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Intelligent Fantasy

Caedon

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For those of you who are fantasy fans, you will know what I mean. Most fantasy is simple drivel, a cheap knockoff of Tolkien, often replete with plot holes roughly the size of the author's ego.

That being said, I have found a few decent authors. One that I've read quite a bit of in the past year is Steven Erikson. His Malazan Book of the Fallen series is excellent, although particularly dense. The only negative that I've seen is that I don't think he proofs his writing much - some of his sentences have just horrible structure and are overly obtuse.
 
I have all the Fantasy I need in my mind, take a look at the thread in Sportstalk Blanka Vlasic wins High Jump Gold, tune in and turn on:)
 
For genearlly lighthearted fantasy that dives into deep waters unexpectedly, it's hard to beat Terry Pratchet's Discworld series.

Discworld extracts

On a vampire who has turned into a bat in order to spy on a couple of old women, but tragically forgot to take into account a vital aspect of the local environment:
Vampires have risen from the dead, the grave and the crypt, but have never managed it from the cat.
On the nature of Darkness:
Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it's wrong. No matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.
On the philosophy of witches:
'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.'
On Psychology:
Granny Weatherwax had never heard of psychology and would have no truck with it even if she had. There are some arts too black even for a witch.
On Atheism:
Besides, when you hit your thumb with an eight-pound hammer it's nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a very special and strong minded kind of atheist to jump up and down with their hand clasped under their other armpit and shout, 'Oh, random-fluctuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!' or 'Aaargh, primitive-and-out-moded-concept on a crutch!'
Folk wisdom:
Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.
More cat stuff:
Nanny Ogg also kept a cat, a huge one-eyed gray tom called Greebo who . . . opened his eye like a yellow window into Hell.
And of course, quotes from “Good Old Bill Door” (who always speaks in capitals):
IT'S BECAUSE OF THE UNCERTAINITY PRINCIPLE.
'What's that?'
I'M NOT SURE.
---
THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS JUST US.
---
'Are you Death?'
IT'S THE SCYTHE, ISN'T IT? PEOPLE ALWAYS NOTICE THE SCYTHE.
Finaly, a personal favorite, Granny Weatherwax, a “Good Witch” has a decades-delayed confrontation with her evil sister Lily, as we learn that witches apparently come in pairs – a good one and a bad one:
Granny stepped forward, her eyes two sapphires of bitterness.

"I'm goin' to give you the hidin' our Mam never gave you, Lily Weatherwax. Not with magic, not with headology, not with a stick like our Dad had, aye, and used a fair bit as I recall - but with skin. And not because you was the bad one. Not because you meddled with stories. Everyone has a path they got to tread. But because, and I wants you to understand this prop'ly, after you went I had to be the good one. You had all the fun. An' there's no way I can make you pay for that Lily, but I'm surely goin' to give it a try."
 
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If you like intelligent fantasy, I'll let you know when my first book is published. Soon I hope.
 
Has it got pic of female pole vaulter in it Gashers?
 
I enjoy Glen Cook's fantasy serieses, both the Black Company books, and the Garrett series. Both are fantasy with a different mood, the Black Company books being military fiction with a strong understanding how soldiers talk and react to each other, and the Garrett books being hard boiled detective novels in a fantasy setting.

Lois McMaster Bujold has done some very intelligent fantasy, with a strong understanding of what life is really like in a medieval setting, and her usual strong compelling characters.

Tannith Lee did some dark fantasy early in her career, and there is no author more capable of creating mood in their writing. Later she did some juvenile fantasy(the Unicorn series), which have a delightful sense of humor.
 
Orson Scott Card's Alvin Maker series is also pretty solid. He usually focuses on the moral and ethical dilemmas his characters face and offers an interesting perspective into things.

And you simply cannot beat Stephen R. Donaldson's "Thomas Covenant" series for intelligent fantasy.
 
I've read Cook, OSC, and Donaldson. All good stuff.
 
The biggest mistake many fantasy writers make, IMO, is to load up the introductory sections with WAY too much mythology that a person just isn't ready to take in quite yet. It's like they are trying to establish the world in one fell swoop rather than letting the telling of the story do so. When too much is explained and too little left for inference, I get bored as all get up.

If you wanted to extend your scope into s.f. instead of strictly fantasy, though, I might suggest the Hyperion series by Dan Simmons. First rate stuff.
 
If you wanted to extend your scope into s.f. instead of strictly fantasy, though, I might suggest the Hyperion series by Dan Simmons. First rate stuff.

