• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Tucker: "So Many Progressives Mourning John Bolton's Firing"

Dans La Lune said:
Progressives did not support the Iraq War. Conservative and centrist Democrats did. You're conflating Democrat with 'liberal' and 'progressive' they are not related terms. Democrat is a party vehicle, liberal and progressive are ideologies. A Klansman could be a Democrat, just as a progressive could be a Republican. For example, Nixon was far more progressive on most issues than Obama.
Click to expand...

Bingo.
 
Nap said:
Umm... Obama started several wars.
Click to expand...

I said he funded conflicts. What new wars did he get our troops into?


As far as the question, no...
Click to expand...

Alright, so to say Progressives are for military interventionism because a few politicians get funding from the defense lobby is kinda silly.
 
aociswundumho said:
No to both. I don't believe medical decisions should be based on politics, and I don't want the state involved in education whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Really? So it should be legal to knowingly sell contaminated medication. Interesting assertion, I disagree.



No, he isn't. Watch the video at the 3:00 mark. He claims (paraphrased) that progressives see the state as the answer to all human problems.
Click to expand...

If you think John Bolton's belief is "sees the state as the answer to all human problems," I really don't know what the **** to tell you. I'm a liberal, and he's against basically every single thing I want to change about our government. He's against universal healthcare, against unions, for the war on drugs, for military interventionism, for the military-industrial complex, against reforming our criminal justice system, against stricter pollution controls, against fighting climate change...

Here's what happened. Fox ****in News told you what to believe. You accepted it without question. You didn't take even five seconds to wonder what Bolton's stance is on any one of these issues. You didn't even stop to wonder why your great hero Donald Trump hired a radical leftist to be a national security advisor.
 
Last edited:
Dans La Lune said:
Progressives did not support the Iraq War. Conservative and centrist Democrats did. You're conflating Democrat with 'liberal' and 'progressive' they are not related terms. Democrat is a party vehicle, liberal and progressive are ideologies. A Klansman could be a Democrat, just as a progressive could be a Republican. For example, Nixon was far more progressive on most issues than Obama.
Click to expand...

A modern KKK member as as Democrat? I'm having serious trouble envisioning that being part of a Venn diagram. KKK people hate most of the groups Democrats talk about trying to help.....


I fully understand the distinction between ideology and party, but KKK and Democrat don't really mix since the party's demographic shifts.
 
Mr Person said:
Carlson is a lying idiot and total hack. This is why Fox viewers like him.
Click to expand...

akyron said:
In what way?
Click to expand...

Mr Person said:
= "List some ways so I can announce that what you said isn't proof and thereby score an Internets Victory Point. MWwwwaaahahahah!"




He's a lying idiot and total hack in every way. This has been catalogued over God knows how many threads. I'm not going to do your research for you, especially given the other hackish **** I've seen you say on a regular basis.

Nibble on someone else's ankle.
Click to expand...

akyron said:
Ok so you do not know. So noted.
Click to expand...

See? I knew you would give some variant of that response.

That's the best your type of poster can do: try to win via transparently stupid/dishonest *gotcha* games. If I'd provided reasons, you'd either jump thread or announce they were lies. I've seen you do it a thousand times. All that happened is someone saw your stupid bull**** for what it was and saved themselves the trouble of smelling it.

The saddest part is that you're probably sitting there at your keyboard telling yourself you "won" something.


:lamo
 
Geoist said:
I said he funded conflicts. What new wars did he get our troops into?




Alright, so to say Progressives are for military interventionism because a few politicians get funding from the defense lobby is kinda silly.
Click to expand...

Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan and those are just the ones that we know about.

The fact that collectively defense contractors pushed for the DNC candidates above that of the GOP should be a rather clear that their interests are aligned. They may not be "for war" but those contractors know the inevitable result should they be elected would be to maintain the status quo and continue the Bush/Obama legacy. Hell, the one candidate that is speaking out against war is Tulsi and she is repeatedly getting smear simply because she states the fact that Assad is not a threat to the US.
 
