• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Leaked stephen miller emails to breitbart directed race, anti-immigrant news coverage

Stephen Miller couldn't have said it better. This is the most thinly disguised racist diatribe i have seen in these forums to date.

Do you see anything that's not fact from my post. I don't see why anyone would ever expect me to back off from the truth.
 
Do you see anything that's not fact from my post. I don't see why anyone would ever expect me to back off from the truth.

Mostly thinly veiled KKK talking points. None of it worthy of anything but scorn. I've no time for 'race realism'
 
Trump has his own ideas about immigration & in essence his policies are his own with the intent of a 3 point landing in the future
for this nation. Blood, soil, literature & history make a nation. Multicultural, multilingual, multiethnic nations crafted by political
elites throughout history for the most part were artificial nations ever at risk of falling apart. Trump isn't interested in such an outcome.

Leading Democrat presidential primary candidate Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) is promising to import at least 700 percent more
foreign refugees into the United States if she becomes president. Hillary Clinton promised blanket amnesty for all illegals in her first
100 days as President.

'The drive of ethnic groups to separate and create nations in which there own unique culture, language & faith are
dominant is among the most powerful drive of mankind.' You're swimming up
stream not to acknowledge the power of ethnonationalism.

'Hiroshima in 1945 was in ashes & ruin at that same time Detroit was the mightiest industrial hub on earth.
70 years later Hiroshima is a gleaming city & Detroit a burnt out shell.' Why? Could it be that the USA
up until that time period practiced nationalism itself before the age of 'diversity' since then our
fortunes have tended downward. Japan refuses to open up their country to
immigration even though they have a BIRTH RATE that is more accurately described as a death rate.
Has Japan suffered from a lack of diversity?

I saw a high school football game on TV and the announcer said at one teams school they had
children speaking 15 different languages, is this the new America? Every child born in this century
is born into a society more third world than of European ancestry. If anyone desires a three point
safe landing for this country allowing open borders doesn't make sense.

There is no such thing as an American ethnicity, except for Native Americans, but I'm pretty sure you're not talking about them. Trump himself is of German ancestry, and at least 2 of his wives are Slavic.

There was a time when Irish and Italians were not seen as white. Many were against allowing these people into America (and now we all eat pizza and wash it down with Guiness). The Know-nothing party thankfully disappeared, but the ideas still exist as evidenced by your trash.
 
There is no such thing as an American ethnicity, except for Native Americans, but I'm pretty sure you're not talking about them. Trump himself is of German ancestry, and at least 2 of his wives are Slavic.

There was a time when Irish and Italians were not seen as white. Many were against allowing these people into America (and now we all eat pizza and wash it down with Guiness). The Know-nothing party thankfully disappeared, but the ideas still exist as evidenced by your trash.

The signers of the founding documents were predominantly British but the 2nd ethnic group among them was the Irish. Three were born in Ireland
& three were born here of Irish descent. So if all ethnic groups the Irish had a head up on every other European group of 'Johnny Come Latelies'
The 7th president was an Irish ethnic in the first half of the 19th century.

For 350 years after Jamestown the immigration laws of this country were written with one
goal, to preserve the European character of this country. Those ranting 'This is not who we are" today forget
that is 'what we were' when America overtook Britain as the greatest economic & military power about a century ago.

The immigrants before 1950 were all white, all European and almost all were Christian.
'After each wave of immigration there were long periods of little or no immigration
giving time for the Americans to assimilate the newcomers.
Their children passed through deeply patriotic schools where they were
immersed in the language, literature, history & traditions uniquely American.

Today however those schools have been converted to the point that American
history is often taught as a series of crimes against people of color Today’s
immigrants are rarely European, rarely Christian & rarely white. Today's elites
who promote the flood of immigartion ignore the crucial elements that
made America work for over 200 years.
 
The signers of the founding documents were predominantly British but the 2nd ethnic group among them was the Irish. Three were born in Ireland
& three were born here of Irish descent. So if all ethnic groups the Irish had a head up on every other European group of 'Johnny Come Latelies'
The 7th president was an Irish ethnic in the first half of the 19th century.

For 350 years after Jamestown the immigration laws of this country were written with one
goal, to preserve the European character of this country. Those ranting 'This is not who we are" today forget
that is 'what we were' when America overtook Britain as the greatest economic & military power about a century ago.

