Leaked stephen miller emails to breitbart directed race, anti-immigrant news coverage

cpwill · Nov 17, 2019

bomberfox said:
You compared them to Alex Jones. Its not hard to see.

I said that even Alex Jones could stumble across something, and still be a completely unreliable actor. :shrug: SPLC has only - as far as I am aware - demonstrated that time accusations of bigotry are incredible, because they sling them untruthfully at their political opposition.

But I'm guessing you are just going to try to ignore away that you accused me of lying while lying about what I had said? Gosh. :roll: how astonishing.

bomberfox · Nov 17, 2019

cpwill said:
I said that even Alex Jones could stumble across something, and still be a completely unreliable actor. :shrug: SPLC has only - as far as I am aware - demonstrated that time accusations of bigotry are incredible, because they sling them untruthfully at their political opposition.

But I'm guessing you are just going to try to ignore away that you accused me of lying while lying about what I had said? Gosh. :roll: how astonishing.

Ohhhh wow one time getting something wrong makes an organization comparable to people that get nearly everything wrong. You are just so transparent and yet again you focus on moving the goalposts when asked to defend your claim. My my someone that bases their entire judgement of an organization based on ONE error that was corrected (btw this doesnt even demonstrate a supposed policy of calling everyone they dont like a racist) is totally credible dont ya know.

cpwill · Nov 17, 2019

bomberfox said:
You compared them to Alex Jones, Breitbart and Hannity. Its not hard to see. You even say they call everyone they disagree with a racist which also implies the same thing. Seems like its you that is easily offended but ya need to put on the alpha male facade. Saying that they have no credibility implies they get the majority of cases wrong

No, I compared the credibility of their accusations to the credibility of accusations leveled by Hannity or Breitbart. Alex Jones I threw out as a rather extreme example of the concept.

Nor am I the one trying to climb up into the Oh my gosh I'm so offended you said that high chair - that would be you, freaking out that someone said the words "Alex Jones".

I honestly don't care that much, but, no: saying something has no credibility in one particular area because they have demonstrated a willingness to be untruthful in it is not a statement that they are untruthful a majority of the time.

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cpwill · Nov 17, 2019

bomberfox said:
Ohhhh wow one time getting something wrong makes an organization comparable to people that get nearly everything wrong. You are just so transparent and yet again you focus on moving the goalposts when asked to defend your claim. My my someone that bases their entire judgement of an organization based on ONE error is totally credible dont ya know.

No - as I said, she likes and seems to think in terms of personal anecdotes, so I pointed her to one, and one in which this particular M.O. of theirs had produced some rather entertaining backlash.

You seem rather upset about it. Why?

SheWolf · Nov 17, 2019

cpwill said:
:yawn:

1. I was the first on the forum to identify Trump's fascist tendencies and the proto fascist nature of his message and much of his most ardent base.

2. I haven't defended Miller; nor castigated him. I have simply pointed out that the SPLC is not a credible source for this accusations.

Generally, if y'all were better about to differentiate between "disagrees with me" and "is a fascist", you'd be a lot more credible when you hurled invective.

What is it exactly about Trump that you don’t like and consider racist?

SheWolf · Nov 17, 2019

cpwill said:
When an organization known to declare that everyone it disagrees with politically is a racist declares that they have emails proving someone they disagree with is a racist, but you don't get to read them, you just need to let us characterize them for you...

Again, I'm not saying he isn't a white supremacist. I just have zero trust in SPLC's credibility to declare it so. :shrug:

The SPLC labels anybody who disagrees with them a racist? :lol:

Where do you come up with this stuff

bomberfox · Nov 17, 2019

cpwill said:
No, I compared the credibility of their accusations to the credibility of accusations leveled by Hannity or Breitbart. Alex Jones I threw out as a rather extreme example of the concept.

Nor am I the one trying to climb up into the Oh my gosh I'm so offended you said that high chair - that would be you, freaking out that someone said the words "Alex Jones".

I honestly don't care that much, but, no: saying something has no credibility in one particular area because they have demonstrated a willingness to be untruthful in it is not a statement that they are untruthful a majority of the time.

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Oh but you do care which is why you are replying. You started off by comparing them to Breitbart which implies they get the majority of their claims wrong or is it just one thing that breitbart gets wrong that makes him not credible? You also claim that making these false claims is their biggest moneymaker which you also failed to demonstrate. You have failed to demonstrate any of your claims. You couldnt provide even a basic meta analysis which would actually be sufficient to demonstrate your claim.

bomberfox · Nov 17, 2019

SheWolf said:
The SPLC labels anybody who disagrees with them a racist? :lol:

Where do you come up with this stuff

Oh its just the one case where they corrected themselves thats proof enough!

cpwill · Nov 17, 2019

SheWolf said:
What is it exactly about Trump that you don’t like and consider racist?

