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Thread: ABC News Amy Robach caught on hot mic complaining that ABC spiked Epstein-Clinton story in 2016

  1. #71
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    Re: ABC News Amy Robach caught on hot mic complaining that ABC spiked Epstein-Clinton story in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    See, you're continuing to do exactly what you're accusing me of. You're digging in and finding the "variants" you like, rather than the standard definitions.

    You, of course, lose your bet. Anything, eh? I'll send you a list.
    Well, clearly you don't understand how to use a dictionary.
    I'm at peace with my lust
    I can kill 'cause in God I Trust, yeah
    It's evolution, baby

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    Re: ABC News Amy Robach caught on hot mic complaining that ABC spiked Epstein-Clinton story in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Dans La Lune View Post
    No, I didn't. I said it's flexible, like conservatism.



    I already did. Recently. How about trying to read?
    Then quote yourself giving the definition.



    I'm trying really, really hard not to insult your intelligence, but you're making it increasingly difficult. I asked you a simple question: Classical Liberalism vs. Modern Liberalism. Are you capable of communicating with me on a basic level?
    I did. You apparently didn't understand the answer.


    Are you seriously incapable of reading your own menu?

    "Americans Elect, a coalition of American centrists funded by wealthy donors such as business magnate Michael Bloomberg, former junk-bond trader Peter Ackerman and hedge fund manager John H. Burbank III, launched an effort in mid-2011 to create a national "virtual primary" that would challenge the current two-party system. The group aims to nominate a presidential ticket of centrists with names that would be on ballots in all 50 states. The group banks on broad cultural dissatisfaction with the partisan gridlock in Washington, D.C. The Christian Science Monitor has stated that "the political climate couldn't be riper for a serious third-party alternative" such as their effort, but the "hurdles Americans Elect faces are daunting" to get on ballots.[49]

    Journalist and political commentator E. J. Dionne wrote in his book Why Americans Hate Politics, published on the eve of the 1992 presidential election, that he believes American voters are looking for a "New Political Center" that intermixes "liberal instincts" and "conservative values". He labelled people in this centre position as "tolerant traditionalists". He described them as believers in conventional social morals that ensure family stability, as tolerant within reason to those who challenge those morals and as pragmatically supportive of government intervention in spheres such as education, child care and health care, as long as budgets are balanced.[51]

    ...

    "The Blue Dog Coalition, commonly known as the Blue Dogs or Blue Dog Democrats, is a caucus of United States Congressional Representatives from the Democratic Party who identify as fiscally conservative, centrist Democrats. The caucus professes an independence from leadership of both parties, and a mission of fiscal responsibility and promoting national defense."

    ...

    "In the summer of 2009, The Economist newspaper said the following regarding the Blue Dog Coalition: “The debate over health care ... may be the pinnacle of the group’s power so far.” The Economist quoted Charlie Stenholm, a founding Blue Dog, as stating that “This is the first year for the new kennel in which their votes are really going to make a difference.”[15] In July 2009, Blue Dog members who were committee members of the House Energy and Commerce Committee successfully delayed the House vote on the Health Insurance Reform Bill (HR3200) until after the Summer Recess.[16][17] It was during this recess that the term ‘Obamacare’ was first derisively adopted by Republicans on Capitol Hill[18] It is widely proposed that Blue Dog opposition to the “public option” and this recess, with that summer’s contentious Town Hall meetings, provided the healthcare law’s Republican opponents the opportunity to attack and subsequently get the public option dropped from the original, pre-recess bill.[19][20]"

    ...

    According to the Center for Responsive Politics, as of 2009 the top contributors to the New Democrat Coalition caucus members were the finance, insurance and real estate industries and in the two decades between 1989 and 2009 members of the New Democrat Coalition had collected $50 million from those industries.
    I'm sorry; where exactly does that say the definition of "centrist" includes "corporatist"? You're not making leaps, you're pole-vaulting.


    You have yet to prove it in even the barest capacity. Why are you even challenging me at this point? You are stumbling blinding through dictionary and Wikipedia links. Do you think I can't read what you link to?
    I'm stating definitions and giving sources for them, something you've almost entirely steadfastly refused to do.