The immigrants before 1950 were all white, all European and almost all were Christian.
'After each wave of immigration there were long periods of little or no immigration
giving time for the Americans to assimilate the newcomers.
Their children passed through deeply patriotic schools where they were
immersed in the language, literature, history & traditions uniquely American.

Today however those schools have been converted to the point that American
history is often taught as a series of crimes against people of color Today’s
immigrants are rarely European, rarely Christian & rarely white. Today's elites
who promote the flood of immigartion ignore the crucial elements that
made America work for over 200 years.

There were more than a few non-white immigrants in the past. Even still, so what? Do you want to go on record saying white people are better?
 
Japan refuses to open up their country to
immigration even though they have a BIRTH RATE that is more accurately described as a death rate.
Has Japan suffered from a lack of diversity?



Of course, I am not going to touch the thread topic with a ten-foot pole.

But I just wanted to report that the Japan Times website reported a few weeks ago that the Japanese government has decided to let in 300,000 immigrants.

I think that the government is making a horrible mistake that will have devastating consequences for the cultural harmony of that beautiful and unique nation.
 
There were more than a few non-white immigrants in the past. Even still, so what? Do you want to go on record saying white people are better?

Refusing to accept what human experience teaches is the mark of a liberal utopian ideologue.
For the last four decades maybe even five the prominent thinking by the Establishment tried
to 'create the concept of the ideal nation the most egalitarian, diverse & liberated that
ever existed. However no stable society can stand on a theory running counter to reality’

About 100 years ago two of our most effective presidents one democrat & one republican
seemed to sense the problem many show concern about:

Teddy Roosevelt:
'The one absolute certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to
be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationaliities'

President Wilson 1915 speech:
“There are citizens of the United States, I blush to admit, born under other flags but welcomed under our generous naturalization
laws to the full freedom and opportunity of America, who have poured the poison of disloyalty into the very arteries of our national life;

'Every American child born after 2001, that is born in the 21st century belongs to a generation more 3rd world than European.'
How did it ever come to this, If you control the borders and immigration of your country, you control the culture, values, and
civilization within your country. If you don't then you get a multicultural society where each culture is vying for domination
of the culture --- it's been proven to be unworkable.

Ethnonationalism is not resurgent it never died.
It continues to be & nearly always has been the world in which we live in the most powerful movement.

IIt outlasted Marxism tearing apart the USSR. Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova & the Caucusus followed suite
& then went the 5 nations of Central Asia. That was not the end only the beginning, minorities inside the new nations wanted their
place in the sun & the Caucasus became the 20th century Balkans. This is just the primary example of many other breakups throughout
the world demonstrating the pull of ethnonationalism.

'Always it's Sameness that dominates! People favor friendships with those of similar backgrounds, interests & values. Despite a few exceptions
the urge is almost universal, it's human nature!' Czechoslavakia, the Soviet Union & Yugoslavia were held together by a police state
when the police state disintegrated new nationalistic nations were formed.



How wrong is it to take no provision for the likely darknes that looms ahead!
Common sense is not hate speech, and realism is not racism.
 
Trump has his own ideas about immigration & in essence his policies are his own with the intent of a 3 point landing in the future
for this nation. Blood, soil, literature & history make a nation. Multicultural, multilingual, multiethnic nations crafted by political
elites throughout history for the most part were artificial nations ever at risk of falling apart. Trump isn't interested in such an outcome.

You should get a snappy black uniform to wear when you say things like that.
 
There were more than a few non-white immigrants in the past. Even still, so what? Do you want to go on record saying white people are better?

Funny the irish were brought up, they werent considered white culturally or racially.
 
Haidt ran an experiment where they attempted to determine cross-ideologue understanding, ie: do conservatives understand the moral values of liberals, and do liberals understand the moral values of conservatives. They had people attempt to answer a battery of questions while pretending to be the opposite of their ideological lean, and compared that to control tests (others answering as themselves) to see how closely the people attempting-to-answer-on-behalf-of-the-other could match the results.

I ran an experiment to determine whether or not conservatives had a sense of shame, morality, ethics, fairness or could understand hypocrisy. It started in 2015, and ended ~2019, and the results are grim for conservatives.
 
Jesse Lee Peterson is black yet repeats white supremacist talking points on a daily basis. We call people something when they ally and with and actively support white supremacists, white supremacists.

