New York Times: America Belongs to Immigrants, Israel Belongs to Jews

NYT writer Bret Stephens authored an opinion piece dated April 20, 2018, in which he lays out his reasoning for why Jewish people are endangered in Europe as the victims of such atrocities as name calling, vandalism against synagogues, and more. Stephens grew up as the son of a wealthy Jewish businessman, and was an editor at the Jerusalem Post in the early 2000's. He writes:

Jews cannot rely for their safety on the kindness of strangers, least of all French or German politicians. Post-Hitler Europe still has far to fall when it comes to it's attitude toward Jews. For Jews... Israel is their safeguard.

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He goes on to state why Israel shouldn't have to permit a certain group whom will remain nameless, from crossing Israeli border walls, and gaining entry.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/opinion/israel-70-anniversary-jews.html

But Stephens doesn't feel that America should be a safeguard for what he calls 'so-called real Americans whose families have been in this country for a few generations', a thinly veiled description of white Americans. In this piece from June 16, 2017, he writes:

Only mass deportation can save America. So called real-Americans are screwing up America. Maybe they should leave, so that we can replace them with new and better ones. I have always thought of America as a country that belongs first to it's newcomers.. who do the most to remake it so that our ideals, and our appeal may stay fresh.

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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/16/opinion/only-mass-deportation-can-save-america.html

Stephens tosses in an insincere retraction of his previous call to replace 'real-Americans' with immigrants, by saying "I'm just jesting", but his sentiments have been echoed in public by other neoconservatives like Bill Kristol, who joked about how great it would be to get rid of blue collar white folks, and replace them with immigrants.

Odd that the NYT would employ a regular columnist who expresses neoconservative views, given that the NYT seems to swing left most of the time. Or maybe it's not, and the NYT are what I've suspected they are- hypocrites who demand that Europe and the United States 'diversify' it's population with immigrants, while clinging to the nice racially pure WHITE ethnostate of Israel.

I think we should directly replace people who think America is a white Christian nation with immigrants who actually do value American ideals. No, whitey, nobody is coming for you, put the pitchfork down, you're not a victim no matter how much you want to be.

RabidAlpaca said:

I think we should directly replace people who think America is a white Christian nation with immigrants who actually do value American ideals. No, whitey, nobody is coming for you, put the pitchfork down, you're not a victim no matter how much you want to be.

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Ah, spoken like a true expat living in a non-Pluralistic, white society. Enjoy that freshly squeezed hypocrisy this morning! ‎Abschied!

truthatallcost said:

Ah, spoken like a true expat living in a non-Pluralistic, white society. Enjoy that freshly squeezed hypocrisy this morning! ‎Abschied!

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I'm not an expat nor do I live in a non-plularistic white society. With the exception of the vanishingly small number of nazis, basically nobody here is whining about how hard it is to be white and that people of other skin colors aren't welcome. Your calls for white ethnocentrism are firmly rejected as anti-American. Keep crying and self-victimizing. The struggles you must go through being a white American. That's true bravery. :roll:

Last I looked, the Constitution doesn't call a culture, race, or religion, "American". It defines an American as one that takes an oath & swears allegiance to it. If it's good enough for the Constitution, it's good enough for me!

Chomsky said:

Last I looked, the Constitution doesn't call a culture, race, or religion, "American". It defines an American as one that takes an oath & swears allegiance to it. If it's good enough for the Constitution, it's good enough for me!

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I'm not disputing any of that, just the hypocrisy of some Americans who openly want a non-white America, and a whites only Israel.

truthatallcost said:

I'm not disputing any of that, just the hypocrisy of some Americans who openly want a non-white America, and a whites only Israel.

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What about the outright unbridled bigotry of assholes who want a whites-only America and a whites-only Israel? All ethno-centrists are scum bags, whether they're American, Israeli, Russian, or anything else.

truthatallcost said:

I'm not disputing any of that, just the hypocrisy of some Americans who openly want a non-white America, and a whites only Israel.