    I was sooo right.
    I'm sure that's what you tell yourself.
    The only reason to be anti-libertarian is there are people you want to control that you wouldn't be able to.

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    Re: ABC News Amy Robach caught on hot mic complaining that ABC spiked Epstein-Clinton story in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Dans La Lune View Post
    Well, clearly you don't understand how to use a dictionary.
    There's not a thing you've said which makes that case in the slightest. Sustained litanies of personal attacks certainly don't get that job done.
    The only reason to be anti-libertarian is there are people you want to control that you wouldn't be able to.

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    Re: ABC News Amy Robach caught on hot mic complaining that ABC spiked Epstein-Clinton story in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Then quote yourself giving the definition.
    "Those most commonly identified as progressives tend to be very left-leaning economically, socially liberal, against corporatism and against neoconservatism."

    I'll go you further:

    "The progressive movement emerged in the 1890s and included intellectual reformers typified by sociologist Lester Frank Ward and economist Richard T. Ely.[47] They transformed Victorian liberalism, retaining its commitment to civil liberties and individual rights while casting off its advocacy of laissez-faire economics. Ward helped define what would become the modern welfare state after 1933.[48] These often supported the growing working-class labor unions and sometimes even the socialists to their left. The Social Gospel movement was a Protestant intellectual movement that helped shape liberalism especially from the 1890s to the 1920s. It applied Christian ethics to social problems, especially issues of social justice such as economic inequality, poverty, alcoholism, crime, racial tensions, slums, unclean environment, child labor, inadequate labor unions, poor schools and the danger of war."

    ...

    "In 19001920, liberals called themselves progressives. They rallied behind Republicans led by Theodore Roosevelt and Robert M. La Follette as well as Democrats led by William Jennings Bryan and Woodrow Wilson to fight corruption, waste and big trusts (monopolies). They stressed ideals of social justice and the use of government to solve social and economic problems. Settlement workers such as Jane Addams were leaders of the liberal tradition.[52] There was a tension between sympathy with labor unions and the goal to apply scientific expertise by disinterested experts. When liberals became anti-Communist in the 1940s, they purged leftists from the liberal movement.[53]"


    I did. You apparently didn't understand the answer.
    No, you excluded and refused to recognize definitions which opposed your singular definition. Again, you don't seem to understand these basic concepts, and are not motivated in trying to understand them. Let me make it easy for you:

    Modern liberalism in the United States - Wikipedia

    "Modern liberalism in the United States is the dominant version of liberalism in the United States. It combines ideas of civil liberty and equality with support for social justice and a mixed economy."

    ...

    "The American modern liberal philosophy strongly endorses public spending on programs such as education, health care and welfare. Important social issues during the first part of the 21st century include economic inequality (wealth and income),[5] voting rights for minorities,[6] affirmative action,[7] reproductive and other women's rights,[8] support for LGBT rights[9][10] and immigration reform.[11][12]"

    ...

    Modern liberalism took shape during the 20th century, with roots in Theodore Roosevelt's New Nationalism, Woodrow Wilson's New Freedom, Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal, Harry S. Truman's Fair Deal, John F. Kennedy's New Frontier and Lyndon B. Johnson's Great Society. American liberals oppose conservatives on most but not all issues. Modern liberalism is historically related to social liberalism and progressivism, although the current relationship between liberal and progressive viewpoints is debated.

    Get it now? Or rather, what DON'T you get?

    I'm sorry; where exactly does that say the definition of "centrist" includes "corporatist"? You're not making leaps, you're pole-vaulting.
    Perhaps I went over your head. To borrow from Colbert, if someone is stabbing you with a knife and ultimately kills you, they don't have to scream, 'Murder! Murder! Murder!' in order for it to be murder.

    The point in my quotes, borrowed from your links, is that billionaires and millionaires, and those who take money from such, are heavily invested in virtually every brand of American centrism. That's the point. Do you get it now?

    I'm stating definitions and giving sources for them, something you've almost entirely steadfastly refused to do.
    No, you link to definitions, and when these links are used to your disadvantage, you flatly claim that nothing but your variant of the definition is applicable. You've done this repeatedly throughout our so-called discussion. I challenged you several times, and I'll do it again: What is the difference between Classical Liberalism and Modern Liberalism? Which is the most commonly recognized version used by non-Libertarians?

