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Fox News viewers overwhelmingly misinformed about health care reform proposals.

Devil said:
Have you read the plan?

Does it include coverage for people with pre-exisitng medical problems?
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After all of what I said, you only responded to that? Read the articles I provided. Find out for yourself.

This was the original statement of yours that I responded to:
The other side wants to kill any HC reform
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That is incorrect, as the "other side" has a healthcare reform bill too. The fact that the media ignores it does not mean it doesn't exist.
My purpose of giving you the plan was not to support it, it was simply to say that the GOP was not just saying "no" and actually does have an alternative plan. You lost this argument. I completely debunked your false claim that the GOP has no alternative plan. I see no further need for discussion.
 
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Lakryte said:
After all of what I said, you only responded to that? Read the articles I provided. Find out for yourself.

This was the original statement of yours that I responded to:

That is incorrect, as the "other side" has a healthcare reform bill too. The fact that the media ignores it does not mean it doesn't exist.
My purpose of giving you the plan was not to support it, it was simply to say that the GOP was not just saying "no" and actually does have an alternative plan. You lost this argument. I completely debunked your false claim that the GOP has no alternative plan. I see no further need for discussion.
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The GOP wants to kill any HC reform to "Break" Obama. Listen to the only honest GOP Senator...Jim DeMint.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHV4nDS501Y"]YouTube - Sen. Jim DeMint calls defeating Obama like Waterloo[/ame]
Type all the Fairy Tales you want but we American voters Know the truth & threw most of you guys out of Washington last November for good reason..,..Next year we'll get rid of even more of you.:2wave:
 
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Devil505 said:
The GOP wants to kill any HC reform to "Break" Obama. Listen to the only honest GOP Senator...Jim DeMint.

YouTube - Sen. Jim DeMint calls defeating Obama like Waterloo
Type all the Fairy Tales you want but we American voters Know the truth & threw most of you guys out of Washington last November for good reason..,..Next year we'll get rid of even more of you.:2wave:
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You don't even have the patience to watch a 14 second video? If you watched it you'd know that he didn't say what you claimed he said. He never said he wanted to kill "any" reform and he didn't use any similar words. That was the point that you guys were debating. You just cut your own throat.
 
Devil said:
The GOP wants to kill any HC reform to "Break" Obama. Listen to the only honest GOP Senator...Jim DeMint.
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First of all, you cannot say that Republicans want to kill any healthcare reform when they have a healthcare reform bill. That is idiotic. Healthcare reform does not mean only the reform Obama and Democrats want. Hence, the Republicans have their own reform bill. You cannot deny that, it is fact. Would you like me to link you to the bill page again?

Second of all: That video does not say the GOP wants to kill healthcare reform...so FAIL. It said that the GOP wants to stop Obama's idea of healthcare from happening (government involvement), and believes that if Obama doesn't pass HIS idea of reform his presidency will be broken. I believe that to be correct.

I don't think the strongest pair of pliers in the world could open you mind.

Devil said:
Type all the Fairy Tales you want but we American voters Know the truth & threw most of you guys out of Washington last November for good reason.
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"you guys"? Er...I'm not Republican, fyi. Who is spinning fairy tales now? This is your problem. You automatically make assumptions and then refuse to admit they were wrong even when there is incontrovertible evidence that your assumptions were false.

Devil said:
Next year we'll get rid of even more of you.
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More of me? You can't get rid of me, sorry. And with the sheer arrogance you are displaying right now, you fail to notice that according to the polls, independents have switched their trust in parties back to the Republicans over Democrats on most issues.
Poll: Voters Trust GOP over Dems on 8 of 10 Key Issues - fox29 Blog post
Just you wait until the elections and see what happens. I have a feeling you will be very disappointed.

mpg said:
You don't even have the patience to watch a 14 second video? If you watched it you'd know that he didn't say what you claimed he said. He never said he wanted to kill "any" reform and he didn't use any similar words. That was the point that you guys were debating. You just cut your own throat.
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I think something else was cut out of his head...common sense. The facts are right there in his face and he STILL doesn't believe them. :doh
 
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Devil505 said:
Have you read the plan?

