english. Maybe not well. But that's because he isn't trying to use it. He's making others learn spanish in order to understand what he is saying. Anyway, since he's been here that long, he could've picked up a lot of English just from being out in the public, dealing with those that do speak it, to have learned it well enough. No one is saying to any immigrant to learn English well. Only to learn it. It's the language of America. Time for those that can't speak it to deal with it and come out of their boxes and learn it. This is America. And our official language is English. Kudos to that senator for speaking up about it. And it comes as no surprise that yet another politician piped up enabling the one who was in the wrong. Go friggin' figure.
 
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The way I see it, when in Rome, do as the Romans do.. He's been in the states for 23 years and still is crippling himself by using the language that he feels more comfortable with. Give me a break. He can speak english. Maybe not well. But that's because he isn't trying to use it. He's making others learn spanish in order to understand what he is saying. Anyway, since he's been here that long, he could've picked up a lot of English just from being out in the public, dealing with those that do speak it, to have learned it well enough. No one is saying to any immigrant to learn English well. Only to learn it. It's the language of America. Time for those that can't speak it to deal with it and come out of their boxes and learn it. This is America. And our official language is English.

But it's not. And he's not making other people learn Spanish. The dude had a translator.
 
Great. Again, we don't have an official language here, he can speak whatever language he wants.

Sure, he can speak whatever language he wants and he only has himself to blame when he doesn't get his way, because no one knows what the hell he talking about.
 
Sure, he can speak whatever language he wants and he only has himself to blame when he doesn't get his way, because no one knows what the hell he talking about.
He had a ****ing translator.
 
The way I see it, when in Rome, do as the Romans do.. He's been in the states for 23 years and still is crippling himself by using the language that he feels more comfortable with. Give me a break. He can speak english. Maybe not well. But that's because he isn't trying to use it. He's making others learn spanish in order to understand what he is saying. Anyway, since he's been here that long, he could've picked up a lot of English just from being out in the public, dealing with those that do speak it, to have learned it well enough. No one is saying to any immigrant to learn English well. Only to learn it. It's the language of America. Time for those that can't speak it to deal with it and come out of their boxes and learn it. This is America. And our official language is English. Kudos to that senator for speaking up about it. And it comes as no surprise that yet another politician piped up enabling the one who was in the wrong. Go friggin' figure.
while the country has no official langurage, english is the most widely spoken, and if this gentleman was able to speak it, he should have....if i moved to another country, and the local language was not english, i would feel that i should learn, or attempt to learn enough of the local language to at least be able to get by.
 
This thread is so ****ing full of "populism over pragmatism."

Have fun trying to understand broken English and thick accents.

Bull****. Pragmatism my ass. First off, via a translator, there is also opportunity for confusion. But more importantly, the opinion can be expressed in writing, or at least those listening can decide whether they are able to understand the "broken English". You present it as "translator or broken English". Those are not the only two possibilities, are they ? What determination was made that they are ?
 
Why do you want to put translators out of work? Isn't your unemployment rate high enough as it is?

LOL .. I don't think translators will be put out of work. However, as our President just blamed ATM's for high unemployment, I guess it depends on who you are talking to ;)
 
Bull****. Pragmatism my ass. First off, via a translator, there is also opportunity for confusion. But more importantly, the opinion can be expressed in writing, or at least those listening can decide whether they are able to understand the "broken English". You present it as "translator or broken English". Those are not the only two possibilities, are they ? What determination was made that they are ?

You made the assertion that ANYONE testifying should be made to speak English. Therefore you open yourself up to a hell of a lot more problems than you're trying to solve. If the choice is between "translator who can definitely speak English," or "immigrant who may or may not speak English well," I'm choosing the translator every time.
 
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You made the assertion that ANYONE testifying should be made to speak English. Therefore you open yourself up to a hell of a lot more problems than you're trying to solve.

No I did not. I made the assertion that those on the Committee would decide if they could understand the English as spoken by the one giving testimony. Or if they wanted to hear it in a different language, or not at all. Read again.
 
No I did not. I made the assertion that those on the Committee would decide if they could understand the English as spoken by the one giving testimony. Or if they wanted to hear it in a different language, or not at all. Read again.

i stand corrected.

Nevertheless I see no necessity for such a move.
 
But it's not. And he's not making other people learn Spanish. The dude had a translator.
Just seems odd to me. 23 years?

He can’t be any worse than Ozzie Guillen, and I can understand Ozzie-speak without a translator :shrug:
 
Just seems odd to me. 23 years?

