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House rejects debt ceiling increase

Jetboogieman

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Washington (CNN) -- In a symbolic vote to send a message to budget negotiators, the House on Tuesday defeated a measure to raise the national debt ceiling without any accompanying deficit or spending reduction provisions.

The Republican-controlled House voted 318-97 on the legislation that would have raised the federal government's debt limit by approximately $2.4 trillion.

Under rules for the vote set by the GOP leadership, the measure needed at least two-thirds support to pass, ensuring it had no chance for approval.

The vote was scheduled by Republican leaders to show that any attempt to divorce an increase in the debt ceiling from spending reduction efforts -- a move initially favored by the Obama White House -- cannot win congressional approval.

Democrats called the move a dangerous political stunt that could rattle financial markets.

"We understand the views that are being expressed" by the vote, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters before the vote. "We share the concerns that drive those views. (But) in the end, the debt ceiling has to be raised."

President Barack Obama is scheduled to meet with congressional Republicans on Wednesday as part of the administration's ongoing debt-ceiling and related budget negotiations. Vice President Joe Biden has been holding similar talks with a bipartisan congressional delegation in recent weeks.

The federal government hit its current debt ceiling limit of roughly $14.3 trillion on May 16. Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner has indicated he can keep the country out of default until August 2, but warned of potentially devastating financial consequences after that point.

Numerous analysts say that a failure to reach an agreement raising the debt limit could lead to skyrocketing interest rates, a plummeting dollar and a higher cost of living for most Americans.

House rejects debt ceiling increase, 318-97 - CNN.com

This is going to be exciting!

I think Republicans are playing with fire.

Now I'm not an economic expert, I don't really fully comprehend the gravity of not raising the debt ceiling, but if analysts are correct in their assessment, then Republicans could hand the democrats next year on a silver platter.

Spending does have to be cut, but token spending cuts like the ones we saw before the last budget agreements are merely cutting the tail off the fish, if all you're cutting is discretionary spending, the fish needs to be gutted to the bone, I.E. serious looks at Medicare, medicaid, SS and Defence, none of the spending cuts likely to come out of a deal, if any is made, will mean anything in the long term.
 
House rejects debt ceiling increase, 318-97 - CNN.com

This is going to be exciting!

I think Republicans are playing with fire.

Now I'm not an economic expert, I don't really fully comprehend the gravity of not raising the debt ceiling, but if analysts are correct in their assessment, then Republicans could hand the democrats next year on a silver platter.

Spending does have to be cut, but token spending cuts like the ones we saw before the last budget agreements are merely cutting the tail off the fish, if all you're cutting is discretionary spending, the fish needs to be gutted to the bone, I.E. serious looks at Medicare, medicaid, SS and Defence, none of the spending cuts likely to come out of a deal, if any is made, will mean anything in the long term.
yep, everything will have to be on the table, not just what repubs want to pick and choose
 
Wow, that's kind of cool. What's the point of having a debt ceiling if you are gonna raise it at will?
 
This vote was mainly for symbolism. It was intended to strengthen the bargaining leverage of Republican House members who will be meeting with the President today on the debt ceiling. However, because the outcome was already widely anticipated, the vote won't really have a meaningful impact on who possesses what leverage. Negotiations on the terms of a debt ceiling increase continue.
 
yep, everything will have to be on the table, not just what repubs both sides want to pick and choose

Fixed it for you.

Reforming and making cuts to Medicare/caid and Social Security is just as if not more important than cutting Defense.

Almost 2/3rds of our Budget go to those three things, focusing the cuts on only 1/3rd of what makes up that 2/3rds chunk is ridiculous. Its no only republicans trying to pick and choose.

We need substantial reduction across the board, entitlements, defense, subsidies, research, payroll, everything. On that I agree with Jet.

I also think that if we start seeing this hurt the Republicans expect to see the quote and clips of Obama saying the same thing about the Debt Limit when he was in congress played routinely to highlight the hypocratic notion of him and others acting like this notion by the Republicans is somehow some kind of new hyper partisan rhetoric rather than no different than what the Person whose now saying "raise the debt cieling" argued for when he was the one required to do it.
 
Fixed it for you.

Reforming and making cuts to Medicare/caid and Social Security is just as if not more important than cutting Defense.

Almost 2/3rds of our Budget go to those three things, focusing the cuts on only 1/3rd of what makes up that 2/3rds chunk is ridiculous. Its no only republicans trying to pick and choose.

We need substantial reduction across the board, entitlements, defense, subsidies, research, payroll, everything. On that I agree with Jet.

I also think that if we start seeing this hurt the Republicans expect to see the quote and clips of Obama saying the same thing about the Debt Limit when he was in congress played routinely to highlight the hypocratic notion of him and others acting like this notion by the Republicans is somehow some kind of new hyper partisan rhetoric rather than no different than what the Person whose now saying "raise the debt cieling" argued for when he was the one required to do it.

Yeah ole Barack voted against raising the debt ceiling didn't he?
 