Does it include coverage for people with pre-exisitng medical problems?
Click to expand...

Just because I'm curious, do you really know what a pre-ex condition is? Most people really, dont understand what it is, or how it works.

For instance, what is the required definition of "pre-ex" in the context of a health policy purchased through an employer?
 
Lakryte said:
First of all, you cannot say that Republicans want to kill any healthcare reform when they have a healthcare reform bill.
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Sure I can & just did!;)
The Repubs bill is a sham just to try to prove they want reform.......That's a lie...a dodge. They want to kill any HC reform & will always say it's just THIS bill they want to kill.....But any bill will just be THIS bill to them....Get it??

Lakryte said:
Second of all: That video does not say the GOP wants to kill healthcare reform...so FAIL. It said that the GOP wants to stop Obama's idea of healthcare from happening (government involvement), and believes that if Obama doesn't pass HIS idea of reform his presidency will be broken. I believe that to be correct.
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Of course it doesn't come right out & admit the truth, but they come pretty close to admiting it by saying they want to use Obama's HC reform to Break Obama.

OJ Simpson doesn't admit killing his wife either...But he did...Just as certainly as the GOP represent the HC Industry & want to save their buddy's profits...at our expense.



Lakryte said:
"you guys"? Er...I'm not Republican, fyi.
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Oh right....Nobody admits to being a Repub anymore....Who do you guys think you're fooling by changing nothing but an "R" after your name??
 
sam_w said:
Folks, we are talking about people with a lack of gray matter that can not even figure out that Colbert is mocking them.
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Stupid thing to say. That's like blaming people from the South not understanding that Jeff Foxworthy is mocking them. It's funny because they get it.
 
Originally Posted by Devil505
Have you read the plan?

Does it include coverage for people with pre-exisitng medical problems?
Click to expand...

Buck said:
Just because I'm curious, do you really know what a pre-ex condition is? Most people really, dont understand what it is, or how it works.

For instance, what is the required definition of "pre-ex" in the context of a health policy purchased through an employer?
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So, I assume like most of the people i've talked with about this, you have no idea how pre-ex is defined or even why insurance companies use it. Just heard some politician talking about it, and figured you'd join their chorus.

It's really not as bad as the politicians have led you to believe. If the government chooses to offer a public "option" with no pre-ex limitations, I fear for the programs solvency even more then previously. The only way he program could possibly work without pre-ex limitations, is to force everyone to sign up for the public option from birth (not just fine them some small amount).
 
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Pre-existing conditions cannot be excluded from anyone's healthcare/insurance plans, according to the new bill.

I still don't see the big deal of this. The public option is just that. An option. No one need not use it if they want. Private options will still be open for people to use if they really want to. And from what it sounds like most of the conservative and centrist people here would use private healthcare even if the public option WAS opened to them. If you think it's flawed, then DON'T USE IT. Stop mongering fear, and just DON'T USE IT.

Under Obama we have already seen the S&P index rise 12.7%. Apparently, something he's doing is working. And it seems to me that people are overreacting to something that really doesn't even apply to them, so they need to calm down and get a grip.
 
hammertime27 said:
I still don't see the big deal of this. The public option is just that. An option. No one need not use it if they want. Private options will still be open for people to use if they really want to. And from what it sounds like most of the conservative and centrist people here would use private healthcare even if the public option WAS opened to them. If you think it's flawed, then DON'T USE IT. Stop mongering fear, and just DON'T USE IT.\
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But still pay for it. That makes sense.
 
Devil505 said:
The Repubs bill is a sham just to try to prove they want reform.......That's a lie...a dodge. They want to kill any HC reform & will always say it's just THIS bill they want to kill
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There's no reason to doubt that the Republicans want tort reform. The democrats are against it because they're protecting the profits of their friends, and those profits are what causes so much waste in health care. If you want to reduce the cost of health care you first need to reduce the unnecessary tests that doctors order to cover their butts.