He can’t be any worse than Ozzie Guillen, and I can understand Ozzie-speak without a translator :shrug:

It was a political stunt, and it backfired when he got called out for it.
 
Just seems odd to me. 23 years?

He can’t be any worse than Ozzie Guillen, and I can understand Ozzie-speak without a translator :shrug:

I think the following posts illustrate the point I was trying to make, in response to your post #217

I have no problem believing it. I was an expat brat most of my childhood, my whole teens and part of my adulthood. I've seen people not even bother to learn the local language no matter hjow long they'd been in the country. My mother has many Swiss, German and Dutch neighbors in Spain who have been living there for 10 to 15 years who don't speak a word of Spanish. I know countless Americans and British expats who live here in Switzerland and speak none of the local languages. Again many of them have been here over 10 years.

The thing is, if people can get by without learning the language and can function reasonably well without it, they simply won't learn it. :shrug:

For the most part, I believe that proficiency in the English language on the part of immigrants more a function of choice, and perhaps mental acuity, than one of time spent in the country. For instance, both of my parents are immigrants to this country (from Taiwan). My dad has been here for about 26 years, my mother has been here slightly less, about 24. My mother's English is drastically better than my father's. I'm not sure why, but I suspect it also has something to do with the fact that my dad just doesn't know when his pronunciation really sucks so he doesn't know how to improve his English because he just resorts to the same bad pronunciations every time I try to correct him.

I don't believe it was a political stunt, and I don't believe he was trying to make a statement.

If he was more comfortable expressing himself in Spanish, I have no problem with that. That's what we have translators for. It's not just about what the audience can comprehend, it's also about he effectively he thought he could communicate in English, to which the answer is apparently "not very."
 
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It was a political stunt, and it backfired when he got called out for it.

1) You have no evidence of that.

2) If it were, it would have been a dumb move on his part. IIRC, he was trying to testify AGAINST anti-illegal legislation. Doesn't really help your case to try and piss off the people you're trying to gain empathy or compassion from.
 
Just seems odd to me. 23 years?

He can’t be any worse than Ozzie Guillen, and I can understand Ozzie-speak without a translator :shrug:

that's the kicker. the guy has been here 23 freakin years. if he isn't comfortable speaking english in front of people by now he either

1. has made no effort to assimilate into american culture and therefore his opinion means dick

2. he has made an effort but he is just dumb as **** and therefore his opinion means dick

3. he did this as some kind of stunt to make a political statement and therefore his opinion means dick
 
that's the kicker. the guy has been here 23 freakin years. if he isn't comfortable speaking english in front of people by now he either

1. has made no effort to assimilate into american culture and therefore his opinion means dick

2. he has made an effort but he is just dumb as **** and therefore his opinion means dick

3. he did this as some kind of stunt to make a political statement and therefore his opinion means dick

The only rationale for dismissing his opinion as worthless is if it was irrelevant to the issue at hand. All other reasons for dismissing this man's opinions are bull****. What language he chose or didn't choose to speak in should have no bearing on the significance of his testimony, and anyone who thinks that this man's opinion is worthless simply because he spoke Spanish needs to have their head examined.
 
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1) You have no evidence of that.

2) If it were, it would have been a dumb move on his part. IIRC, he was trying to testify AGAINST anti-illegal legislation. Doesn't really help your case to try and piss off the people you're trying to gain empathy or compassion from.

see #2... he is dumb as ****
 
The only rationale for dismissing his opinion as worthless is if it was irrelevant to the issue at hand. All other reasons for dismissing this man's opinions are bull****. What language he chose or didn't choose to speak in should have no bearing on the significance of his testimony, and anyone who thinks that this man's opinion is worthless simply because he spoke Spanish needs to have their head examined.

anyone who thinks I said his opinion is worthless because he spoke spanish is a retard
 
I think the following posts illustrate the point I was trying to make, in response to your post #217
Oh, I understand. As is painfully obvious here, there’s a correlation between effort and result.
 
i stand corrected.

Nevertheless I see no necessity for such a move.

Noted. I am not stating it as a "necessity". Clearly that committee had no specific protocol, and as such, at least one member was surprised at how things transpired. While I am stretching it to make a point, what if the entity testifying felt "most comfortable" speaking in Swahili, with a translator naturally ? What is to stop it if the members of the Committee feel it inappropriate ?

With what happened here, I can certainly understand members wanting to question the one testifying about the manner of their testimony. I can understand more than one thinking it was a bit of a stunt or statement that they wanted to take issue with. Then let them vote as to how they will hear it, if at all.
 
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