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Thread: Trump To Announce Most Corrupt & Dishonest Media Award Next Week

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    Re: Trump To Announce Most Corrupt & Dishonest Media Award Next Week

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    There is a difference between legitimate criticism (of the government) and the political propaganda currently being delivered by the 'news' media outlets.

    Just have too look how often they get it wrong, most recently the dishonestly about Trump's mental faculties.
    Is this what you are accepting as news?
    Fact?
    Information with which the electorate is going to make voting decision with?
    You mean him saying that he sold F55 planes to Norway, or that it was Obamas fault that the US got a crappy deal with the new London embassy? That is just the last 24 hours. There is a clear problem with his mental faculties.. it is not normal for people to claim they are stable geniuses. The man has either dementia, or Alzheimers. He should have his head checked by independent people, and not his usual doctors.. doctors that we know lied about his true health.

    It is none of these things. It is a political attack in support of a political agenda. Manipulating their audiences.
    Media which furthers those things is engaging in political propaganda, being an actor on the political stage and a political activist rather than a reporter of political news.

    Such media is deserving of criticism.
    The media are just repeating what he is saying... for the most part. Sure there are leaks from his White House, that cant be confirmed, but considering the consistency and his past behavior, those leaks seem more and more realistic in nature.

    The solution is for the electorate to become aware and enraged at the media's overt manipulation, to demand less of the political propaganda, and more of factual reporting, rather than meekly accepting the tripe they are serving up.
    Well that aint gonna happen with the right wing media. They have been massively manipulating for decades, pushing lies and conspiracy theories and still do.

    To some extent this is already happening, given the falling credibility and trust in the lame stream media. But frankly, it can't happen deeply enough nor fast enough.
    Yes the trust issue... the problem is that the right wing media sphere in the US political spectrum has "won". CNN does something wrong and the world falls around them, but Fox News does something wrong and they get away with very little criticism. It has been like that for decades. It should be the non-Fox News outlets that should be fighting back against the attacks to their credibility over relatively small issue, especially compared to what Fox News and Briebart like sites push out of lies.

    Frankly, I can't fathom why do you see this as the threat it is to the Republic, this mass manipulation of the electorate to political agenda and political ends. Do you really like been spoon fed tribe, parrot their manipulating talking points? Are your liberties really that unimportant to you?
    The problem is not the "liberal media".. it is the alt right crap like Briebart and Fox News.. they are the ones that manipulate their viewers with lies and half truths. Just look at Fox News DEFENDING Donalds racist remarks... come on.. There has to be a limit. Fox News and Co consistently mislead their audiences.. there is evidence of this.. that Fox News viewers believed and some still do, that Saddam was behind 9/11.. because on Fox News no one pushed back when the Bush administration tried to push this lie. In fact Fox News was the cheerleader in chief for many of the lies of the Bush administration and now the Trump administration.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Trump To Announce Most Corrupt & Dishonest Media Award Next Week

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Fine. Just making an observation of what it seems like what's going on.

    So in conclusion, criticizing the media, even for the president (or do free speech rights not extend to him) is 1st amend. privileges and is allowed, at least for now, and secondly, the present disgrace the media is, it certainly deserves criticism, fourth, in order for the press to enjoy its protecting privileges they have to be a purveyor of factual and unbiased information in the form of news to the electorate.

    We are already experiencing media editorial decisions that don't report or minimize negatives stories about liberal politicians, while also exaggerating negative stories on conservative politicians, essentially executing a media coup on non-liberal politicians. Journalistic standards have massively fallen in favor of this political propaganda. This is dangerous and a threat to the well being of the Republic.

    I've done my best to share my observations and thoughts on the matter, perhaps I've swayed and you've not let on, but probably not. Doesn't matter, it allowed me the opportunity to formalize my thoughts on the matter, for that, I thank you and your patience.
    Being president does mean that the president cannot just say and do whatever he likes. There are a lot of jobs that are like that. A customer service employee cannot tell customers to **** off without being fired. Sure Trump has 1st Amendment rights but he cannot say whatever he pleases as president. Currently he learned that again and is denying that he said "****hole countries". According yo your argument he has the right to say whatever he pleases. That just isnt true.