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Yeah, I wasn't exactly sure of the point, so I just tossed my overarching guiding philosophy out there!

truthatallcost said:

NYT writer Bret Stephens authored an opinion piece dated April 20, 2018, in which he lays out his reasoning for why Jewish people are endangered in Europe as the victims of such atrocities as name calling, vandalism against synagogues, and more. Stephens grew up as the son of a wealthy Jewish businessman, and was an editor at the Jerusalem Post in the early 2000's. He writes:



He goes on to state why Israel shouldn't have to permit a certain group whom will remain nameless, from crossing Israeli border walls, and gaining entry.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/opinion/israel-70-anniversary-jews.html

But Stephens doesn't feel that America should be a safeguard for what he calls 'so-called real Americans whose families have been in this country for a few generations', a thinly veiled description of white Americans. In this piece from June 16, 2017, he writes:



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/16/opinion/only-mass-deportation-can-save-america.html

Stephens tosses in an insincere retraction of his previous call to replace 'real-Americans' with immigrants, by saying "I'm just jesting", but his sentiments have been echoed in public by other neoconservatives like Bill Kristol, who joked about how great it would be to get rid of blue collar white folks, and replace them with immigrants.

Odd that the NYT would employ a regular columnist who expresses neoconservative views, given that the NYT seems to swing left most of the time. Or maybe it's not, and the NYT are what I've suspected they are- hypocrites who demand that Europe and the United States 'diversify' it's population with immigrants, while clinging to the nice racially pure WHITE ethnostate of Israel.

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You said it was an "opinion piece". Don't you understand what an opinion is, taac? Even Trump has expressed his opinion in the NYT...several times in fact.

Neo-conservatives were liberal war hawks that switched parties, mostly under Reagan.

The NYT hired Judith Miller...so it's not really that odd that the NYT would hire neo-conservatives.


Anyway, the author is right about America being a melting pot and immigrants help build this country. It never was an all white Christian nation...ever.

RabidAlpaca said:

What about the outright unbridled bigotry of assholes who want a whites-only America and a whites-only Israel? All ethno-centrists are scum bags, whether they're American, Israeli, Russian, or anything else.

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What about the assholes who rail day in and day out about a phantom white nationalist menace to America, while ignoring a white nationalist foreign ally that lobbies the House of Representatives through a foreign lobbying firm? Hmm? The assholes who ignore the 4,400 dead American men and boys who fought a proxy war in Iraq, for a racist ethnostate? The assholes who are pushing us to war with Syria, Iran, and possibly Russia, because a country that's 7,000 miles away wants us to "secure the realm" for their future expansionist, imperialistic plans.

Oh boy, tell me moar about how a hundred hillbillies with tiki torches are plotting to bring down America.... Give me a break.

Chomsky said:

Yeah, I wasn't exactly sure of the point, so I just tossed my overarching guiding philosophy out there!

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Always appreciated Chomsky. Feel welcome on any thread I happen to compose.

Moot said:

You said it was an "opinion piece". Don't you understand what an opinion is, taac? Even Trump has expressed his opinion in the NYT...several times in fact.

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Sure Moot, I understand that the Times pays the author to put his opinions into the paper, and that way they can claim no responsibility for what he says.

Neo-conservatives were liberal war hawks that switched parties, mostly under Reagan.

The NYT hired Judith Miller...so it's not really that odd that the NYT would hire neo-conservatives.

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Why neocons though? They are fringier than I am!

Did the NYT fire Miller after the Scooter Libby debacle?

Anyway, the author is right about America being a melting pot and immigrants help build this country. It never was an all white Christian nation...ever.

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Well, 90%+ white & Christian isn't technically " an all white Christian nation " but you'll admit it's damn close.

I'm for diversity that strengthens the country, NOT diversity that strengthens one particular political parties chances of winning elections, OR diversity for the sake of higher corporate profit.

RabidAlpaca said:

I'm not an expat nor do I live in a non-plularistic white society.

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Location: American in Europe

With the exception of the vanishingly small number of nazis, basically nobody here is whining about how hard it is to be white and that people of other skin colors aren't welcome.

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Why would they? It's 93% white.

Your calls for white ethnocentrism are firmly rejected as anti-American. Keep crying and self-victimizing. The struggles you must go through being a white American. That's true bravery. :roll:

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Hyperbole stopped impressing me a long time ago Alpaca.

RabidAlpaca said:

I think we should directly replace people who think America is a white Christian nation with immigrants who actually do value American ideals. No, whitey, nobody is coming for you, put the pitchfork down, you're not a victim no matter how much you want to be.

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No one is a victim just by virtue of inclusion in a specific group. That goes for whites, blacks, Jews, etc. Victimization is a personal and individual status, and anyone who claims they are a victim based on their religion or the color of their skin, is missing out on what life is all about.

truthatallcost said:

What about the assholes who rail day in and day out about a phantom white nationalist menace to America, while ignoring a white nationalist foreign ally that lobbies the House of Representatives through a foreign lobbying firm? Hmm? The assholes who ignore the 4,400 dead American men and boys who fought a proxy war in Iraq, for a racist ethnostate? The assholes who are pushing us to war with Syria, Iran, and possibly Russia, because a country that's 7,000 miles away wants us to "secure the realm" for their future expansionist, imperialistic plans.

