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Horror for US Economy as Data Falls off Cliff

PeteEU said:
so the constitution, bill of rights and all that stuff right?
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Our Forefathers and Founders didnt embrace liberals.......they shot them.
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atrasicarius said:
I actually can't tell if you're being serious or not. That's kind of depressing.
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Can you name ONE Democrat Policy in US History, that has encouraged US Businesses to remain in this country?

Your serious answer will set you free.........
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Jetboogieman said:
Ah ha.

So you're one of "those" conservatives, well it's been nice chatting but since you have no idea what you're talking about I'm going to go watch the grass grow, far more productive.
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Have it your way.
 
Badmutha said:
Can you name ONE Democrat Policy in US History, that has encouraged US Businesses to remain in this country?

Your serious answer will set you free.........
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So in other words, you think the best thing we could do for the country is make it as nice as possible for the businesses?
 
Badmutha said:
Our Forefathers and Founders didnt embrace liberals.......they shot them.
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The founding fathers were liberals...

But you see that's the problem.

Definitions have become to skewed in your political system.

Conservatism in actual definition tends to be exactly what it sounds like "conserve" Keep traditions, the status quo...

The founding fathers did anything but keep the status quo, the conservatives of their time would stay with England, they were liberals that broke off...

The abolitionists were liberals of their time, conservatives of that time wished to keep the status quo... I.E. Slavery...

And the list goes on and on and on.

But that's the problem when people don't get definitions, and what words really mean, but twist them to suit their agenda, one person even referred to the constitution as a "Conservative document".

What a pathetic attempt at ownership, as if SOME Conservatives of this day feel the constitution was written for them, and them alone, and they're somehow the final warriors standing up for it.

It's pathetic.

If you feel the need to be a liberal first, or a conservative first, rather then an American, I feel sorry for you, honestly I do.

I do not look at my countrymen, be they South African, British or Canadian with despise for their political beliefs, no matter what they may be.

So have fun with that extremely skewed version of the world.
 
Jetboogieman said:
The founding fathers were liberals...
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Yes. Classical liberals are today's conservatives.
o They believed economic liberty provided the greatest means to achieve happiness and prosperity. So to today's conservatives.
o They believed that government must be tightly controlled and constrained lest it become Leviathan. They were right to fear an all powerful, central government. Today's conservatives believe the same.
o They believed that a division of powers and responsibilities between the three branches of the federal government, the States, and the People provided for the best means of maintaining their freedoms, their liberty, and their livelihoods. Today's conservatives recognize that the Federal government has become enormously powerful with the three branches cooperating rather than contending as the Framers had planned it. So power once set down by the States must be taken up once again.
The Framers were classical liberals. So are today's Conservatives.
Words are like that.
 
PeteEU said:
so the constitution, bill of rights and all that stuff right?
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Pete, do you believe the Framers were Democrats? Are you even remotely familiar with US History or did you attend a government schools after the 1980s?
 
atrasicarius said:
So tell me, conservatives. If you were put in charge right now, what would you do to fix the economy?
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It is very simple.

-Repeal all corporate taxes (establishing the US as a tax and job haven)
-Cap total income taxes paid at 25% (preventing the exporting of dollars to avoid taxes)
-Establish reasonable tariffs on all imports (leveling the playing field with countries that don't properly compensate their workers)
-Deport illegal immigrants and strictly enforce laws requiring citizenship for employment (increasing the number of citizens that can find work)
-Cap spending at the current level of revenue (Freeing capital for investment in the private sector)
-STOP PRINTING MONEY!


As a bonus, allow citizens on their W-2, to dictate where their money is spent. That should be a fun experiment.
 
atrasicarius said:
So in other words, you think the best thing we could do for the country is make it as nice as possible for the businesses?
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Tell me what you feel would be the biggest detriment to establishing THE MOST BUSINESS FRIENDLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD......in lieu of THE MOST BUSINESS UNFRIENDLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD?

.....The booming economy?