You not only made an unsubstantiated accusation, you made an accusation that isn't even plausible.
 
mpg said:
There's no reason to doubt that the Republicans want tort reform. The democrats are against it because they're protecting the profits of their friends, and those profits are what causes so much waste in health care.
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I'm for it.....but like "Drill Baby Drill" it would solve nothing in terms of bringing real HC costs down & is being used by the GOP as a typically simplistic "Sound Bite"/Rallying Cry instead of a REAL plan. In other words.....Just another insulting "Trick" to try to win over what they consider us Dumb voters.

mpg said:
If you want to reduce the cost of health care you first need to reduce the unnecessary tests that doctors order to cover their butts.

You not only made an unsubstantiated accusation, you made an accusation that isn't even plausible.
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You need to do that FIRST, eh??

Drill Baby Drill!! (btw....remember how well that stupid slogan worked for you guys last November?):lol::lol:
 
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I agree that drilling in the US would've increased the world supply by a tiny amount but if you want to reduce the cost of health care, tort reform is the main thing. Everything else is small.
 
mpg said:
I agree that drilling in the US would've increased the world supply by a tiny amount but if you want to reduce the cost of health care, tort reform is the main thing. Everything else is small.
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Like I said, I agree with tort reform ..BUT....It would be a drop in the bucket in terms of reducing HC costs...........& the GOP knows it.

(it's just another stunt, distraction, "Watch This Hand" cheap magician's trick on the GOP's part but hey.....That's ll they have offered in the last 4 years........cheap magician's tricks )
 
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I know politicians in favor of reform are scaring everyone about pre-ex. But the real deal isn't all that scary. Not to suggest it's great, but it is neccessary and not all doom and gloom.

Pre-ex is simply defined, on policies issued through an employer,as a condition the insured recieved treatment for within 6 months of the effective date of the policy. In other words, if an insured last recieved treatment for cancer 6 months and one day prior to the effective date of the policy, it is not defined as "pre-existing" and an insurance company will cover any treatments for cancer or related conditions.

If the insured recieved teatment for the cancer one day prior to the effecitve date of the policy, the insurance company will not cover treatment for that cancer for one year from the effective date. In other words, the insuance comapny will begin covering all "pre-ex" conditions 1 year and one day after the effective date (it's called a wating period). After the policy has been inforce for one year, there is no longer any pre-existing exclusions.

The reason insurnace companies employ this? To prevent anti-selection, which is the likelyhood of an sick insure to sign up for insurance. By including a pre-ex limitation, the insurance company is able to ensure a healty pool of clients. Otherwise they'd all go bankrupt.

What is the government's plan to prevent anti-selection? Meaning, how will they prevent a lot of people from not signing up for insurance (especially younger people), and simply paying the fine untill they get sick, knowing there will be no problems with the government just paying their bills from the moment they get sick and sign up?

The pool of healthy individuals in the public plan, assuming it doesn't become a requirement, will not be high enough to sustain the payments they are making for treatments of the sickly.
 
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hammertime27 said:
We paid for the Iraq War too.

This will go towards helping our fellow man rather than leaving him to die.
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And those that disagreed with it had their say. Now those that disagree with health care reform are having theirs.
 
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RightOfCenter said:
And those that disagreed with it had their say. Now those that disagree with health care reform are having theirs.
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Funny thing is ......the latter group are same far right, torture loving, GOP, born again, OLD, white, angry men who ran this country into the ground for 8 years...Yeah....Let's listen to those idiots......AGAIN.:thumbdown
 
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buck said:
I know politicians in favor of reform are scaring everyone about pre-ex. But the real deal isn't all that scary. Not to suggest it's great, but it is neccessary and not all doom and gloom.

Pre-ex is simply defined, on policies issued through an employer,as a condition the insured recieved treatment for within 6 months of the effective date of the policy. In other words, if an insured last recieved treatment for cancer 6 months and one day prior to the effective date of the policy, it is not defined as "pre-existing" and an insurance company will cover any treatments for cancer or related conditions.

If the insured recieved teatment for the cancer one day prior to the effecitve date of the policy, the insurance company will not cover treatment for that cancer for one year from the effective date. In other words, the insuance comapny will begin covering all "pre-ex" conditions 1 year and one day after the effective date (it's called a wating period). After the policy has been inforce for one year, there is no longer any pre-existing exclusions.