JLP is awesome. If was here right now, he would look at your profile and call you a "BETA!!!". I would call him a fundamentalist Christian that wants his people to embrace Christian values, for their benefit. I guess from a commie **** lib's postmodernist perspective you call him a white supremacist, but most people (that understand commie ideology) would think that's very stupid.
 
Over 90% of Jews self identify as white or non Hispanic white...so it is possible for a Jew to be a white nationalist even if they identify with their Jewish heritage. Steven Miller may be just one of those kind of Jews.

They could pretend to be whatever they want but they're still jews.

Also, there seems to be a growing rift among white nationalists about who to hate.

It's still commie **** libs. POC's just annoy us...

Some white nationalists like Jared Taylor's group consider Jews to be white and a natural ally against Muslims and a growing number of Jews are attending his conferences.

That is a novel idea. You can't really call them anti-semites and they benefit from their members ethnic privilege. I would also imagine this really pisses off jewish ****-libs.

Whereas other groups affiliated with David Duke and Neo Nazi's are rabid anti-Semites and blame Jews for nearly everything.

I wouldn't call them anti-semites, they're very concerned citizens that don't want their culture to be subverted.

https://timeline.com/how concerned citizens put a stop to medical experiments being conducted on mentally ill people.


The SPLC an utterly-discredited, long-debunked far-left smear organization. No one believes what these idiots have to say.
 
Hm. I dunno if I'd say that much or what - I'll admit, it's not something I've developed a solid policy position on, other than a couple of basic tenets:

1. Law needs to actually be enforced, reliably, consistently, and across the board. Those who violate our immigration laws* should be culpable for their actions just as those who violate our employment laws should be.

2. We have mass imported low skill labor, and then been surprised to find that our lower skilled workers are facing increased competition and downward wage pressure that comes with it. Future immigration policy should focus on importing those with skill sets who are not likely to require assistance for them or their families, just as (for example) Canada does.

3. Assimilation into American culture needs to be heavily encouraged, and enabled.
- This isn't just language, but includes it. Allowing children to go through our entire school system speaking a language that isn't spoken by a majority of the country doesn't help them; it severely hinders them.
- With a large portion of our populace now immigrants, our capacity to do this may be strained, meaning, yes, we may need to limit total numbers going forward below where they have been.**



*includes visa overstays.

** though shifting to a more skills based system could alleviate some of this. It is probably easier for a doctor from India to assimilate into American culture than it is for a tribesman from a rural Pakistani village in the former FATA.



“1. Law needs to actually be enforced, reliably, consistently, and across the board. Those who violate our immigration laws (includes visa overstays) should be culpable for their actions just as those who violate our employment laws should be.”

Do you some idea how much this would cost?

“2. We have mass imported low skill labor, and then been surprised to find that our lower skilled workers are facing increased competition and downward wage pressure that comes with it. Future immigration policy should focus on importing those with skill sets who are not likely to require assistance for them or their families, just as (for example) Canada does.”

There just isn’t the evidence of significant impact as you describe on wages or cost in govt assistance. Nonetheless, they are your claims to prove, without which evidence it is unfounded.

“3. Assimilation into American culture needs to be heavily encouraged, and enabled.
- This isn't just language, but includes it. Allowing children to go through our entire school system speaking a language that isn't spoken by a majority of the country doesn't help them; it severely hinders them.
- With a large portion of our populace now immigrants, our capacity to do this may be strained, meaning, yes, we may need to limit total numbers going forward below where they have been (though shifting to a more skills based system could alleviate some of this. It is probably easier for a doctor from India to assimilate into American culture than it is for a tribesman from a rural Pakistani village in the former FATA).”


So, your solution to improve assimilation is to lower immigration? Any other solution?

The fact is, w/o immigration, including the undocumented, the US can not economically grow as it has. No workers, nobody to fill the jobs needed to do the work necessary to grow business. Combined with a declining birth rate, as has been for about 20 yrs., lowering immigration, which has gone down as it is, could just as well limit economic growth.

One interesting point relative to the claim that immigrants depress low-skilled labor wages, which tend to be the lowest of the wage scale, is that those who complain about such are also against increasing minimum wage.
 