....The thousands of Made In The USA Businesses?

....The millions of US JOBS that would be created?

.....Prosperity, Freedom, Liberty?
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andrew cuomo on the need for his state to become "business friendly:"

"we have the worst business tax climate in the nation, period, our taxes are 66% higher than the national average"

"the costs of pensions are exploding... a 476% increase and its only getting worse"

"the state of new york spends too much money, it is that blunt and it is that simple"

"an unsustainable rate of growth and it has been for a long time"

"not only do we spend too much, but we get too little in return"

"the large government we have is all too often responsive to the special interests over the people"

"new yorkers are voting with their feet, two million new yorkers have left the state over the past decade"

"what does this say, it says we need radical reform, it says we need a new approach, we need a new perspective and we need it now"

"this is a fundamental realignment for the state"

"the old way wasn't working anyway, let's be honest"

"we want a government that puts the people first and not the special interests first"

"what made new york the empire state was a not a large government complex, it was a vibrant private sector that was creating great jobs"

"and that's what's going to make us the empire state again"

"at the heart of this state is business"

"we have to relearn the lesson our founders knew and we have to put up a sign that says new york is open for business, we get it, and this is going to be a business friendly state"

"we are going to have to confront the tax situation in our state, property taxes in this state are killing new yorkers, thirteen of the sixteen highest tax counties are in new york when assessed by home value"

"westchester county has the highest property taxes in the united states, nassau county has the second highest"

"it has to end, it has to end this year"

"we have to hold the line on taxes for now and reduce taxes in the future, new york has no future as the tax capital of the nation, our young people will not stay, our business will not come"

"put it simply, the people of this state simply cannot afford to pay any more taxes, period"

"we have to start with an emergency financial plan to stabilize our finances, we need to hold the line and we need to institute a wage freeze in the state of new york, we need to hold the line on taxes, we need a state spending cap and we need to close this $10 billion gap without any borrowing"

GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS | Governor Andrew M. Cuomo

and in new york it aint just rhetoric:

Cuomo budget: $10 billion deficit cut, no new taxes, layoffs likely

leadership, anyone?
 
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Misterveritis said:
Given that can you show me how Republicans control one-half of the federal government? From memory, without Google's assistance, I think Republicans only control the House. Your mileage may vary.
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Yeah, to the casual observer, but allow me to illustrate the way I see it:

The Democrats, obviously, have the White House.

The Republicans have the House, and they have enough seats to filibuster in the Senate. As such, they firmly control one lobe of the legislative branch, and have enough control over the other that the Democrats can't jam anything through.

The Supreme Court has a decidedly conservative lean.

That looks like half the government to me.
 
Misterveritis said:
o They believed that government must be tightly controlled and constrained lest it become Leviathan. They were right to fear an all powerful, central government. Today's conservatives believe the same.
o They believed that a division of powers and responsibilities between the three branches of the federal government, the States, and the People provided for the best means of maintaining their freedoms, their liberty, and their livelihoods. Today's conservatives recognize that the Federal government has become enormously powerful with the three branches cooperating rather than contending as the Framers had planned it. So power once set down by the States must be taken up once again.
The Framers were classical liberals. So are today's Conservatives.
Words are like that.
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Must be you're saying that there aren't a lot of "today's Conservatives" in the Republican party.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Yeah, to the casual observer, but allow me to illustrate the way I see it:

The Democrats, obviously, have the White House.

The Republicans have the House, and they have enough seats to filibuster in the Senate.
As such, they firmly control one lobe of the legislative branch, and have enough control over the other that the Democrats can't jam anything through.
The Supreme Court has a decidedly conservative lean.
That looks like half the government to me.
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And that is why you lose. It is creative though.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Must be you're saying that there aren't a lot of "today's Conservatives" in the Republican party.
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I do agree. There are not enough conservatives in the Republican Party. Fortunately there is the Tea Party. And those conservatives are running for local and state offices in droves. They are replacing liberals and so-called moderates at every level of government across the nation. The nicest part is that you won't even see your defeat coming.
Oops. Did I just type that out loud?
 