I think Republicans are playing with fire.

44% of nancy's and steny's caucus voted with dave camp

just seven weeks ago hurryup harry demanded this precise raising of the roof thru november, 2012, with no restrictions

reps and senators simply cannot return to their districts having voted to extend credit to this profligate parliament sans protections

stay tuned
 
House rejects debt ceiling increase, 318-97 - CNN.com

This is going to be exciting!

I think Republicans are playing with fire.

Now I'm not an economic expert, I don't really fully comprehend the gravity of not raising the debt ceiling, but if analysts are correct in their assessment, then Republicans could hand the democrats next year on a silver platter.

Spending does have to be cut, but token spending cuts like the ones we saw before the last budget agreements are merely cutting the tail off the fish, if all you're cutting is discretionary spending, the fish needs to be gutted to the bone, I.E. serious looks at Medicare, medicaid, SS and Defence, none of the spending cuts likely to come out of a deal, if any is made, will mean anything in the long term.


This is a good thing. The more and more the debt ceiling is raised the more we go into debt. Serious cuts should be made.
 
House rejects debt ceiling increase, 318-97 - CNN.com

This is going to be exciting!

I think Republicans are playing with fire.

Now I'm not an economic expert, I don't really fully comprehend the gravity of not raising the debt ceiling, but if analysts are correct in their assessment, then Republicans could hand the democrats next year on a silver platter.

Spending does have to be cut, but token spending cuts like the ones we saw before the last budget agreements are merely cutting the tail off the fish, if all you're cutting is discretionary spending, the fish needs to be gutted to the bone, I.E. serious looks at Medicare, medicaid, SS and Defence, none of the spending cuts likely to come out of a deal, if any is made, will mean anything in the long term.

I'm not too clear on all the implications of this, but I'm not even fully certain that... Though it seems that's about one of those things that suggests that the government is broke.

I'm not entirely certain that the government has much true control over the debt ceiling... I wager it's the federal reserve that has the greater influence.

I think it's a good thing, I mean, at a certain point the status quo is going to have to come to an end... I figure it's better to go through the process on our own terms as opposed to waiting for the system to collapse suddenly.
 
I say make an agreement to cut welfare, medicaid, and foodstamps by 20% over the next 5 years. Make this cut mandatory, but also make it contingent upon true reformations of the program.

Slowly convert all welfare programs over to work-to-play programs that require the recipients to either attend trade classes (at no cost) or volunteer in trade positions where knowledge gained can be used for future employment. Withhold payments when requirements aren't met.

For medicaid, revise recipient contributions based on means testing. Have a sliding scale of co-pay requirements, with no deductible. Provide incentives (discounted co-pays, bonus pay-outs) for patients who avoid the ER and utilized PCPs instead.

For medicare, do much of the same. Another poster suggested making BigPharm bid for the opportunity to be the primary perscription provider for specific medications. Do this for both healthcare programs. Provide no incentives for being the winning bidder (i.e. tax cuts or credits).

Food stamps become more complicated. Cut the amount recipients receive by 10%, work out discounts on fresh, healthy foods (fruits/veggies/healthy meats) and charge taxes on unhealthy choices equal to but not exceeding the local sales tax rate.

Cut defense a minimum of 20%. Reduce troop sizes in foreign, non-combatant countries. Review and eliminate all wasteful defense contracts (including mercinary forces and equipment manufacturing).

Sell off unused property, shop for lower-rent properties for necessary buildings.

Remove redundant, out-dated, or unnecessary departments.

50% reduction in annual pay raises, or a law mandating that pay raises not exceed the rate of inflation.

Use low-security, non-violent criminals for labor to maintain government lands and facilities, offer reduced sentencing options or job placement aid for those criminals who qualify and who voluntarily join these labor groups.

Cut all subsidies for corn, wheat, soybeans, and oil. Cut or reduce all other subsidies, as well.

Require a super majority vote for all spending on "pork" or "pet projects".

Require government employees to contribute to pension and healthcare services. Those leaving government work may keep their pensions, but should lose healthcare benefits.

That's just a start...
 
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First step in the right direction. Plus it put many democrats in a tough spot. Either be on the side of increased debt and no spending cuts or on the side of the public in general.
 
I say make an agreement to cut welfare, medicaid, and foodstamps by 20% over the next 5 years. Make this cut mandatory, but also make it contingent upon true reformations of the program.

Slowly convert all welfare programs over to work-to-play programs that require the recipients to either attend trade classes (at no cost) or volunteer in trade positions where knowledge gained can be used for future employment. Withhold payments when requirements aren't met.

For medicaid, revise recipient contributions based on means testing. Have a sliding scale of co-pay requirements, with no deductible. Provide incentives (discounted co-pays, bonus pay-outs) for patients who avoid the ER and utilized PCPs instead.

For medicare, do much of the same. Another poster suggested making BigPharm bid for the opportunity to be the primary perscription provider for specific medications. Do this for both healthcare programs. Provide no incentives for being the winning bidder (i.e. tax cuts or credits).