I don't like MANY things about Trump. He's an idiot, unwilling to learn and unable to think that he should. He's a constant liar, and he makes others lie or be dishonest for him. He has the emotional maturity of a child, the temperament of an angry drunk, and the viciousness of a schoolyard bully. He's abusive, corrupt, and a danger to the Republic.

He's a racist in a casual way - I wouldn't say he actively hates other ethnicities, but generally looks down on them. It's in the long, long, list of reasons why he never should have been allowed anywhere near public office.

Mustachio · Nov 17, 2019

SheWolf said:
I have always known Trump is a racist. I am just wondering when Trump supporters will start to feel the shame they rightfully deserve to feel for supporting these politics.

I don't think he's "racist." I think his views on minorities are stereotypical, and I think his policies are racist, but I think his brain doesn't have space to consider a person's color or nationality. It's:
1. Who's that person?
2. Do I want to have sex with that person or will I gain power or money from them? If so, go to 3. If not, go to 4.
3. I must meet this person.
4. Make sure I don't have to see that person.

As far as his rallies and politics go, that's all a show. Not the real Trump. I don't believe him when he says Mexico will pay for a wall and I don't believe him when he says something incredibly racist. Whatever he's saying is solely intended for personal or political gain and is not based on anything grounded in reality.

I could be wrong, but the man seems to spend 95% of his brain thinking about himself. Not a lot of room left for racism.

cpwill · Nov 17, 2019

SheWolf said:
The SPLC labels anybody who disagrees with them a racist? [emoji38]

Where do you come up with this stuff

I don't - I simply react to the SPLC's decision to attack Ben Carson, the Family Research Center (where they inspired a shooter to attack!), Masjid Nawaz, Charles Murray, and others as somehow hate filled bigots or the moral equivalent of the Klan :roll:

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bomberfox · Nov 17, 2019

Mustachio said:
I don't think he's "racist." I think his views on minorities are stereotypical, and I think his policies are racist, but I think his brain doesn't have space to consider a person's color or nationality. It's:
1. Who's that person?
2. Do I want to have sex with that person or will I gain power or money from them? If so, go to 3. If not, go to 4.
3. I must meet this person.
4. Make sure I don't have to see that person.

As far as his rallies and politics go, that's all a show. Not the real Trump. I don't believe him when he says Mexico will pay for a wall and I don't believe him when he says something incredibly racist. Whatever he's saying is solely intended for personal or political gain and is not based on anything grounded in reality.

I could be wrong, but the man seems to spend 95% of his brain thinking about himself. Not a lot of room left for racism.

It kinda runs in the family... He also promoted discriminatory housing policies for his real estate business.

bomberfox · Nov 17, 2019

cpwill said:
I don't - I simply react to the SPLC's decision to attack Ben Carson, the Family Research Center (where they inspired a shooter to attack!), Masjid Nawaz, Charles Murray, and others as somehow hate filled bigots or the moral equivalent of the Klan :roll:

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Charles Murray is a eugenics apologist (the pioneer fund is a eugenics organization which funded his propaganda) and someone who bitches about the downfall of white America quite often. Yes he is a racist. The family research center promotes anti-lgbt views so yeah bigotry.

cpwill · Nov 17, 2019

bomberfox said:
Oh but you do care which is why you are replying.

:shrug: you are replying to me, and I prefer to set the record straight when it is maligned.

You started off by comparing them to Breitbart which implies they get the majority of their claims wrong

No, it doesn't. It implies that their credibility is comparable (low to nil) because both are willing to dishonestly attack those they disagree with politically.

cpwill · Nov 17, 2019

bomberfox said:
It kinda runs in the family... He also promoted discriminatory housing policies for his real estate business.

Yup. Lost some lawsuits for that, IIRC.

cpwill · Nov 17, 2019

bomberfox said:
Charles Murray is a eugenics apologist (the pioneer fund is a eugenics organization which funded his propaganda) and someone who bitches about the downfall of white America quite often. Yes he is a racist. The family research center promotes anti-lgbt views so yeah bigotry.

Charles Murray is not a racist (he's in a mixed marriage, ffs), which is why the SPLC cannot quote the sections they depend upon in full when they do so. And "disagrees with us about sexuality and is therefore a hate filled bigot" is exactly the kind of nonsense that leaves SPLC non-credible.

bomberfox · Nov 17, 2019

cpwill said:
:shrug: you are replying to me, and I prefer to set the record straight when it is maligned.

No, it doesn't. It implies that their credibility is comparable (low to nil) because both are willing to dishonestly attack those they disagree with politically.

Two claims of this happening aren’t even wrong. Have you actually read what they claimed?

bomberfox · Nov 17, 2019

cpwill said:
Charles Murray is not a racist (he's in a mixed marriage, ffs), which is why the SPLC cannot quote the sections they depend upon in full when they do so. And "disagrees with us about sexuality and is therefore a hate filled bigot" is exactly the kind of nonsense that leaves SPLC non-credible.

Lel the i got a black friend shield. Aint that grand?
[8] Lombardo, Paul A. (2002). "'The American Breed': Nazi eugenics and the origins of the Pioneer Fund". Albany Law Rev. 65 (3): 743–830. PMID 11998853.
Rushton, J. Philippe (2002). "The Pioneer Fund and the Scientific Study of Human Differences" (PDF). Albany Law Rev. 66: 209. Archived from the original (PDF) on 2013-03-27.
Lombardo, Paul A. (2002). "Pioneer's Big Lie". Albany Law Rev. 66: 1125.
Tucker, William H. (2002). "A Closer Look at the Pioneer Fund: Response to Rushton". Albany Law Rev. 66: 1145

https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Apart-State-America-1960-2010/dp/030745343X

See what happens when ya do a bit of digging?

SheWolf · Nov 17, 2019

bomberfox said:
Comparing the SPLC to Alex Jones is absolutely saying the majority of their claims are wrong especially when you say even Alex Jones may stumble across something. Who do you think you are fooling? You would be more credible is you referenced what can be verified on this site instead of twitter.

Many people at the SPLC are academics and PHDs who study hate groups, their histories, goals, and philosophy. I met a college professor through my sister, and he was associated with the SPLC. He specializes in genocide. Others specialize in domestic terror. Many individuals involved in the SPLC are respected academics, and their work is actually very valuable and necessary. It is sad to see so many right wingers hating on them, as if nobody there is doing anything worth a damn.

SheWolf · Nov 17, 2019

cpwill said:
:shrug: she likes anecdotes, so I gave her merely one example. Your posting that SPLC was forced to back down on that claim in the face of a threat of a massive defamation suit doesn't really do much other than confirm the point.

You always try to make things personal about me by bringing up my religion. You actually do it, a lot, and it’s really weird.

SheWolf · Nov 17, 2019

bomberfox said:
Ohhhh wow one time getting something wrong makes an organization comparable to people that get nearly everything wrong. You are just so transparent and yet again you focus on moving the goalposts when asked to defend your claim. My my someone that bases their entire judgement of an organization based on ONE error that was corrected (btw this doesnt even demonstrate a supposed policy of calling everyone they dont like a racist) is totally credible dont ya know.

He is totally moving the goalposts

SheWolf · Nov 17, 2019

cpwill said:
No - as I said, she likes and seems to think in terms of personal anecdotes, so I pointed her to one, and one in which this particular M.O. of theirs had produced some rather entertaining backlash.

You seem rather upset about it. Why?

I don’t appreciate it. The only thing I have taken personal offense to is you acting like I am an anti white racist who thinks white people deserve to be harassed in the public by minorities. I told you back then, I took your accusations very seriously and it deeply impacted the way I saw you as a person. Yes, I found it highly offensive. If you want to continue turning the situation into a joke and game, by continuing to try to make everything about me personally, then don’t expect me think highly of you as a person, and don’t ****ing try to whine and cry about it either. I don’t care about your feelings.

SheWolf · Nov 17, 2019

cpwill said:
I don't - I simply react to the SPLC's decision to attack Ben Carson, the Family Research Center (where they inspired a shooter to attack!), Masjid Nawaz, Charles Murray, and others as somehow hate filled bigots or the moral equivalent of the Klan :roll:

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They treat Carson like a klan member. That sounds like hyperbole to me. I still need the proof.

Mustachio · Nov 18, 2019

bomberfox said:
It kinda runs in the family... He also promoted discriminatory housing policies for his real estate business.

Yeah, I'm well aware. It certainly appears racist. But it's hard to say if he was trying to provide housing for rich people (who they assumed wanted to live minority-free lives) or promoting a very evil, racist housing policy. His father? Probably both. Him? Hard to say. His father, as far as I know, didn't have a severe case of narcissistic personality disorder like our President does. As far as I know. It reminds me of the first episode of House of Cards when Francis explains how power is the ultimate goal - the only goal. A quality which, as Gore Vidal one wrote, is a tragedy in a man and a disaster in a President.

Moot · Nov 18, 2019

CitizenBasehead said:
Are you talking about me? I grew up in the greater LA area and I've been saying this about the local news sense the early 2000's.

He's Jewish and I think he Identifies with his Jewish heritage, he can't be a White supremacist.

If he considers himself to be White, then i'll make the same exception that was made for Emil Maurice.

Emil Maurice - Wikipedia

Over 90% of Jews self identify as white or non Hispanic white...so it is possible for a Jew to be a white nationalist even if they identify with their Jewish heritage. Steven Miller may be just one of those kind of Jews.

Also, there seems to be a growing rift among white nationalists about who to hate. Some white nationalists like Jared Taylor's group consider Jews to be white and a natural ally against Muslims and a growing number of Jews are attending his conferences. Whereas other groups affiliated with David Duke and Neo Nazi's are rabid anti-Semites and blame Jews for nearly everything.

Schism over Anti-Semitism Divides Key White Nationalist Group, American Renaissance | Southern Poverty Law Center