Mr Person said:
See? I knew you would give some variant of that response.

That's the best your type of poster can do: try to win via transparently stupid/dishonest *gotcha* games. If I'd provided reasons, you'd either jump thread or announce they were lies. I've seen you do it a thousand times. All that happened is someone saw your stupid bull**** for what it was and saved themselves the trouble of smelling it.

The saddest part is that you're probably sitting there at your keyboard telling yourself you "won" something.


:lamo
Click to expand...

You made an assertion and failed to support it. Who is dishonest? I even asked nicely.
 
AmNat said:
The neo-cons are quintessentially progressive. Their entire shtick is launching (unwanted and unhelpful) crusades against those who don't live according to their own narrow view of the world. It's the same impulse that motivates SJWs, played out on an international scale.
Click to expand...

Oooooh! That must be the reason behind the Trumpster's push to pack the courts with judges who will take away abortion rights from women. :roll:
 
akyron said:
Ok so you do not know. So noted.
Click to expand...

Mr Person said:
See? I knew you would give some variant of that response.

That's the best your type of poster can do: try to win via transparently stupid/dishonest *gotcha* games. If I'd provided reasons, you'd either jump thread or announce they were lies. I've seen you do it a thousand times. All that happened is someone saw your stupid bull**** for what it was and saved themselves the trouble of smelling it.

The saddest part is that you're probably sitting there at your keyboard telling yourself you "won" something.


:lamo
Click to expand...

akyron said:
You made an assertion and failed to support it. Who is dishonest? I even asked nicely.
Click to expand...

Ok if you so desperately need the last word or still cannot work out what I have said, go ahead, take the last word, and buy yourself an ice cream. It'll probably do you good to wrongly believe you succeeded at something.

:2wave:
 
Wreckingball said:
LOL having penis envy?
Click to expand...

What?



PS: it is suspicious when someone creates an account and immediately dives in to a thread. You literally just created your account and somehow you find your way here, right away? And that is your second comment on a debate board you are "new" to?

:thinking
 
Linc said:
TC forgets how many times trump has bragged about how big his defense bill is, and also conveniently forgets to mention how much is being diverted from the military to build his worthless medieval wall.

Since we have a part-time Congress, there is little time for anything but a CR. A shutdown is still very possible on October 1st, especially over the issue of backlisting the 127 military projects trump put on hold.
Click to expand...

And to keep lining the pockets of men like Gen. John Kelly who is CEO of some of the private concentration camps they keep children in for $750 per child - per day. That's a whole lot of military spending going right into the hands of those grifters.
 
Geoist said:
The problem is you guys think corporate media = progressive. That is simply not the case. Much of the media takes a status-quo neoliberal stance. I don't know of a single Progressive who was for a war in Syria. Many display distrust of Russia, but that is natural considering their government is an oligarchy that murders journalists. Some Progressive media sources I read, like Counterpunch and Truthdig, are a bit too Russia-government friendly, at times.
Click to expand...
Our experiences differ markedly, then, because I've found myself debating dozens of progressives over the past year who've made no bones about it: Putin and Assad are enemies of the people, enemies of the US, and the US absolutely needs to stand up to them (increase troop deployments) in Syria, the Ukraine, and Turkey.

One thing worth noting: These views tended to surface most frequently in threads where the topic was Pres. Trump going dovish on foreign policy (withdrawing troops from Syria, downplaying Russia as a threat, ignoring Chinese aggression, etc.). They appeared to me to be at least partly due to the attitude "Whatever Pres. Trump is for, I'm against."

You might consider this idea ludicrous--that people would change their stances on foreign policy, wars, etc. based on what Pres. Trump thinks--but there are studies by major institutions documenting the phenomenon. It meshes perfectly with what I've observed, and I don't think many of the affected progressives even realize they're doing it. In a nutshell, they've become so reactionary that they've become pro-war. Strange but true.
 
Mr Person said:
PS: it is suspicious when someone creates an account and immediately dives in to a thread. You literally just created your account and somehow you find your way here, right away? And that is your second comment on a debate board you are "new" to?
Click to expand...