    You free to not listen, watch or read any privately owned media news outlet. No one is forcing you to listen, watch or read anything. ANd obviously you were not convinced by said news outlets at all. It sounds like to me you just dont like hearing things that you do not agree with. And Trump is the reason that we are talking about that. Trump/the president has been telling you to think the things that you have been asserting to me. Its a broad accusation of the media that I have a problem with, but Trump and most likely you do not really mean the entirety of the media Trump just means the media that disagrees with him. That to me is a president criticizing the media in a corrupt way.

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    Re: Trump To Announce Most Corrupt & Dishonest Media Award Next Week

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Being president does mean that the president cannot just say and do whatever he likes.
    So, then, your position is that the President can't criticize the media. Does that include previous presidents as well?

    OBAMA: If you watch Fox News, you are living on a different planet [Cheers and applause] than you are if you, you know, listen to NPR.
    https://www.mrctv.org/embed/526496
    Clearly a criticizsm of Fox News and an accolade of NPR.

    There are a lot of jobs that are like that. A customer service employee cannot tell customers to **** off without being fired. Sure Trump has 1st Amendment rights but he cannot say whatever he pleases as president. Currently he learned that again and is denying that he said "****hole countries".
    There is question as to the veracity of those comments, made in a private meeting, and related by Democrat politicians. That being said, the comment is not a racist one, and is factual, in the yes, there are some countries that really are ****holes. What it isn't is racist, as it is commenting about a country and not the people in it. What would be more racist and bigoted is the 'diversity immigration / visa lottery', in that applicants are chosen based on which country they are coming from, rather than each on their own merits. But that is for another thread.

    According yo your argument he has the right to say whatever he pleases. That just isnt true.
    So then your position is that the President of the US loses his 1st amendment speech rights then. OK. All I'll remind you is that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticizsm, and certainly President Trump receives more than his fair share of that, some legitimate, most, especially from the media, not legitimate.

    You free to not listen, watch or read any privately owned media news outlet. No one is forcing you to listen, watch or read anything.
    I'll grant you that, however, that still doesn't mean that the 'news' political propaganda media isn't manipulating the electorate and isn't causing the damage to the nation and the same electorate that I've posted about.

    ANd obviously you were not convinced by said news outlets at all. It sounds like to me you just dont like hearing things that you do not agree with.
    Here I think you are wrong from the stand point that legitimate criticism on facts and on policy is valued, political propaganda, which is what the US 'news' media has descended into, isn't.

    And Trump is the reason that we are talking about that. Trump/the president has been telling you to think the things that you have been asserting to me.
    Actually, no, I've been bitching about biased media well before the Trump campaign and the Trump presidency.

    Its a broad accusation of the media that I have a problem with, but Trump and most likely you do not really mean the entirety of the media Trump just means the media that disagrees with him. That to me is a president criticizing the media in a corrupt way.
    I see. Appears that you hold the 'news' media completely unaccountable for their obvious bias, their overt pushing of their political agenda, their distortions and their dishonest editorial decision making, beholden to none, answerable to none, and unassailable, regardless of whether the 'news' are becoming, and wanting to become, Orwell's "ministry of truth".
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    Re: Trump To Announce Most Corrupt & Dishonest Media Award Next Week

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    You mean him saying that he sold F55 planes to Norway, or that it was Obamas fault that the US got a crappy deal with the new London embassy? That is just the last 24 hours. There is a clear problem with his mental faculties.. it is not normal for people to claim they are stable geniuses. The man has either dementia, or Alzheimers. He should have his head checked by independent people, and not his usual doctors.. doctors that we know lied about his true health.
    Meh. Diagnosis from afar is both inaccurate and against American Psychiatric Association's (APA) Principles of Medical Ethics[1] so who known exactly what sort of 'doctors' who are rending these opinions. Fair to say that those who violate their profession's ethics should have their opinions held in skeptical regard. You mention "doctors that we know lied about his true health", I'd ask for a citation for that, and not from some leftist political propaganda or leftists biased site, please.

    The media are just repeating what he is saying... for the most part.
    Or they just fabricate it as needed for their narrative, and then issue a retraction a day or two later, buried on page 9, so as to hide it.