I hated Hyperion. It felt way too forced, like it wanted to be highbrow, instead of just being highbrow.
 
The biggest mistake many fantasy writers make, IMO, is to load up the introductory sections with WAY too much mythology that a person just isn't ready to take in quite yet. It's like they are trying to establish the world in one fell swoop rather than letting the telling of the story do so. When too much is explained and too little left for inference, I get bored as all get up.

If you wanted to extend your scope into s.f. instead of strictly fantasy, though, I might suggest the Hyperion series by Dan Simmons. First rate stuff.

That's what I liked about Erikson's stuff. He and a buddy actually designed the world as a tabletop gaming universe. Then, they decided to try their hand at writing it.

He doesn't do the whole "convenient explanation of everything about the world via a old wise character" routine. He drops you straight in the world and lets you swim on your own. For over half of the first book, I had no idea what was going on. It was interesting, though.
 
Orson Scott Card's Alvin Maker series is also pretty solid. He usually focuses on the moral and ethical dilemmas his characters face and offers an interesting perspective into things.

And you simply cannot beat Stephen R. Donaldson's "Thomas Covenant" series for intelligent fantasy.

I loved Card as a kid for Ender's Game. Then I got older, and I started reading more of his stuff, and I stopped reading him when I realized how much he slaps you in the face with his Mormon Religion. The ending of The Worthing Saga is proof of this.

As far as fantasy goes, I can't recomend Steven Brust's Jhereg series enough. Imagine if you put Lord of the Rings and The Godfather in a blender. It's that awesome.
 
For genearlly lighthearted fantasy that dives into deep waters unexpectedly, it's hard to beat Terry Pratchet's Discworld series.

This is from a book about saving christmas, more or less...




TRICKERY WITH WORDS IS WHERE HUMANS LIVE.

'All right,' said Susan. 'I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable.

REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.

'Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little...

YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.

'So we can believe the big ones?

YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.

'They're not the same at all!

THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET-- AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME... SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.

'Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point...

MY POINT EXACTLY
 
This is from a book about saving christmas, more or less...




TRICKERY WITH WORDS IS WHERE HUMANS LIVE.

'All right,' said Susan. 'I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable.

REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.

'Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little...

YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.

'So we can believe the big ones?

YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.

'They're not the same at all!

THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET-- AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME... SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.

'Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point...

MY POINT EXACTLY

Have you seen the movie version of Hogfather?
 
Have you seen the movie version of Hogfather?


Hogfather and The Color of Magic. IMHO they were Ok, the imagery was pretty good, some of the acting was decent and some sucked, but on the whole the movies so far just don't compare to the books.
 
Hogfather and The Color of Magic. IMHO they were Ok, the imagery was pretty good, some of the acting was decent and some sucked, but on the whole the movies so far just don't compare to the books.

I have not seen Color of Magic, but I really liked the Hogfather movie. The changes where minimal and they did a fair job of catching the magic of the series. It had it's disappointments, such as the guy who played Nobby Nobbs was not what I would have hoped, but overall I liked it, especially the woman who played Susan, who looked the part and was a decent actress.
 
I have not seen Color of Magic, but I really liked the Hogfather movie. The changes where minimal and they did a fair job of catching the magic of the series. It had it's disappointments, such as the guy who played Nobby Nobbs was not what I would have hoped, but overall I liked it, especially the woman who played Susan, who looked the part and was a decent actress.

Yeah, Susan was perfect.
 
Yeah, Susan was perfect.

My brother came over when I was watching it, and his first words where "who the hell is that and is she married?"
 
My brother came over when I was watching it, and his first words where "who the hell is that and is she married?"

Whoever that was (forgot actress' name), nailed that character right to a T; she had the ability to "project presence" in a way few actresses can. She was so very Susan that now when I read another book it's her image and voice I imagine when reading about Susan.
 
Whoever that was (forgot actress' name), nailed that character right to a T; she had the ability to "project presence" in a way few actresses can. She was so very Susan that now when I read another book it's her image and voice I imagine when reading about Susan.

She is like my second favorite character of the series, behind only Nanny Ogg.
 
The whole COM movie is worth watching to see Jeremy Irons as Vetinari.

Here is the "predatory flamingo," himself:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEKnVU3cNfw"]YouTube - Discworld - Patrician and WUFFLES!![/ame]
 
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Have you seen the movie version of Hogfather?

Loved it. To be honest, in some ways I liked it better. Teatime didn't really impress me in the book, but I loved him in the movie. I thought it was very well done. I actually used that movie to get my (ex)girlfriend into discworld.
 
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