    I'm sure that's what you tell yourself.
    Not that my ego is invested in our exchange, but I'm dragging you and you don't realize it.
    I'm at peace with my lust
    I can kill 'cause in God I Trust, yeah
    It's evolution, baby

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    Re: ABC News Amy Robach caught on hot mic complaining that ABC spiked Epstein-Clinton story in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    There's not a thing you've said which makes that case in the slightest. Sustained litanies of personal attacks certainly don't get that job done.
    Pulling proper and acceptable MODERN usages of definitions from your links is the fairest thing I can do, and at some point you not recognizing this is not a personal attack but a plain observation.
    I'm at peace with my lust
    I can kill 'cause in God I Trust, yeah
    It's evolution, baby

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    Re: ABC News Amy Robach caught on hot mic complaining that ABC spiked Epstein-Clinton story in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Dans La Lune View Post
    "Those most commonly identified as progressives tend to be very left-leaning economically, socially liberal, against corporatism and against neoconservatism."
    You're cherry-picking yourself. You said:

    Those most commonly identified as progressives tend to be very left-leaning economically, socially liberal, against corporatism and against neoconservatism. However, since anyone can self-identify, there's literally nothing I can say to disqualify Amy Klobuchar or Hillary Clinton.
    Which means the "definition" you claim to have given is qualified to the point of uselessness.

    Now, FINALLY, after days and dozens of posts, you've committed yourself to something concrete:

    I'll go you further:

    *snipped for character limit*
    So, I'd say "bravo," but it's something you could have done quite a while ago. Why didn't you?


    No, you excluded and refused to recognize definitions which opposed your singular definition. Again, you don't seem to understand these basic concepts, and are not motivated in trying to understand them. Let me make it easy for you:

    Modern liberalism in the United States - Wikipedia

    "Modern liberalism in the United States is the dominant version of liberalism in the United States. It combines ideas of civil liberty and equality with support for social justice and a mixed economy."

    ...

    "The American modern liberal philosophy strongly endorses public spending on programs such as education, health care and welfare. Important social issues during the first part of the 21st century include economic inequality (wealth and income),[5] voting rights for minorities,[6] affirmative action,[7] reproductive and other women's rights,[8] support for LGBT rights[9][10] and immigration reform.[11][12]"

    ...

    Modern liberalism took shape during the 20th century, with roots in Theodore Roosevelt's New Nationalism, Woodrow Wilson's New Freedom, Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal, Harry S. Truman's Fair Deal, John F. Kennedy's New Frontier and Lyndon B. Johnson's Great Society. American liberals oppose conservatives on most but not all issues. Modern liberalism is historically related to social liberalism and progressivism, although the current relationship between liberal and progressive viewpoints is debated.

    Get it now? Or rather, what DON'T you get?
    "Excluded"? How does this conflict with what I said liberalism is:

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Yes, liberal is a definable ideology, involving holding individual rights, civil liberties, free enterprise, limited government, the rule of law dear.
    Hmmm? Which of those things do liberals, even as you define them here, not believe in? Please choose all that apply.

    You're trying to make "liberalism" synonymous with "progressive," but even here you emphasized that "the current relationship between liberal and progressive viewpoints is debated."


    Perhaps I went over your head. To borrow from Colbert, if someone is stabbing you with a knife and ultimately kills you, they don't have to scream, 'Murder! Murder! Murder!' in order for it to be murder.
    No, but "murder" does require more than just being stabbed with a knife and ultimately killing you.


    The point in my quotes, borrowed from your links, is that billionaires and millionaires, and those who take money from such, are heavily invested in virtually every brand of American centrism. That's the point. Do you get it now?
    Do you not get that even if this is so, it doesn't mean the definition of "centrist" -- especially as is commonly understood, which was the point -- involves "corporatism"?


    No, you link to definitions, and when these links are used to your disadvantage, you flatly claim that nothing but your variant of the definition is applicable. You've done this repeatedly throughout our so-called discussion.
    I didn't "flatly claim" anything. What I do say is that my links consistently gave the primary definition as something other than you'd like, and it was you who had to dig deep to find what you wanted.