Oh boy, tell me moar about how a hundred hillbillies with tiki torches are plotting to bring down America.... Give me a break.

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You just referred to Europe as "white society" then said I'm hypocritical and can't understand your peril because I live there. It sounds like you're one of the ones carrying tiki torches and screaming white power. There is no such thing as a "white society", this is wildly racist and anti-American.

HowardBThiname said:

No one is a victim just by virtue of inclusion in a specific group. That goes for whites, blacks, Jews, etc. Victimization is a personal and individual status, and anyone who claims they are a victim based on their religion or the color of their skin, is missing out on what life is all about.

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Which is why I called out the OP for his pathetic victimization and using racist buzz words like "white society". You can feel free to direct your commentary to him where it belongs.

Chomsky said:

Last I looked, the Constitution doesn't call a culture, race, or religion, "American". It defines an American as one that takes an oath & swears allegiance to it. If it's good enough for the Constitution, it's good enough for me!

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That's all that really matters. Not skin color.

The other thing is -- Israel really does belong to Jews. Not white Jews or black Jews, but to the Jewish race, in general, as it was designed from its inception. That doesn't mean others can't live there -- after all -- over 1.5 million Arabs live in Israel and serve in the government. But the purpose of Israel, from the beginning, was to offer that religious following a safe place away from the 2,000 years of pogroms its people suffered at the hands of antisemites.

And yes, Israel has to protect its borders. History is evidence of that. Those who would breach Israel's borders don't want to join the nation and be contributing citizens. They want to destroy it. That's different than the immigrants/foreigners who come to the US. Well, for the most part -- we have seen some come with the specific intent to harm us (911 hijackers, San Bernadino terrorists, etc.). Most immigrants to the US want to come here and become contributing citizens. Both nations have every right to secure and protect its borders, but Israel is obviously at a greater threat than the US is.

RabidAlpaca said:

You just referred to Europe as "white society"

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I was referring to Germany. Do you know anything about where you live?

then said I'm hypocritical

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You are. It's a trademark of white liberals from America.

and can't understand your peril because I live there.

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That's a lie. You can't produce any such statement.

It sounds like you're one of the ones carrying tiki torches and screaming white power. There is no such thing as a "white society", this is wildly racist and anti-American.

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My god...i look at the fact that you have more likes than comments, and scratch my head in confusion of why. Tell me how its anti-American to call Germany, or ANY European country for that matter, a white society.

Then explain how it's not anti-American for you to say that white Americans should be deported, based on ideology differences you have with them.

Which is why I called out the OP for his pathetic victimization and using racist buzz words like "white society". You can feel free to direct your commentary to him where it belongs.

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Germany's society is white. It always has been. When and if it ceases to be, you'll move to another society that happens to be white. Maybe Israel will be the only one left by that point, and you can mozaltov.

HowardBThiname said:

The other thing is -- Israel really does belong to Jews. Not white Jews or black Jews, but to the Jewish race, in general, as it was designed from its inception. That doesn't mean others can't live there -- after all -- over 1.5 million Arabs live in Israel and serve in the government. But the purpose of Israel, from the beginning, was to offer that religious following a safe place away from the 2,000 years of pogroms its people suffered at the hands of antisemites.

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Wait...so your religion determines your race? :doh And any country that is founded on one particular religion makes it the eternal property of people who practice that religion? Or does this only apply to people of the Jewish religion?

And yes, Israel has to protect its borders. History is evidence of that. Those who would breach Israel's borders don't want to join the nation and be contributing citizens. They want to destroy it.

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So the 16,000 black Africans that Israel publicly referred to as 'infiltrators', and deported recently were there to destroy Israel?

That's different than the immigrants/foreigners who come to the US. Well, for the most part -- we have seen some come with the specific intent to harm us (911 hijackers, San Bernadino terrorists, etc.). Most immigrants to the US want to come here and become contributing citizens. Both nations have every right to secure and protect its borders, but Israel is obviously at a greater threat than the US is.

