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Washington Post's fact-check of Bernie goes terribly wrong

Dans La Lune

Dans La Lune

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Washington Post, currently at war with Bernie Sanders, gave him 'Three Pinocchios' for claiming that 500,000 Americans file bankruptcy each year due to medical expenses.

The Washington Post Fact Checked Bernie Sanders. It Went Poorly – Rolling Stone

It appears that Bernie Sanders actually rounded down. The Washington Post itself recently published an article stating that 530,000 Americans went bankrupt due to medical expenses each year.

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Yeah...



But the media isn't biased. Claims of fake news is fake news.
 
KevinKohler said:
Yeah...



But the media isn't biased. Claims of fake news is fake news.
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No, no, no. Those on the left can ALWAYS detect media bias during Democratic primaries. After that, it goes away.
 
Harshaw said:
No, no, no. Those on the left can ALWAYS detect media bias during Democratic primaries. After that, it goes away.
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The media is biased towards corporate interests, and that doesn't change before or after Democratic primaries. Funny enough, corportism heavily favors Republican ideology. Thus, if the media is biased, it's actually in Republicans' favor.

And if the right-wing (i.e. Trump) engage in behavior that produces 500 negative stories, the media is not biased in reporting those 500 negative stories.

That's the difference in my pointing out media bias, and a Trumper complaining that the Washington Post or New York Times keeps reporting on Trump's egregiously corrupt behavior.

It's not equal.
 
Dans La Lune said:
The media is biased towards corporate interests, and that doesn't change before or after Democratic primaries. Funny enough, corportism heavily favors Republican ideology. Thus, if the media is biased, it's actually in Republicans' favor.

And if the right-wing (i.e. Trump) engage in behavior that produces 500 negative stories, the media is not biased in reporting those 500 negative stories.

That's the difference in my pointing out media bias, and a Trumper complaining that the Washington Post or New York Times keeps reporting on Trump's egregiously corrupt behavior.

It's not equal.
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Well, OF COURSE it's different when YOU do it . . .
 
Harshaw said:
Well, OF COURSE it's different when YOU do it . . .
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I take it you have no actual response to the substance of my post, which begs the question of why you'd want to call attention to yourself.
 
Dans La Lune said:
The media is biased towards corporate interests, and that doesn't change before or after Democratic primaries. Funny enough, corportism heavily favors Republican ideology. Thus, if the media is biased, it's actually in Republicans' favor.

And if the right-wing (i.e. Trump) engage in behavior that produces 500 negative stories, the media is not biased in reporting those 500 negative stories.

That's the difference in my pointing out media bias, and a Trumper complaining that the Washington Post or New York Times keeps reporting on Trump's egregiously corrupt behavior.

It's not equal.
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If I were to make any gross sweeping generalizations, I would say that the mainstream media is biased towards metropolitan and cosmopolitan neo-liberal/globalist bourgeois bohemianism, and those policies and politicians which allow the existence of their own petite bourgeois lifestyles to continue unhindered.
 
Dans La Lune said:
I take it you have no actual response to the substance of my post, which begs the question of why you'd want to call attention to yourself.
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The meaning of "begs the question" is "assumes the answer within the question," not "raises the question."

I don't think it's necessary to respond substantively to a post so asinine as to claim the media (especially the Washington Post) is biased in Republicans' favor.
 
Harshaw said:
The meaning of "begs the question" is "assumes the answer within the question," not "raises the question."
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I love it when people try to dunk on me with a triviality like this, only to dunk themselves: Beg (Begging) the Question: What Does it Mean? | Merriam-Webster

I don't think it's necessary to respond substantively to a post so asinine as to claim the media (especially the Washington Post) is biased in Republicans' favor.
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Perhaps you don't understand the issues, thus don't understand my points. That's okay. You can sit this one out.
 
Felis Leo said:
If I were to make any gross sweeping generalizations, I would say that the mainstream media is biased towards metropolitan and cosmopolitan neo-liberal/globalist bourgeois bohemianism, and those policies and politicians which allow the existence of their own petite bourgeois lifestyles to continue unhindered.
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Neo-liberalism is a conservative-based economic philosophy, championed by people like Stephen Moore and Arthur Laffer, and most of the Republican party.

So you're correct, but you fail to note that a neo-liberal agenda skews heavily in favor of Republican economic ideology. Which ultimately makes me correct.
 
Sanders, who is more fond of statistics than stories, drives home the point with a big number. “500,000 people go bankrupt every year because they cannot pay their outrageous medical bills,” he said on TV recently,
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Under Sanders' plan, those "outrageous medical bills" don't go down at all, they just get transferred to the taxpayer. Leave it to an idiot Marxist to believe that allowing everyone in the country to run up "outrageous medical bills" will somehow improve the situation.
 
Harshaw said:
No, no, no. Those on the left can ALWAYS detect media bias during Democratic primaries. After that, it goes away.
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The media could have made Clinton's emails disappear then. Buried it, under reported or misreported. Instead they put the scandal front and center. The only thing the media wants is to sell stories.
 
aociswundumho said:
Under Sanders' plan, those "outrageous medical bills" don't go down at all, they just get transferred to the taxpayer.
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Actually, medical bills wouldn't exist at all for the average American. Taxes go up, the price of healthcare goes down enormously. There is no middle-man taking a cut. The average family won't have to pay $28k/year for insurance. And also, since it's removed as a 'benefit' provided by an employer, wages would have far more room to increase.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Washington Post, currently at war with Bernie Sanders, gave him 'Three Pinocchios' for claiming that 500,000 Americans file bankruptcy each year due to medical expenses.

The Washington Post Fact Checked Bernie Sanders. It Went Poorly – Rolling Stone

It appears that Bernie Sanders actually rounded down. The Washington Post itself recently published an article stating that 530,000 Americans went bankrupt due to medical expenses each year.

bn5eei6cawj31.png
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“Due to medical expenses” seems to be what is in contention here. Sanders deserved three Pinocchio’s because, as WaPo pointed out, medical expenses were not identified as the only, primary, or even related cause of the bankruptcies in the survey results.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Neo-liberalism is a conservative-based economic philosophy, championed by people like Stephen Moore and Arthur Laffer, and most of the Republican party.
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Certainly, Dans La Lune. But the benefits of free trade have been embraced by many a left-leaning politician and economist, so it is by no means a "rightist" ideology. And I have yet to see any mainstream media publications beyond Fox News and the Wall Street Journal give ringing endorsements or defense of conservatives in general and Republicans in particular on the basis of their forwarding neoliberal economic policies.

Dans La Lune said:
So you're correct, but you fail to note that a neo-liberal agenda skews heavily in favor of Republican economic ideology. Which ultimately makes me correct.
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I really do not see how, seeing that both Democrats and Republicans for the last two decades have been stalwart advocates of free trade, which is the bedrock principle of economic neoliberalism. It was President Bill Clinton who signed NAFTA into law, and it was Barack Obama who championed the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement, after all.
 
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Dans La Lune said:
Taxes go up, the price of healthcare goes down enormously. There is no middle-man taking a cut.
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What middleman? Health insurance companies by law must use 80 to 85 percent of the money they collect in premiums to pay hospital bills. Health insurance companies in general have relatively small profit margins. If you think getting rid of insurance companies is going to cut the prices hospitals charge "enormously" then you're just as ignorant as Sanders is.
 
Napoleon said:
“Due to medical expenses” seems to be what is in contention here. Sanders deserved three Pinocchio’s because, as WaPo pointed out, medical expenses were not identified as the only, primary, or even related cause of the bankruptcies in the survey results.
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So the Washington Post would give themselves Three Pinocchios?

And funny, Bernie Sanders is repeating the claim and is daring Washington Post to fact-check him again. :)
 
Felis Leo said:
Certainly, Dans La Lune. But the benefits of free trade have been embraced by many a left-leaning politician and economist, so it is by no means a "rightist" ideology. And I have yet to see any mainstream media publications beyond Fox News and the Wall Street Journal give ringing endorsements or defense of conservatives in general and Republicans in particular on the basis of their forwarding neoliberal economic policies.
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Most of the opinion journalists at Washington Post, CNN, and New York Times are corporate-leaning neo-liberals. Most of the pundits on CNN are neo-liberals, and say that if Trump ran on his economic agenda he'd very hard to beat (translation: 'His economy is doing great!'). Only very recently, with recession warnings, have they even begun to criticize his economic agenda.

I really do not see how, seeing that both Democrats and Republicans for the last two decades have been stalwart advocates of free trade, which is the bedrock principle of economic neoliberalism. It was President Bill Clinton that signed NAFTA into law, and it was Barack Obama who championed the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement, after all.
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EXACTLY. This is why Bernie Sanders is seen as more of a threat to America than Donald Trump by the media. Democrats have largely accepted the economic argument from Republicans. Pelosi, for example, largely serves the same corporate interests as Donald Trump. Joe Biden told a room full of mega-donors (some supporting Trump directly) that, 'Nothing would fundamentally change' if they bankrolled his campaign and he won the election.

Joe Biden to rich donors: "Nothing would fundamentally change" if he's elected | Salon.com

Why do you think the media is carrying Biden's water?
 
Dans La Lune said:
So the Washington Post would give themselves Three Pinocchios?

And funny, Bernie Sanders is repeating the claim and is daring Washington Post to fact-check him again. :)
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I haven’t read the WaPo article, but if they lied about it as they demonstrated Sanders has and continues to do then whoever wrote it would deserve three pinocchios too.
 
Dans La Lune said:
I love it when people try to dunk on me with a triviality like this, only to dunk themselves: Beg (Begging) the Question: What Does it Mean? | Merriam-Webster
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I "dunked" myself? The article at your link says exactly what I said. At best, for you, it notes increased erroneous uses of the phrase since the 1960s. I certainly don't deny that a lot of people get it wrong.


Perhaps you don't understand the issues, thus don't understand my points. That's okay. You can sit this one out.
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No, I get your reasoning -- it's asinine.

And it's not even "reasoning," it's rationalization, to let you off the hook when you claim it's different when you do it.
 
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Dans La Lune said:
Washington Post, currently at war with Bernie Sanders, gave him 'Three Pinocchios' for claiming that 500,000 Americans file bankruptcy each year due to medical expenses.

The Washington Post Fact Checked Bernie Sanders. It Went Poorly – Rolling Stone

It appears that Bernie Sanders actually rounded down. The Washington Post itself recently published an article stating that 530,000 Americans went bankrupt due to medical expenses each year.

bn5eei6cawj31.png
Click to expand...

Bernie got his numbers from CNBC. The study found that 66.5% of all bankruptcies are tied to medical issues.

The study also found that findings are consistent with past studies on bankruptcy. Also, the study found the Affordable Care Act did not reduce the burden of medical debt for people.

Hard to believe it’s not trump’s fault. I’m sure someone will find an argument to blame Trump
 
I have no evidence, much less proof, but I am sure that the word "solely" has been left out on purpose. So, my doubter is up and running 100%. For the OP to be true, medical bills would have to be the sole reason for their debt.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Washington Post, currently at war with Bernie Sanders, gave him 'Three Pinocchios' for claiming that 500,000 Americans file bankruptcy each year due to medical expenses.

The Washington Post Fact Checked Bernie Sanders. It Went Poorly – Rolling Stone

It appears that Bernie Sanders actually rounded down. The Washington Post itself recently published an article stating that 530,000 Americans went bankrupt due to medical expenses each year.

bn5eei6cawj31.png
Click to expand...

The Rolling Stone piece you linked said "Sanders’s team told the Post that the Vermont Senator was relying on an estimate published in a medical journal that found that 66.5% of bankruptcy filers cited either medical bills or missed work due to illness as a reason they went broke. The journal itself said this was “equivalent to about 530,000 medical bankruptcies annually.”

If the medical expenses had been paid but work was missed, would the number of "went broke"s been the same? Which raises the question, how do we know the medical expenses weren't paid?

Another kind of related question, your MEDIUM link lists a bunch of WAPO headlines that apparently upset the writer in his defense of Bernie.
Have you or young Kevin Gosztola ever noticed WAPO headlines vis-a-vis Trump.
Yeah, Bernie's bitching about small potatoes.
 
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