    I challenged you several times, and I'll do it again: What is the difference between Classical Liberalism and Modern Liberalism? Which is the most commonly recognized version used by non-Libertarians?
    As I asked, what part of the definition of "liberalism" that I gave do "modern liberals" not believe in?

    Not that my ego is invested in our exchange, but I'm dragging you and you don't realize it.
    I'm 100% certain you think that's true.
    The only reason to be anti-libertarian is there are people you want to control that you wouldn't be able to.

  7. #77
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    Re: ABC News Amy Robach caught on hot mic complaining that ABC spiked Epstein-Clinton story in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Dans La Lune View Post
    Pulling proper and acceptable MODERN usages of definitions from your links is the fairest thing I can do, and at some point you not recognizing this is not a personal attack but a plain observation.
    No, you're skipping past the entirely consistent, repeated primary definitions until you find what you want.
    The only reason to be anti-libertarian is there are people you want to control that you wouldn't be able to.

  8. #78
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    Re: ABC News Amy Robach caught on hot mic complaining that ABC spiked Epstein-Clinton story in 2016

    Not R or D 2020

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    Re: ABC News Amy Robach caught on hot mic complaining that ABC spiked Epstein-Clinton story in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You're cherry-picking yourself. You said:

    Which means the "definition" you claim to have given is qualified to the point of uselessness.
    It's not my problem that you don't appear to understand the fundamentals of language (e.g. how a word can have multiple meanings). You don't appear to be able to hold conflicting ideas in your head simultaneously. Again, not my problem. The calls are coming from inside your house.

    So, I'd say "bravo," but it's something you could have done quite a while ago. Why didn't you?
    I was more focused on proving that you don't appear to have a firm grasp on anything.

    "Excluded"? How does this conflict with what I said liberalism is:
    It's not about conflict, it's about one definition NOT being applicable to another. They don't have to conflict to have different meanings.

    You're trying to make "liberalism" synonymous with "progressive," but even here you emphasized that "the current relationship between liberal and progressive viewpoints is debated."
    I never said they were synonymous. I said that people who are liberal tend to be progressive, and visa-versa, because many of the COMMON qualities are shared ones.

    No, but "murder" does require more than just being stabbed with a knife and ultimately killing you.
    So now you're concerned with nuance? You haven't been before.

    Do you not get that even if this is so, it doesn't mean the definition of "centrist" -- especially as is commonly understood, which was the point -- involves "corporatism"?
    I'm happy with my explanation thus far.

    I didn't "flatly claim" anything. What I do say is that my links consistently gave the primary definition as something other than you'd like, and it was you who had to dig deep to find what you wanted.
    No, the primary definition for liberalism is not synonymous libertarianism, or even on the same planet as libertarianism.

    As I asked, what part of the definition of "liberalism" that I gave do "modern liberals" not believe in?
    For one and two, ideological positions on small government and free enterprise. These concepts have NOTHING to do with modern liberalism. Which doesn't mean that a modern liberal cannot believe in them, but they are not connected to the term. Modern liberalism (aka liberalism) deals with human rights, civil rights, equal rights, social justice, and things of that nature. Again, you put yourself in a box, close the lid, then wonder why it's so ****ing dark inside. The problem is not with me, it's with you.

    I'm 100% certain you think that's true.
    Good, we agree on something.
    I'm at peace with my lust
    I can kill 'cause in God I Trust, yeah
    It's evolution, baby

  10. #80
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    Re: ABC News Amy Robach caught on hot mic complaining that ABC spiked Epstein-Clinton story in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    No, you're skipping past the entirely consistent, repeated primary definitions until you find what you want.
    Again, not how dictionaries work. The dictionary gives you multiple definitions and usages for a reason. Namely, because that's how language works.

    Also, lets be clear: The resurgence of Classical Liberal is another in a loooong series of attempts to rebrand libertarian-leaning conservatism, championed by people like David Rubin and Jordan Peterson.

    It's garbage, these people are garbage, and the intellectual dark web movement is garbage in its entirety.

    I hope that makes things clear. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
    I'm at peace with my lust
    I can kill 'cause in God I Trust, yeah
    It's evolution, baby

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