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I agree that both nations have that right. I don't agree with Americans of Jewish decent having a double standard about immigration however, wanting to keep Israel sacred and protected from change, while demanding it of Americans. There would be no Israel without the help of the British and Americans, and it seems to me that Israel takes us for granted and plays us as fools.

truthatallcost said:

Odd that the NYT would employ a regular columnist who expresses neoconservative views, given that the NYT seems to swing left most of the time. Or maybe it's not, and the NYT are what I've suspected they are- hypocrites who demand that Europe and the United States 'diversify' it's population with immigrants, while clinging to the nice racially pure WHITE ethnostate of Israel.

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I can't agree that the NYT swings left most of the time. They may have decades ago. But for the last two decades at least, they have been a pro-capitalist, pro-war publication. You probably recall that they were a major player in the biggest fake news scandal of the 21st century: the selling of the invasion of Iraq in 2003. They also fired Chris Hedges for being anti-war. They certainly do some good reporting on other subjects, e.g. books and culture. But when they are reporting on war or foreign policy or progressive politicians like Bernie Sanders, they are mainly capitalist war machine propaganda.

Aspasia said:

I can't agree that the NYT swings left most of the time. They may have decades ago. But for the last two decades at least, they have been a pro-capitalist, pro-war publication.

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Perhaps pro-DNC is a more fitting description.

You probably recall that they were a major player in the biggest fake news scandal of the 21st century: the selling of the invasion of Iraq in 2003. They also fired Chris Hedges for being anti-war. They certainly do some good reporting on other subjects, e.g. books and culture. But when they are reporting on war or foreign policy or progressive politicians like Bernie Sanders, they are mainly capitalist war machine propaganda.

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Excellent take. IIRC, they also fired a columnist for literally fabricating his entire articles in the mid 2000's. They were fake news before that term was a common part of our national lexicon.

HowardBThiname said:

The other thing is -- Israel really does belong to Jews. Not white Jews or black Jews, but to the Jewish race, in general, as it was designed from its inception. That doesn't mean others can't live there -- after all -- over 1.5 million Arabs live in Israel and serve in the government. But the purpose of Israel, from the beginning, was to offer that religious following a safe place away from the 2,000 years of pogroms its people suffered at the hands of antisemites.

And yes, Israel has to protect its borders. History is evidence of that. Those who would breach Israel's borders don't want to join the nation and be contributing citizens. They want to destroy it. That's different than the immigrants/foreigners who come to the US. Well, for the most part -- we have seen some come with the specific intent to harm us (911 hijackers, San Bernadino terrorists, etc.). Most immigrants to the US want to come here and become contributing citizens. Both nations have every right to secure and protect its borders, but Israel is obviously at a greater threat than the US is.

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In the Old Testament, Jacob, who was also called Israel, had twelve sons and heirs, from two wives and two concubines. These sons would become the patriarchs of the twelve tribes of Israel. Joseph was the patriarch of the Jews, which is one of the twelve tribes. There are eleven other tribes who share the inheritance, called Israel. These other tribes have not yet been fully differentiated, so they can accept their share of the land promised by Jacob.

The ten lost tribes were the ten of the twelve tribes of ancient Israel that were said to have been deported from the Kingdom of Israel after its conquest by the Neo-Assyrian Empire circa 722 BCE. These are the tribes of Reuben, Simeon, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Manasseh and Ephraim.

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Genetic testing of Jews and Arabs show they both have common ancestors. Jacob is not just a prophet of the Jews and Christians, but he is also a prophet in Islam. Peace in the Middle East will require finding the lost tribes, and restoring the original twelve tribe inheritance.



As far as white supremacy and white guilt in America, there is math problem that the Democrats are trying to cover up with deception. If you recall, President Lincoln and the Republican party were against slavery. The Democrats were the party of slaves. The Civil War was not just a war to maintain the Union, but it was also a war to end slavery. The net affect was the white Republicans, from the time of Lincoln, paid it forward, with hundreds of thousands of white Republican deaths, fighting the war to end slavery. If we wish to do a calculation, what is the value of a human life and then multiply that by 200,000. The white Republicans at the time of Lincoln, paid their dues, in advance. White Republicans are paid up to the tunes of $trillions.

The white Democrats, during the civil war, doubled down for slavery. They sacrificed hundreds of thousands of fellow Democrats, but to maintain slavery. The never paid for their shady past, but doubled the debt for their fellow Democrats of the future. The white Democrats own white guilt, since they never paid anything forward, but doubled down on slavery, then doubled down on segregation and then on discrimination.