Misterveritis said:
I do agree. There are not enough conservatives in the Republican Party. Fortunately there is the Tea Party. And those conservatives are running for local and state offices in droves. They are replacing liberals and so-called moderates at every level of government across the nation. The nicest part is that you won't even see your defeat coming.
Oops. Did I just type that out loud?
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My defeat? I'm pissed at both the Republicans and Democrats. You have no idea what my "defeat" would look like.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
My defeat? I'm pissed at both the Republicans and Democrats. You have no idea what my "defeat" would look like.
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Fine. Perhaps you will be delighted in a few years when the new crop of conservatives are ready to provide adult leadership to this country. I shall, for the moment, assume you will be delighted.
 
Misterveritis said:
Fine. Perhaps you will be delighted in a few years when the new crop of conservatives are ready to provide adult leadership to this country. I shall, for the moment, assume you will be delighted.
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It's so cute that you think this is what will happen.
 
Misterveritis said:
There is the truth, provided by me. And there was your view of the truth, provided by you.
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No, there's where you sort-of got it right and didn't use your rendition of the truth to explain how the Republicans are not in control of half of the government.
 
JohnWOlin said:
I think what you guys aren't really coming to terms with is that regardless of who was running the show right now the economy would be in about the same situation. My job for example is out until August (praying it isn't longer) due to the tsunami in Japan slowing down suppliers. Regardless of whom was in the Oval Office my job would have been gone for the time being. Also what most people don't realize is countries specifically hit by the 2008 recession such as Germany, Canada, United Kingdom, Germany, Australia, haven't fully recovered either. Is it Obama's fault those countries haven't fully recovered? Of course these countries have a typically slightly smaller percentage of unemployment at around 7%. I hate to say it I think quite a few economist are right though, we won't fully recover from this crap until well after Obama or any other president that may be president in 2012 is out of office.

People my age especially it is incredibly hard to find work with a college education or not. I talk to a lot of older people in their 50s+ telling me about when they were my age getting jobs making $18-30/hr lots of hours good benefits, good pension, etc and talking about that being a normal thing and thinking, goddamn that would be great. I think our politics on both sides could be blamed on the fact that this doesn't happen anymore (and people are happy when they make $12-15 an hour nowadays and can even get full medical coverage let alone a good pension) but I also greatly blame China and India. A lot. I think China and India has to be dealt with, in my mind China is a bigger threat to the American way of life than any terrorist organization could ever hope to be. Of course, it is our own U.S. government and corporations making it this way ****ing us as hard as possible. I think the only way this will end is one day when China and India actually have a real middle class that begins to demand real working wages, less hours, better benefits and when China is seen as being sort of a USSR style fraud. When all this **** happens and there is less incentive for these countries to keep ****ing us over so they can make $300 on a iPod that cost them $50 in parts and labor then our country will boom even more as the jobs come back this way, that or they will move to Africa. :(
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Canada, with a minority Conservative government, barely felt any recession and the economy is really quite good. Any unemployment tends to be voluntary.

The Conservatives were rewarded with a majority government recently and certainly have the support of the Canadian people. It is a very business friendly government, much like the United States used to be.

Founding Principles
 
MrVicchio said:
Three Simple Steps to Economic Recovery:

1. Repeal Obamacare. It's a boondoggle that's going ot costs jobs and retard growth for YEARS.

2. Greatly curb the EPA's over reaching (think the CO2 regulation attempts)

3. Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation
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You must've cut-n-paste the wrong list because your list title clearly says "Economic Recovery" not "How to take America back to the 1800s".
 
zimmer said:
Let's spend even more. Raise taxes. Create more regulations and burdens!

Yes We Can!






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You act like this is Obamas fault. Or the Dems fault. Its not. Get real man.
Shared responsibility. Unless you are getting brainwashed by salesmen like Hannity, you should understand that.
 
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