1. I will not touch this hot potato topic with a ten-foot pole.

2. BUT I will say that anyone who criticizes President Trump for listening to Mr. Miller should also have criticized President Obama who listened to the Rev. Mr. Sharpton who graced the Executive Mansion with his presence on numerous occasions. (P.S. The Rev. Mr. Sharpton admits that his organization pays him $1,000,000 a year. He says that he is worth it. Yeah, right!)
 
JLP is awesome. If was here right now, he would look at your profile and call you a "BETA!!!". I would call him a fundamentalist Christian that wants his people to embrace Christian values, for their benefit. I guess from a commie **** lib's postmodernist perspective you call him a white supremacist, but most people (that understand commie ideology) would think that's very stupid.

He also says he is slow because he is black so i wont be taking the words of an uncle tom paid by white supremacists very seriously. Neither will i be taking yours you dont know what postmodernism is apparently.
 
They could pretend to be whatever they want but they're still jews.



It's still commie **** libs. POC's just annoy us...



That is a novel idea. You can't really call them anti-semites and they benefit from their members ethnic privilege. I would also imagine this really pisses off jewish ****-libs.



I wouldn't call them anti-semites, they're very concerned citizens that don't want their culture to be subverted.

https://timeline.com/how concerned citizens put a stop to medical experiments being conducted on mentally ill people.



The SPLC an utterly-discredited, long-debunked far-left smear organization. No one believes what these idiots have to say.

Oh my...it appears we have a white nationalist in our midst.
 
1. I apologize for the delay in getting back to you. Life suddenly got quite busy.

“1. Law needs to actually be enforced, reliably, consistently, and across the board. Those who violate our immigration laws (includes visa overstays) should be culpable for their actions just as those who violate our employment laws should be.”

Do you some idea how much this would cost?

To actually enforce our laws? Well, we already have the infrastructure and manpower in place, and, frankly, could probably use some of the fine-based revenue, so my initial bet would be "not much", however, I would also come down on the side of "within reasonable boundaries, I don't care". Rule of Law is a public good, and a prerequisite for a free, successful, and just society.

“2. We have mass imported low skill labor, and then been surprised to find that our lower skilled workers are facing increased competition and downward wage pressure that comes with it. Future immigration policy should focus on importing those with skill sets who are not likely to require assistance for them or their families, just as (for example) Canada does.”

There just isn’t the evidence of significant impact as you describe on wages or cost in govt assistance.

I didn't say anything about government assistance in the section you quoted, however, the evidence is absolutely there that income for low-skilled Americans has been depressed relative to other categories over the couple of decades in which we also mass-imported lower-cost low-skilled foreigners to compete with them for employment opportunities.

This isn't exactly complicated. When demand for a particular item (say, low-skilled labor) remains relatively stable and supply increases, price drops.

Furthermore, to my point above, if price drops below the legal market floor (the MW), but an extra-legal option is easily and safely available with little to no reasonable chance of negative consequences.... :shrug:

“3. Assimilation into American culture needs to be heavily encouraged, and enabled.
- This isn't just language, but includes it. Allowing children to go through our entire school system speaking a language that isn't spoken by a majority of the country doesn't help them; it severely hinders them.
- With a large portion of our populace now immigrants, our capacity to do this may be strained, meaning, yes, we may need to limit total numbers going forward below where they have been (though shifting to a more skills based system could alleviate some of this. It is probably easier for a doctor from India to assimilate into American culture than it is for a tribesman from a rural Pakistani village in the former FATA).”


So, your solution to improve assimilation is to lower immigration? Any other solution?

Well, I literally gave you one such item within the section that you are quoting, so, maybe I'll let you re-read that :)

The fact is, w/o immigration, including the undocumented, the US can not economically grow as it has.

:shrug: maybe. "as it has"? well, sure - it would have grown some other way.

But I'm not certain that raw GDP growth is all that great a measure of whether or not your populace is doing well, independent of other factors.

If our GDP and population without the recent immigration waves (making up big round numbers to keep it easy) was 300 million people and GDP of $20 Trillion (GDP per capita of about $66,666), there's an argument to be made that that is a better-off populace than a post-immigration wave populace of 330 million with a GDP of $21 Trillion (GDP per capita of about $63,636).

I'm not staking a flag on this to defend to the death, but, raw GDP growth that results in a lower average standard of living is, shall we say, a heavily mitigated "benefit" at best.