The northern Democrats did pay down some of the Democrat debt, starting in the 1950's and 1960's; Civil Rights. This was sort of cancelled by souther Democrats, with a slight net payment. This was a start, but it was small change compared to 200,000 Republican lives offered to end slavery during the Civil War. The comparison is, we have the price of a human life, versus part time work.

The modern Democrats, the party of fake news, is trying to pull a sleaze play. They are in denial for their own inherited guilt and are trying to spread Democrat guilt to all whites, including Republicans who are already paid up due to the generosity of their past. This sleaze play means they are adding debt, again. They never learn. What I would do is create laws that will start the Democrat on a restitution path, for their exclusive white guilt, until they catch up to the Republicans.

truthatallcost said:

Sure Moot, I understand that the Times pays the author to put his opinions into the paper, and that way they can claim no responsibility for what he says.

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Can't say for sure, but I don't think the NYT pays for op-eds...because it's "free" speech...and anyone can submit an op-ed....

https://help.nytimes.com/hc/en-us/articles/115014809107-How-to-submit-an-Op-Ed-article

Why neocons though? They are fringier than I am!

Did the NYT fire Miller after the Scooter Libby debacle?

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Neocons means new conservative...and yes, they are kinda fringy. You should read up on them.

Not sure if she was fired or resigned....just that she identified with neo conservatives in the Bush administration.

Well, 90%+ white & Christian isn't technically " an all white Christian nation " but you'll admit it's damn close.

I'm for diversity that strengthens the country, NOT diversity that strengthens one particular political parties chances of winning elections, OR diversity for the sake of higher corporate profit.

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The native population far outnumbered white europeons in early years of the country. At one point, blacks outnumbered whites in some southern states...and the Spanish/Mexicans outnumbered whites in the southwest...then add all the mixed races...and America was never close to being 90% white.

https://nerdgeeks.co/ancestry-us-ma...ere-americans-come-from-and-who-we-really-are

truthatallcost said:

Perhaps pro-DNC is a more fitting description.



Excellent take. IIRC, they also fired a columnist for literally fabricating his entire articles in the mid-2000's. They were fake news before that term was a common part of our national lexicon.

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Firing someone for plagiarism suggests they corrected the problem....and you can't say that about FoxNews or Brietbart.

wellwisher said:

In the Old Testament, Jacob, who was also called Israel, had twelve sons and heirs, from two wives and two concubines. These sons would become the patriarchs of the twelve tribes of Israel. Joseph was the patriarch of the Jews, which is one of the twelve tribes. There are eleven other tribes who share the inheritance, called Israel. These other tribes have not yet been fully differentiated, so they can accept their share of the land promised by Jacob.

Genetic testing of Jews and Arabs show they both have common ancestors. Jacob is not just a prophet of the Jews and Christians, but he is also a prophet in Islam. Peace in the Middle East will require finding the lost tribes, and restoring the original twelve tribe inheritance.

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While I support Israel as a Jewish state, I do so only because of the history of persecution against Jews and strategic alliance reasons, not for any religious reasons.

As far as white supremacy and white guilt in America, there is math problem that the Democrats are trying to cover up with deception. If you recall, President Lincoln and the Republican party were against slavery. The Democrats were the party of slaves. The Civil War was not just a war to maintain the Union, but it was also a war to end slavery. The net affect was the white Republicans, from the time of Lincoln, paid it forward, with hundreds of thousands of white Republican deaths, fighting the war to end slavery. If we wish to do a calculation, what is the value of a human life and then multiply that by 200,000. The white Republicans at the time of Lincoln, paid their dues, in advance. White Republicans are paid up to the tunes of $trillions.

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This I agree with. No guilt should remain.

The white Democrats, during the civil war, doubled down for slavery. They sacrificed hundreds of thousands of fellow Democrats, but to maintain slavery. The never paid for their shady past, but doubled the debt for their fellow Democrats of the future. The white Democrats own white guilt, since they never paid anything forward, but doubled down on slavery, then doubled down on segregation and then on discrimination.

The northern Democrats did pay down some of the Democrat debt, starting in the 1950's and 1960's; Civil Rights. This was sort of cancelled by souther Democrats, with a slight net payment. This was a start, but it was small change compared to 200,000 Republican lives offered to end slavery during the Civil War. The comparison is, we have the price of a human life, versus part time work.

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No white guilt should remain here, either. The Dixiecrats softened, some remaining in the Dem party, others switching to the GOP, but as a nation, we've all progressed and there's no reason to keep a tainted past alive, in my opinion.