Food stamps become more complicated. Cut the amount recipients receive by 10%, work out discounts on fresh, healthy foods (fruits/veggies/healthy meats) and charge taxes on unhealthy choices equal to but not exceeding the local sales tax rate.

Cut defense a minimum of 20%. Reduce troop sizes in foreign, non-combatant countries. Review and eliminate all wasteful defense contracts (including mercinary forces and equipment manufacturing).

Sell off unused property, shop for lower-rent properties for necessary buildings.

Remove redundant, out-dated, or unnecessary departments.

50% reduction in annual pay raises, or a law mandating that pay raises not exceed the rate of inflation.

Use low-security, non-violent criminals for labor to maintain government lands and facilities, offer reduced sentencing options or job placement aid for those criminals who qualify and who voluntarily join these labor groups.

Cut all subsidies for corn, wheat, soybeans, and oil. Cut or reduce all other subsidies, as well.

Require a super majority vote for all spending on "pork" or "pet projects".

Require government employees to contribute to pension and healthcare services. Those leaving government work may keep their pensions, but should lose healthcare benefits.

That's just a start...

Sounds good, but not sure. Pay raises are already frozen, and never exceed inflation anyway. Retired federal employees don't get health benefits beyond Medicare.
 
Sounds good, but not sure. Pay raises are already frozen, and never exceed inflation anyway. Retired federal employees don't get health benefits beyond Medicare.

Pay raises are frozen for now, and they've experienced raises above inflation..at least the legislature and president have.

One other thing...Create a pay cap for positions within the government. Like, a Czar can only make x-amount, a senator caps at x-amount, etc.
 
The ones looking bad here are the Dems. They demanded this vote, and then had a bunch of Dem's vote it down. It weakens Obama's political capital on this matter greatly.
 
Pay raises are frozen for now, and they've experienced raises above inflation..at least the legislature and president have.

One other thing...Create a pay cap for positions within the government. Like, a Czar can only make x-amount, a senator caps at x-amount, etc.

When speaking of pay raises, it is usually understood to mean federal employees who make up the majority of employment. Elected official are in a category all their own, and are under their own control. I know it's easy to make broad statements about pay, because it is emotionally charged. The pay freeze is in effect because of the budget situation. No one makes more than the President. Congress makes it's own rules.
 
yes, it weakens the president's political capital on this greatly

the party in power is capitulating

there WILL be significant cuts as well as substantial structural reforms in conjunction with the inevitable raising of the roof

stay tuned
 
Wow, that's kind of cool. What's the point of having a debt ceiling if you are gonna raise it at will?

Market stability.

So far, the market is down 150 points already. We'll see where it goes.

___

At last check, down 190 points.

___

Down 220. Hmm...
 
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Spending does have to be cut, but token spending cuts like the ones we saw before the last budget agreements are merely cutting the tail off the fish, if all you're cutting is discretionary spending, the fish needs to be gutted to the bone, I.E. serious looks at Medicare, medicaid, SS and Defence, none of the spending cuts likely to come out of a deal, if any is made, will mean anything in the long term.
You know that Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are not discretionary, amount to 217% of defense spending and 115% of total discretionary spending.
Right?
(FY2009 numbers)
 
The ones looking bad here are the Dems. They demanded this vote, and then had a bunch of Dem's vote it down. It weakens Obama's political capital on this matter greatly.

So, if the markets continue to tank due to this vote, do you still think it will more negatively affect Democrats instead of Republicans?

So far, we're down 220 points - and analysts are going to say it's because of default concerns over the vote not to raise the debt ceiling. It does have to do with other numbers, but it's still dangerous.
 
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You know that Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are not discretionary, amount to 217% of defense spending and 115% of total discretionary spending.
Right?
(FY2009 numbers)

Whats your point?

I'm saying those things are the problem, but defense must be looked at too...
 
Whats your point?
I'm saying those things are the problem, but defense must be looked at too...
While I am sure that defense sepnding can be cut to some degree, given how much entitlement spending exceeds defense spending (as demonstrated), the only way to effectively address spending is to slash entiltements.
 
So, if the markets continue to tank due to this vote, do you still think it will more negatively affect Democrats instead of Republicans?
So far, we're down 220 points - and analysts are going to say it's because of default concerns over the vote not to raise the debt ceiling.
Sometimes you have to roll the hard six.
Long term, one of the best things that can happen is for the US to not take on any more debt.
 
jeez, I wish I could vote myself a debt ceiling. this year I can spend 20% more than what I make.

the truely sad/scarey part is that our country is so deep in debt and jacked up that we actually have to consider the issue of a "debt ceiling"
 
No joke and have other people pay for it.
Would be wicked.

yeah, congress has it made. bastards. vote yourself a pay raise, vote yourself a debt ceiling, serve 4 measely years and then draw a retirement for life. no wonder it draws lazy scumbags
 
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