The reason insurnace companies employ this? To prevent anti-selection, which is the likelyhood of an sick insure to sign up for insurance. By including a pre-ex limitation, the insurance company is able to ensure a healty pool of clients. Otherwise they'd all go bankrupt.

What is the government's plan to prevent anti-selection? Meaning, how will they prevent a lot of people from not signing up for insurance (especially younger people), and simply paying the fine untill they get sick, knowing there will be no problems with the government just paying their bills from the moment they get sick and sign up?

The pool of healthy individuals in the public plan, assuming it doesn't become a requirement, will not be high enough to sustain the payments they are making for treatments of the sickly.
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Not necessarily true. If the employee had insurance from another plan, employer or Cobra, within 63 days prior to the effective date of the new policy, there are NO pre-existing condition exclusions.
 
Gill said:
Not necessarily true. If the employee had insurance from another plan, employer or Cobra, within 63 days prior to the effective date of the new policy, there are NO pre-existing condition exclusions.
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While true, I have no idea how that disagrees with anything I've said... Young, healthy people will have no reason to sign up for a policy while healthy. They will just wait until they get sick, then sign up knowing everything will be fine - at least until the government realizes they can't afford it.

Someone that has a lot of time, will just sign up when they need to go to the doctor - cancel once they're healthy, then sign up the next time they have to go.

Anyway,what you described is still preventing "anti-selection".
 
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Devil505 said:
Sure I can & just did!;)
The Repubs bill is a sham just to try to prove they want reform.......That's a lie...a dodge. They want to kill any HC reform & will always say it's just THIS bill they want to kill.....But any bill will just be THIS bill to them....Get it??
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Sure you can! But that doesn't make it right! Sorry! How is the bill a lie? That doesn't even make sense. If they will always say that it is the Obama government care bill they want to kill, and that is all they say, what exactly leads you to believe that they want to kill every form of healthcare reform? No Republican has said they want to kill all healthcare reform. They made the bill back in MAY. You are completely WRONG. Now man up and deal with it. You cannot prove your point...Get it??

Now take your fingers out of your ears and stop crying "nahnahnahnahnah".


Of course it doesn't come right out & admit the truth, but they come pretty close to admiting it by saying they want to use Obama's HC reform to Break Obama.
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Sorry, but "close" does not=truth. For example, say I got an 88% on a test. That is "close" to being an A, so therefore the test is really counted as an "A"? Please. Your logic is skewed. Saying that they will use Obama's healthcare reform to "break" him does not mean they are against any healthcare reform...there is no logical connection you can make.

OJ Simpson doesn't admit killing his wife either...But he did...Just as certainly as the GOP represent the HC Industry & want to save their buddy's profits...at our expense.
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There was overwhelming evidence that OJ killed his wife. I would like you to show me the evidence that the GOP wants to kill any healthcare reform. The GOP has their own reform bill. The facts aren't on your side. Show me the gloves.


Oh right....Nobody admits to being a Repub anymore....Who do you guys think you're fooling by changing nothing but an "R" after your name??
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You just don't get it. Conservative does not equal Republican. You need a serious wake up call. If you are this ignorant to the world around you, I am honestly afraid of how you form your opinions and choices. It would be like a 4th grader designing economic plans and war strategies.


You can't prove your point based on "almost" saying this or "getting close" to saying that. Nor does just saying something make it true. ("I did not have sexual relations with that woman") You need evidence and facts to prove your point. You have NONE. Here is the evidence supporting my opinion that the GOP does NOT want to kill all healthcare reform.
1. They have their own healthcare reform bill.
2. No member of the GOP in Congress has said they want to kill all healthcare reform.
3. Many prominent GOP leaders have called for healthcare reform via private sector options, and most are against government healthcare, not healthcare reform.
4. TORT reform is supported largely by the Republican Party

Do you have any evidence of your claims at all? So far the video you showed as evidence actually further proved my point. I am tired of debating with somebody who keeps making baseless claims...it really isn't intelligent discussion.
 
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