The hallmarks of a socky.
 
AmNat said:
Yes. You can tell that they've sold out by their fondness for neocons like John Bolton (or Bill Kristol, Max Boot, etc.).



Donald Trump
Click to expand...

It's amazing how some love to skirt the fact that Trump was against the Iraq war.
Oops sorry to burst the left's bubble of delusion.
 
Deuce said:
If you think John Bolton's belief is "sees the state as the answer to all human problems," I really don't know what the **** to tell you.
Click to expand...

Are you incapable of following a simple argument? You wrote:

Deuce said:
Tucker is defining progressivism as "thinking the government can effect a positive change."
Click to expand...

To which I stated that he isn't:

aociswundumho said:
No, he isn't. Watch the video at the 3:00 mark. He claims (paraphrased) that progressives see the state as the answer to all human problems.
Click to expand...

Now you're talking about what John Bolton believes instead of what progressives believe. I couldn't care less what Bolton believes.
 
aociswundumho said:
No to both. I don't believe medical decisions should be based on politics, and I don't want the state involved in education whatsoever.



No, he isn't. Watch the video at the 3:00 mark. He claims (paraphrased) that progressives see the state as the answer to all human problems.
Click to expand...
Really? How do you feel about a woman's right to choose? Somehow I think you want the Government right in there telling the Doctor what he or she can or can't say when the subject of abortion comes up. Am I right?
 
More suspicious you have no sense of direction
 
The hallmark of sucky lol and you are good at it.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Hatred of Putin, his corrupt kleptocracy, and his bankrolling of neo-fascists movements in Europe doesn't equate to anti-Russian sentiment. And progressives don't want to invade Syria.

You yourself seem pretty confused. I've seldom met a progressive who wants to invade any nation on Earth.
Click to expand...
What can I say? Most of my experience was on another political message board I'd belonged to since 2008. I'd known many of these people for 10 years, and they are progressives. Pro-choice, pro-Democratic, pro-LGBT, pro-universal-healthcare, pro-immigration, pro-feminism, pro-climate, anti-racism, anti-white-privilege, anti-sexism dyed-in-the-wool progressives. Nearly all of them very anti-war up to and including 2016, but then in 2017 and beyond, a distinct change.

It wasn't just "Putin is a dictator", "Shame on Assad", it was "We NEED to deploy troops along the Ukrainian border", "We NEED to put more boots on the ground in Syria and Turkey to bolster our allies", "We NEED to start blockading Russia's ports in response to the poisoning of Sergei Skripal". Staunch military interventionism.

So what am I supposed to believe: your claim that "progressives don't want to invade Syria", or my own eyes?

Maybe DP is different. Who knows. I don't know people here well enough to make this determination.
 
Geoist said:
Tucker’s point was that believing in using government to create change in a society makes you a progressive. He is grossly incorrect with his simplistic definition. By his own definition he is a progressive as he believes in using government to curb immigration.
Click to expand...

changing society is different than a law and order issue like immigration.
 
bearpoker said:
Really? How do you feel about a woman's right to choose?
Click to expand...

Unlike you, I support her right to choose which school her kid goes to, which firearm she wants for self-defense, which drugs she want to put into her own body, and anything else that doesn't harm other people.

Somehow I think you want the Government right in there telling the Doctor what he or she can or can't say when the subject of abortion comes up. Am I right?
Click to expand...

No, I couldn't care less. Abortion wouldn't even be an issue if it weren't for occupational licensing laws which people like you support.
 
aociswundumho said:
Unlike you, I support her right to choose which school her kid goes to, which firearm she wants for self-defense, which drugs she want to put into her own body, and anything else that doesn't harm other people.



No, I couldn't care less. Abortion wouldn't even be an issue if it weren't for occupational licensing laws which people like you support.
Click to expand...

Okay, does this mean than anyone can be a doctor just by saying so? Are you an anarchist? That's not a society I want to live in. Nice dodge to my question by the way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom