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Fox News is blaming viewers their tax returns are smaller this year

MTAtech said:
The mistake was voting for someone who intentionally changed what was deductible for the middle class (e.g. property taxes paid) for the purpose of screwing citizens of states that didn't vote for him. The property tax deduction is a long-standing middle-class deduction. Capping it hurts the middle-class in states that have high property taxes (because the voters want excellent schools.)

I'm willing to wait around to make this a 2020 campaign issue.
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Property tax changes effected only higher income people in tax heavy, aka BLUE, states.
 
lwf said:
True. But there is something to be said for the argument that the Trump administration should have anticipated this and warned people. Regardless of whether or not you ultimately came out ahead, it sucks counting on a return that doesn't materialize, or worse, being faced with an unexpected tax bill. This was a foreseeable hiccup by the administration. Focusing on the positive doesn't help those supporters who bounced checks assuming things were business as usual, even if it was technically their own error.
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How exactly would the administration KNOW the individual tax situations of every single employee? It's up to the employers to get employees to submit new W-4s.
 
noonereal said:
No.

The new tables for weekly withholding was the problem. (if you think it was a problem)

You should not have needed to make any changes on your W-4.
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I don't think there was a problem, but since workers can't change withholding tables their only choice would be to change exemptions.
 
Bullseye said:
I don't think there was a problem, but since workers can't change withholding tables their only choice would be to change exemptions.
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But how would they know a lower % would be deducted? It should not have been. It should have been the same %.

This "problem" is because of the tax tables released for weekly deductions not with W-4's.
 
Mycroft said:
Stupid Americans need someone to hold their hand and tell them what to do.

Anyone who actually bothered to know what was in the tax reform would have known what was going to happen.

I have zero sympathy for them.
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Your comment reminds me of the trope that Social Security is bad, that people could make more money by investing it themselves. Most of us don’t have time or inclination to study prospectuses, or in this case, tax laws. Yes, there are people who watch business channels, but most of us jack off to other entertainment. The government could have reduced tax breaks for the 1% by 1% and paid for public service ads or other things to warn us lesser folks.
 
noonereal said:
But how would they know a lower % would be deducted? It should not have been. It should have been the same %.

This "problem" is because of the tax tables released for weekly deductions not with W-4's.
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Yeah, ok. Whatever.
 
Bullseye said:
Yeah, ok. Whatever.
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I am just trying to help you understand, no need for an attitude.

I could care less about it, it does not effect me as I work for myself.
 
noonereal said:
I am just trying to help you understand, no need for an attitude.

I could care less about it, it does not effect me as I work for myself.
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Sorry, didn't mean to throw attitude. I just know that the HR where I worked put out a email saying tax laws would affect us and we should look at how much we were withholding and offering help figuring it all out. Several of my colleagues took them up on the offer. Thing is that we're fairly highly compensated and live in California where the SALT cap could be a big ouch.
 
Bullseye said:
Sorry, didn't mean to throw attitude. I just know that the HR where I worked put out a email saying tax laws would affect us and we should look at how much we were withholding and offering help figuring it all out. Several of my colleagues took them up on the offer.
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i understand. I have been on both sides of payroll and know how it works.

Not to be repetitive but the new tables issued were more generous than the old tables in regards to weekly deductions. This is what caused the issues.

You are always free to make changes on your W-4. No other tax reduction has resulted in a W-4 needing to be changed as this one obviously did that is because of the changes in the tables.

Again, my guess is that this was purposely done so the tax payer felt a bigger savings immediately.
 
So the withholding tables were adjusted. Everyone was told they were adjusted. Everyone was told to check your withholdings....

Yet it’s someone’s else fault when there is a what? 6% difference?

GTFO. This isn’t even news. Just more TDS.
 
noonereal said:
LOL, you started out alright "paying less tax each payday, you are getting a tax break" but screwed up at the end "you are less likely to get as large of a return at the end ".

If the tax withholding was set the same you would have gotten more each week and more at year end. For some reason the weekly withholding was set lower than previous years.

My guess it that it was done to make more of an impact sooner. Problem is what we are seeing now.
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It was done so people would think they had gotten a big tax break at the time of the 2018 election.
 
NeverTrump said:
In the alt-right it's perfectly fine to blame the victim, especially victims of cons. Not all of us can have a time machine or a high paying gig on Fox News as a TV host Mr. Charles Payne

As Americans begin to prepare their 2018 federal tax returns, many are facing the unpleasant surprise that their tax refunds will be smaller this year or that they may even owe money to the government. This comes despite — or perhaps because of — the tax bill passed by the Republican Congress in late 2017 and signed by President Donald Trump, which Trump falsely promised would give everyone a tax cut, but actually raised taxes on many middle class Americans.

On Wednesday, Fox & Friends attempted to spin the situation, blaming taxpayers who should have somehow known to have adjust their withholding a year ago and should have saved more.

Noting that the average tax refund has dropped 8.4 percent since last year, guest and Fox Business Network host Charles Payne claimed Americans should have used their “fatter paychecks” more wisely.
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Fox News tells Americans to stop complaining about their shrunken tax refunds
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Red:
Oh, my effing God!

That remark is "stupid on steroids."
  1. Does the gov't pay interest on the sums it over-withholds and later remits as tax refunds? No.
  2. Is that financial reason enough to warrant retaining possession and use of one's money during the year? Yes.
  3. Does the financial sagacity of that make for a more coherent argument in favor of folks' receiving smaller tax refunds, particularly in concert with most folks' overall 2018 federal income tax liability having been lowered? Yes.
  4. Is that more coherent line the one Fox & Friends (F&F) personalities/guests used? No.
    • Why do you suppose they didn't?
      • They really don't care about the substance of the matter; they're just out to say something that sounds good.
      • They haven't a clue about money, accounting and finance, and they also didn't bother to ask someone who does.
      • They aren't "big picture" thinkers, or perhaps thinkers at all.
  5. Is the size of folks refunds a topic the F&F crew should have addressed? No.
  6. Are some of the griping taxpayers/viewers Trumpkins? Yes.
  7. By chiding the griping taxpayers for not revising their withholding rates so as to receive larger refunds, are the F&F hosts tacitly declaring Trumpkins too stupid/ignorant/indolent to aptly manage their own financial affairs by availing themselves of one the most basic techniques for doing so? Yes.
    • Do Trumpkins/viewers know that, no matter whether they wanted a higher or lower refund, they were by the F&F hosts insulted? Definitely not!
      • And that is why F&F hosts have one of the best TV jobs around. What more can a banal bunch of commentators want more than to have a viewership that's too dumb to know when they've been called abject idiots? Not much, really. Life's really good when one's dumb and on TV, and one's audience is dumber even than oneself.
 
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NeverTrump said:
In the alt-right it's perfectly fine to blame the victim, especially victims of cons. Not all of us can have a time machine or a high paying gig on Fox News as a TV host Mr. Charles Payne


Fox News tells Americans to stop complaining about their shrunken tax refunds
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To be fair, at the time this took effect, EVERY news outlet I saw and read including the money smart type of shows, were warning people to do just that. It was even a Facebook thing. Many took the advice.
 
I love seeing how many TDSers in this thread use the govt as a savings account. It perfectly demonstrates how backwards they think as well as their lack of knowledge about why you should not strive to get a large tac return. Derp!
 
Mycroft said:
Stupid Americans need someone to hold their hand and tell them what to do.

Anyone who actually bothered to know what was in the tax reform would have known what was going to happen.

I have zero sympathy for them.
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See, I actually LOVE that Trump and Trump Republicans are taking this approach. Swing voters vote too.
 
MTAtech said:
The self-proclaimed populist president is against unions.

I wouldn't read too much into the plumber's psychology. American workers, especially pro-life conservative-leaning workers who listens to Rush Limbaugh, have a history of repeatedly voting agains their economic interests by voting for Republicans, that are less likely to protect worker safety, less likely to protect workers' jobs, and less likely to benefit workers economically.
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The populist president is pro-capitalism and unions are not. Since the populist president won, I guess the people are for capitalism, as well.
 
lwf said:
The administration should have warned people. That said, a smaller return is technically (slightly) more money in your pockets. The smaller your return, the less money you paid the government in the form of an interest free loan. Owing the government money at the end of the year is better than being entitled to a return, because you only owe the money required by your tax bracket, you won't owe the interest you potentially earned on it by not having it withheld in the first place. You technically come out ahead when you owe. But you're right: People should have been warned. Unexpected tax bills shouldn't still be happening in 2019.
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That (bolded above) has its limits. If you change your withholding to have less withheld than your last year's federal income tax liability then you may be charged penalties and interest. Without such, then everyone could have little (or nothing?) withheld, bank those funds in an interest bearing account and simply pay their (prior year's) taxes in April (of the following year).
 
lwf said:
The administration should have warned people. That said, a smaller return is technically (slightly) more money in your pockets. The smaller your return, the less money you paid the government in the form of an interest free loan. Owing the government money at the end of the year is better than being entitled to a return, because you only owe the money required by your tax bracket, you won't owe the interest you potentially earned on it by not having it withheld in the first place. You technically come out ahead when you owe. But you're right: People should have been warned. Unexpected tax bills shouldn't still be happening in 2019.
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One big tax break, for this year, that is overlooked, is connected to the ObamaCare mandate. If you recall, Judge Roberts and the Supreme Court threw Obama and the Democrats a bone, when it suggested that Obama Care was tax, and not a mandate that forced people to buy a product. The extra health care cost, under Obama, was a huge tax increase on the middle class that averages about $450/mo for a single person and about $1200/mo for a family. That is $6000/year for a single and $14,000 for a middle class family. For the average middle class family this is more than all their other taxes combined.

When Trump got rid of the mandate, he eliminated this tax, since it can no longer be called a tax, if it cannot be forcefully collected by the IRS via the mandate. Without the mandate, it is now an imposed free market choice, which is unconstitutional. This is huge hidden tax break, based on the legal games played by Obama and a counter punch performed by Trump.

People no longer need insurance, because it is no longer a forced tax. It is now a consumer choice. It is optional, but many people are afraid not to have it. There are many people, who are shelled shocked due to excessive use of force by the Democrats. It will be up to each person to decide how much tax break, they will give themselves. This can be done by dropping insurance, or by shopping around for cheaper plans that tailor to needs. Trump is also making it easier to shop around, so the hidden tax break can be as large as possible.
 
MTAtech said:
Sad thing is that some will vote for him again. The father-in-law of a colleague in my office is a plumber that did business with Trump. Sure enough, Trump stiffed him on payment -- and the plumber still voted for Trump!
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I have heard this story before.

And since it's back, I have some question of my own since you can get the truth by calling him up and asking him, plus running his license to make sure he was licensed when he did the work.

Was the plumber working directly for Trump personally?
Was the plumber working as a contractor on a Trump property?
Was the plumber working as a sub contractor on a Trump property?

Only one case makes Trump responsible to pay the plumber, and that is if Trump personally ordered the work be done in the property he lives in, and the plumber must have completed the job properly. And BTW, if the person a licensed and bonded plumber and the job was legitimate as described, he has the legal right to place a lien on the property, and Trump could have gone to the contractors board. When that happens the board either orders the plumber to pay or finish, or does nothing and the lien stands.
It it's a Trump property, a work order would have been issued for tax purposes since you write off maintenance on commercial properties, but not on your clogged sink at home.

I smell bull****.
 
wellwisher said:
One big tax break, for this year, that is overlooked, is connected to the ObamaCare mandate. If you recall, Judge Roberts and the Supreme Court threw Obama and the Democrats a bone, when it suggested that Obama Care was tax, and not a mandate that forced people to buy a product. The extra health care cost, under Obama, was a huge tax increase on the middle class that averages about $450/mo for a single person and about $1200/mo for a family. That is $6000/year for a single and $14,000 for a middle class family. For the average middle class family this is more than all their other taxes combined.

When Trump got rid of the mandate, he eliminated this tax, since it can no longer be called a tax, if it cannot be forcefully collected by the IRS via the mandate. Without the mandate, it is now an imposed free market choice, which is unconstitutional. This is huge hidden tax break, based on the legal games played by Obama and a counter punch performed by Trump.

People no longer need insurance, because it is no longer a forced tax. It is now a consumer choice. It is optional, but many people are afraid not to have it. There are many people, who are shelled shocked due to excessive use of force by the Democrats. It will be up to each person to decide how much tax break, they will give themselves. This can be done by dropping insurance, or by shopping around for cheaper plans that tailor to needs. Trump is also making it easier to shop around, so the hidden tax break can be as large as possible.
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Good points, but eliminating the mandate still ends up as free healthcare for those who can't afford to pay for it and the cost still comes out of our tax dollars. Making participation mandatory and collecting it as part of an income tax actually reduces the number of people who get the benefits of healthcare without paying for it. I'm in favor of a tax increase as long as that increase is being specifically used to provide healthcare to the community. The alternative is that taxes we paid that were meant for something else end up being used to cover those healthcare costs anyway, which recent history has shown is a broken system. Trump essentially re-broke the American Healthcare System.
 
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