Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Case'

From Fox News:

Republicans lawmakers are stepping up pressure on the Obama administration to craft a Plan B just in case budget talks fall through and the debt ceiling remains frozen past the Aug. 2 deadline Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner has set.

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Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling, 'Just in Case' - FoxNews.com

IMO, the White House should reject such a request (even as it should have a contingency plan in place for such a scenario). Accepting the request would be bad negotiating strategy. In general, if a party is asked for its "fallback position," once that position is made public, the "fallback position" becomes the new focus of negotiations.

In the case of the current negotiations, the White House's accommodating the request would take away some of the uncertainty that exists with respect to failure to reach agreement. As such, it would take away some of the pressure to compromise to reach agreement. In turn, that reduced pressure would increase the risks of a failure to reach agreement.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

Obama need to admit his proposals have not worked up to now and it's time for him to take another direction.


But Obama can do no wrong so that will never happen

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

I think it's a little silly to say 'gee, you should have a fall back plan just in case the negotiations fall through'.

That looks like the GOP is telegraphing their punch.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

What is annoying to me is how heavy both have played politics. They all know this **** will get done when it really matters. They aren't all that stupid afterall....are they?

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

JohnWOlin said:

What is annoying to me is how heavy both have played politics. They all know this **** will get done when it really matters. They aren't all that stupid afterall....are they?

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Of course they're that stupid. Climate deniers and sock puppets, no thinking required.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

Whovian said:

I think it's a little silly to say 'gee, you should have a fall back plan just in case the negotiations fall through'.

That looks like the GOP is telegraphing their punch.

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Or like asking your poker opponent to play with their hand facing up.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

This is bull****. I truly can't believe the Republicans are even THINKING about not raising the debt ceiling. When you hear various senators telling the press that we wouldn't default if the debt ceiling wasn't raised, or that we could still pay our creditors first, or that it wouldn't be so bad if we DID default, it makes it much harder to walk back from the brink.

Even if they reach a deal, it creates more uncertainty for the NEXT time the debt ceiling needs to be raised. It makes a default on our sovereign debt, which Ronald Reagan described as unthinkable, thinkable. We should get rid of the debt ceiling altogether. It is among the stupidest constructs of our legislature to date, and that's really saying a lot. No other country (that I'm aware of) takes on debt, and then calls a vote every year or so to decide whether or not to pay its debt.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

donsutherland1 said:

From Fox News:



Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling, 'Just in Case' - FoxNews.com

IMO, the White House should reject such a request (even as it should have a contingency plan in place for such a scenario). Accepting the request would be bad negotiating strategy. In general, if a party is asked for its "fallback position," once that position is made public, the "fallback position" becomes the new focus of negotiations.

In the case of the current negotiations, the White House's accommodating the request would take away some of the uncertainty that exists with respect to failure to reach agreement. As such, it would take away some of the pressure to compromise to reach agreement. In turn, that reduced pressure would increase the risks of a failure to reach agreement.

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I always agree with you, DonSutherland. Really. Always.

But not here. Example: I''m a realtor. Sometimes someone is selling their house by-owner and thus is face-to-face negotiating with the buyer, when the buyer says, "What's your bottom number for selling this house?" If that seller actually gives his bottom line, he's an idiot. Why? Because that "bottom number" becomes the new "highest price" and....well....let the games begin.

If I have a 1% by-owner agreement (house not listed, but I'm advising my client), I'm telling my client, "Never give your bottom number. That's the new negotiating point." So he pads it, if he listens, and the deal's often done.

Surely our president is as smart as a by-owner. Why let Obama off the hook? He wants to be unscathed in this congressional battle because he's up for election next year. Step up, President Obama. Let's hear what you have to say.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

MaggieD said:

But not here. Example: I''m a realtor. Sometimes someone is selling their house by-owner and thus is face-to-face negotiating with the buyer, when the buyer says, "What's your bottom number for selling this house?" If that seller actually gives his bottom line, he's an idiot. Why? Because that "bottom number" becomes the new "highest price" and....well....let the games begin.

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That's what I'm saying. The contingency plan would be the WH's bottom line. I'm suggesting that the WH not provide it.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

donsutherland1 said:

That's what I'm saying. The contingency plan would be the WH's bottom line. I'm suggesting that the WH not provide it.

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Yes, I read it and understand we're saying "almost" the same thing. But I'm going on to say that the President should provide something.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

MaggieD said:

Yes, I read it and understand we're saying "almost" the same thing. But I'm going on to say that the President should provide something.

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I suspect the both sides know that the choices would be stark were the government to have to balance its budget immediately. For example, if the federal government chose to prioritize spending so as to pay Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and interest on the debt, only about $200 billion would remain for all other programs/services. The choices would be stark

For what it is worth, in 1982 there was a standoff on raising the debt ceiling. President Reagan initiated a “very confidential planning exercise” to prioritize spending. Details as to priorities were not disclosed, so as to maximize the Administration's leverage.

My guess is that if a contingency plan were outlined, then the battle would shift not to the extent and path to debt reduction in exchange for a debt ceiling hike, but to a battle over spending priorities in the contingency plan. At the same time, knowledge of such details would reduce the incentive to reach an agreement to avert a possible default/wrenching spending choices.

At the same time, I don't believe the Republicans should give away their bottom line too easily. If, for example, they have no intention of dragging things beyond August 2, even if no agreement on significant spending reductions is achieved, they should not disclose that. Otherwise, they will lock themselves into a situation where they will gain much less than might otherwise have been the case.

In any case, I still believe some kind of agreement is more likely than no agreement. I also suspect that the really tough choices will be postponed in favor of goals for which policy specifics have yet to be devised. Somewhat broad language will likely also be used e.g., there might be agreement that tax reform would be examined in the future. Republicans would continue to assert that the deal did not raise taxes. Democrats would assert that the language does not fully preclude revenue-enhancing measures. But the exact specifics that would clarify what would be deliberate ambiguity would be left to be resolved after the 2012 election.

Finally, I do believe the Republican request provides some possible insight into the Republican position. It could reflect the possibility that the Republican Leadership is concerned that a significant base of Republicans may not accept the likely parameters of a deal, hence they want to become better informed as to alternatives. It could also be a ploy to maximize leverage by making it appear that the Republicans are serious that they won't accept a deal they don't believe is adequate. Indeed, one should not be too surprised if some prominent Republicans announce that they are leaning against approving a debt ceiling increase in the weeks ahead to step up the pressure on the White House. My guess is that there is a combination of both factors at play. Of course, serious risks are involved. If the financial markets begin to expect a realistic risk of an impasse, things could begin to get out of hand.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

MaggieD said:

Yes, I read it and understand we're saying "almost" the same thing. But I'm going on to say that the President should provide something.

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Good luck with that, look at the mans history.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

Something's gotta happen. People are so busy trying to win an election 16 months away that they aren't focusing on what needs to be done right now. It's disgusting that they're so concerned about keeping their jobs yet they aren't doing them.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

tessaesque said:

Something's gotta happen. People are so busy trying to win an election 16 months away that they aren't focusing on what needs to be done right now. It's disgusting that they're so concerned about keeping their jobs yet they aren't doing them.

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Term limits in this country suck. Make it to where you can only be elected to a certain position once, and I think it will help alot. Force people to actually do something with their time, and make it so that politicians isn't a job title, but more akin to a public service, like it's supposed to be.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

Your Star said:

Term limits in this country suck. Make it to where you can only be elected to a certain position once, and I think it will help alot. Force people to actually do something with their time, and make it so that politicians isn't a job title, but more akin to a public service, like it's supposed to be.

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You won't hear any complaints from me on that one.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

Fallback position:
Declare victory in Afganistan, Iraq, and Libya and go home.
Bring home all of the soldiers stationed overseas.
End all subsidies, oil, agriculture, all of them.
furlough all federal employees not absolutely necessary for national security.
Go back to the tax rates that prevailed back in '79.
Close down most federal departments, starting with the Department of Education.

There. That should help bring the budget back into balance.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

Dittohead not! said:

Fallback position:
Declare victory in Afganistan, Iraq, and Libya and go home.
Bring home all of the soldiers stationed overseas.
End all subsidies, oil, agriculture, all of them.
furlough all federal employees not absolutely necessary for national security.
Go back to the tax rates that prevailed back in '79.
Close down most federal departments, starting with the Department of Education.

There. That should help bring the budget back into balance.

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Not even close.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

Kandahar said:

Even if they reach a deal, it creates more uncertainty for the NEXT time the debt ceiling needs to be raised.

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vote democrat---don't create more uncertainty for the next raising of the ceiling?

that's the problem

exactly what is the dem's position on the budget, the administration's, senator reid's?

in times like these?

boehner next week is gonna put the progressive's prettiest plan on his carpet---a clean heft of 2.4T, enough to get thru NOVEMBER, 2012

THAT's the president's prime priority---his campaign

Republicans plan symbolic vote on debt ceiling - Jake Sherman - POLITICO.com

anyway, just how many house dems are gonna vote for this massive extension of credit to the fiscally challenged, no encumbrances?

not many, i expect

in fact, the smartest move for pelosi and hoyer and clyburn and steve israel is to rally the caucus 100% AGAINST

ie, kill the symbolism

we'll see

virtually every republican is clear---we will NOT raise the roof UNLESS there are significant FIXES

no uncertainty, there

is that spin?

have a wonderful holiday weekend, all

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

donsutherland1 said:

From Fox News:



Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling, 'Just in Case' - FoxNews.com

IMO, the White House should reject such a request (even as it should have a contingency plan in place for such a scenario). Accepting the request would be bad negotiating strategy. In general, if a party is asked for its "fallback position," once that position is made public, the "fallback position" becomes the new focus of negotiations.