No workers, nobody to fill the jobs needed to do the work necessary to grow business.

No, you would have fewer low skilled labor meaning lower skilled labor would be more richly rewarded in the market.

Combined with a declining birth rate, as has been for about 20 yrs., lowering immigration, which has gone down as it is, could just as well limit economic growth.

Possibly.

One interesting point relative to the claim that immigrants depress low-skilled labor wages, which tend to be the lowest of the wage scale, is that those who complain about such are also against increasing minimum wage.

That is correct - those of us who wish U.S. domestic policy would stop punishing our poor are generally in favor of U.S. domestic policy ceasing to punish our poor. Making legal labor increasingly expensive through regulation while mass importing an extra-legal low cost substitute is a tailor-made way to go about pushing the most vulnerable parts of your population into structural unemployment and poverty.
 
Last edited:
Well, I think it's true. You are more upset with the SPLC than Miller's emails and language.

:shrug: I"m not upset with either of them. I started my first post in this thread by acknowledging that Miller very well could be a white supremacist. I simply don't accept SPLC as an arbiter of what makes a white supremacist for the same reason I don't accept Hannity or Trump as an arbiter of who is a Deep State Traitor to the U.S. - because all of these actors have demonstrated that they are willing to sling these accusations where they are unwarranted for political effect.
 
Haidt’s findings are really incongruent with the fox new crowd the “everyone outside fox news is an american hating commie pinko”

If by that you mean "statistical results from testing groups are incongruent with my opinion of people I don't like, nor are they congruent with some anecdotes I can think of"....

....well.... yeah. That's why we have the scientific method :)

If anything you could take from this thread, i would advise you to look at what people do, its more important than trying to divine what is in their hearts. That is why it doesnt matter if one is in a mixed relationship, they can still be racist.

Why, what a very conservative insight :) I seem to recall some critics of "hate crime" legislation making precisely that point.

Do you think it might be wise of you to put that insight into practice? I admit, I had to chuckle when I saw that you followed it by implicitly insisting that A) you could divine what was in Murray's heart and B) that what you divined in his heart was what mattered.
 
Last edited:
:shrug: I"m not upset with either of them. I started my first post in this thread by acknowledging that Miller very well could be a white supremacist. I simply don't accept SPLC as an arbiter of what makes a white supremacist for the same reason I don't accept Hannity or Trump as an arbiter of who is a Deep State Traitor to the U.S. - because all of these actors have demonstrated that they are willing to sling these accusations where they are unwarranted for political effect.


He calls himself alt right, and you could read his emails and the full details at the SPLC center website and judge for yourself, but that depends if you will even bother because it’s all from SPLC. It’s honestly disappointing to see you be so flippant and unconcerned about a possible white supremacist making immigration and legal reforms in America, because SPLC.

You keep disparaging SPLC and acting like they are Alex Jones, but have not posted anything proving your opinion. Nobody in this thread has to respect your feelings. Bring some facts
 
If by that

Btw, I like how an admitted proud boy is liking your posts... that’s why I said earlier, you and white supremacists probably agree on a lot at on a superficial level, and I am concerned you’re more likely to ignore and reason away some of their rhetoric as not white supremacist or racist instead of realizing the person is actually alarming and their words are concerning
 
He calls himself alt right, and you could read his emails and the full details at the SPLC center website and judge for yourself, but that depends if you will even bother because it’s all from SPLC.

:shrug: dishonest sources are dishonest.


It’s honestly disappointing to see you be so flippant and unconcerned about a possible white supremacist making immigration and legal reforms in America, because SPLC.

We have a racist angry idiot child as President, we are in the middle of impeachment hearings because he decided to weaponize foreign policy against domestic opposition (which is how the Roman Republic self-immolated, and incredibly dangerous), and the people with the best chance of replacing him seem intent on nominating people no better, or worse. Yeah, I would say "is an advisor also a racist" isn't my top domestic concern at the moment. Flippant? Nah. Simply unemotional.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
 
Btw, I like how an admitted proud boy is liking your posts.

:shrug: probably because I'm arguing against y'all. People from all sides like and hate different posts of mine because I critique the GOP and Trump where they deserve it, and the Left when they deserve it. If he likes Trump so much, he's welcome to like the post above this one.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
 
Back
Top Bottom