In the case of the current negotiations, the White House's accommodating the request would take away some of the uncertainty that exists with respect to failure to reach agreement. As such, it would take away some of the pressure to compromise to reach agreement. In turn, that reduced pressure would increase the risks of a failure to reach agreement.

Click to expand...

I think the fall back plan should be is to make the troops are still paid during a government shut down. Screw raising the debt ceiling, it just allows the government IE we the tax payers to go further into debt.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

Councilman said:

Obama need to admit his proposals have not worked up to now and it's time for him to take another direction.


But Obama can do no wrong so that will never happen

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Exactly which proposals have not worked?

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

The Prof said:

vote democrat---don't create more uncertainty for the next raising of the ceiling?

that's the problem

exactly what is the dem's position on the budget, the administration's, senator reid's?

Click to expand...

The problem is that this is NOT a vote on the budget. We already had that, and Congress agreed to a certain level of taxes and a certain level of expenditures. Congress signed it into law, knowingly that we would acquire some debt as a result. You can like it or dislike it, but Congress already approved it. To vote to spend money that we don't have, and THEN vote to not pay our debts is the height of fiscal irresponsibility.

I understand the desire to get our debt under control, but the debt ceiling is not the place to have that debate. You don't vote to stop paying our debts just because you don't like the budget. You work to change the budget for the next year, and/or revise our entitlement programs, and/or revise our tax code.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

Kandahar said:

The problem is that this is NOT a vote on the budget. We already had that, and Congress agreed to a certain level of taxes and a certain level of expenditures. Congress signed it into law, knowingly that we would acquire some debt as a result.

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Actually, they didn't. Rather than voting on a budget for 2011, they sidestepped the issue by "deeming it passed". No bill was voted on, no reconciliation with the House Budget, no signature from the President. You see, none of the Democrats wanted to have to go into the Sept. 2010 election with a huge budget deficit for the Republicans to tie around their necks. So they took a page from Obama's play book and voted "Present", then skipped the whole bloody mess.

Also, just a little remedial civics lesson, Congress does not sign anything into law. They vote on legislation which then gets passed to the President to sign into law.

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

1 Easy Target said:

Actually, they didn't. Rather than voting on a budget for 2011, they sidestepped the issue by "deeming it passed". No bill was voted on, no reconciliation with the House Budget, no signature from the President.

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The point is that a budget already passed, according to the rules and procedures of our Congress. For them to now declare that they aren't going to pay back the money that they've already agreed to borrow is the height of hypocrisy and irresponsibility.

1 Easy Target said:

Also, just a little remedial civics lesson, Congress does not sign anything into law. They vote on legislation which then gets passed to the President to sign into law.

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Instead of nitpicking my words, perhaps you'd care to actually discuss the debt ceiling. You know, the subject of this thread. :roll:

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

donsutherland1 said:

Finally, I do believe the Republican request provides some possible insight into the Republican position. It could reflect the possibility that the Republican Leadership is concerned that a significant base of Republicans may not accept the likely parameters of a deal, hence they want to become better informed as to alternatives. It could also be a ploy to maximize leverage by making it appear that the Republicans are serious that they won't accept a deal they don't believe is adequate. Indeed, one should not be too surprised if some prominent Republicans announce that they are leaning against approving a debt ceiling increase in the weeks ahead to step up the pressure on the White House. My guess is that there is a combination of both factors at play. Of course, serious risks are involved. If the financial markets begin to expect a realistic risk of an impasse, things could begin to get out of hand.

Click to expand...

Frankly, I don't think the Republicans are serious about raising the debt limit currently because doing so too soon would give more leverage to President Obama, and why in the world would they do that when they're trying harder to get him out of the White House than they are at moving the country forward. Let's look at the facts:

Republicans complained loudly and often from 2009-2010 that the Democrats focused more on health care reform and unemployment benefits than they did on job creation. But what have Republicans done since they regain the majority in the House? Trying to repeal health care reform, try to stall the budget process which almost closed down the government...again, pedal Paul Ryan's Medicare reform bill and continue to delay raising the debt ceiling all the while steering Republican governors to destroy public unions, take away public employee benefits and restructure state budgets on the backs of public servants, thereby sending more people into unemployment. When you add it all up over these last five months Republican's focus has been less on jobs and more on - everything else. In short, they're doing the exact same thing they accused Democrats of doing while at the same time being as obstructionist as possible.

I don't expect them to do anything unless and until it becomes clear that their methods aren't having the desired affect(s) and it becomes clear that the People don't support their actions. That's the only way they'll stop! (Okay, not really, but we can still hope they'll start to compromise more sooner rather than later.)

Re: Republicans Urge Obama Administration to Draft Plan B on Debt Ceiling 'Just in Ca

CriticalThought said:

Exactly which proposals have not worked?

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Barack Obama's Stimulus Plan: Failing by Its Own Measure - TIME

Obama: "No Such Thing as Shovel-Ready Projects" - Political Hotsheet - CBS News