    Sure there are leaks from his White House, that cant be confirmed, but considering the consistency and his past behavior, those leaks seem more and more realistic in nature.
    Sure, sure, if you already believe the single source anonymous source (i.e. potentially fabricated), sure, then you'll believe every other single source anonymous source story for the same reasons, probably.

    Well that aint gonna happen with the right wing media. They have been massively manipulating for decades, pushing lies and conspiracy theories and still do.
    Yeah, I get it. To you it's little more than left=good, right=bad.

    If you care note, all I'm after is

    accurate, factual, non-manipulative, non-agenda pushing=good,
    inaccurate, not factual, manipulative, agenda pushing=bad

    Consider this. Walter Cronkite for years delivered the news and was the reference for accurate and integrity. Trust between his viewers, him and the news he was delivering developed. It wasn't until years after his retirement it was found that he held some very far left views. In modern times Chris Wallace is of similar stock. He too leans left, but it doesn't make a difference in his reporting, he asks the same very tough interview questions of his interviewers regardless of which side of the political spectrum. I applaud them both.

    Never said that the alt-right was worth the time or consideration, because they don't get either from me.

    Yes the trust issue... the problem is that the right wing media sphere in the US political spectrum has "won". CNN does something wrong and the world falls around them, but Fox News does something wrong and they get away with very little criticism. It has been like that for decades. It should be the non-Fox News outlets that should be fighting back against the attacks to their credibility over relatively small issue, especially compared to what Fox News and Briebart like sites push out of lies.

    The problem is not the "liberal media".. it is the alt right crap like Briebart and Fox News.. they are the ones that manipulate their viewers with lies and half truths. Just look at Fox News DEFENDING Donalds racist remarks... come on.. There has to be a limit. Fox News and Co consistently mislead their audiences.. there is evidence of this.. that Fox News viewers believed and some still do, that Saddam was behind 9/11.. because on Fox News no one pushed back when the Bush administration tried to push this lie. In fact Fox News was the cheerleader in chief for many of the lies of the Bush administration and now the Trump administration.
    Sorry, but you lack credibility on this coming from the EU who's media is even further left than the US media. Do please note, this isn't an endorsement of Breitbart and what Bannon turned that into.
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    Re: Trump To Announce Most Corrupt & Dishonest Media Award Next Week

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    So, then, your position is that the President can't criticize the media. Does that include previous presidents as well?
    Wait what does that have to do with what you quoted? I asserted that the President doesnt really have freedom of speech because he is the president and saying the wrong thing can incite riots, cause wars, destroy the economy etc, many of which can be crimes. and worse.
    Clearly a criticizsm of Fox News and an accolade of NPR.
    And it agreed by most political analysts that it was wrong of the president to say that. At any rate at best you are trying to argue if it was ok for Obama then...its ok for the current president. And I say that two wrongs do not make a right. So just give up on your attempt to troll a hypocritical response. I have liked a president in my entire probably never will. I feel that the framers made it clear that us voting public should treat politicians as the enemy and never cut them a break or give them the benefit of doubt, because they are probably guilty of whatever they are be accused of at some time.
    There is question as to the veracity of those comments, made in a private meeting, and related by Democrat politicians. That being said, the comment is not a racist one, and is factual, in the yes, there are some countries that really are ****holes. What it isn't is racist, as it is commenting about a country and not the people in it. What would be more racist and bigoted is the 'diversity immigration / visa lottery', in that applicants are chosen based on which country they are coming from, rather than each on their own merits. But that is for another thread.
    Of course you would ignore my point and go right into trying to protect the president. My argument (despite you being easly distracted) is that President has a duty to not say the wrong things as president that can go against the oath of the president. If you seriously think that the President can say just whatever the **** he wants you are grossly wrong. The president at best has a limited freedom of speech with many conditions.
    So then your position is that the President of the US loses his 1st amendment speech rights then. OK. All I'll remind you is that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticizsm, and certainly President Trump receives more than his fair share of that, some legitimate, most, especially from the media, not legitimate.
    Yes the President of the United States of America does not enjoy freedom of speech. As I said the presidents words have power, and that power can easily be abused by speech alone. Of course the presoideny could say anything that he wants, but if what he says isnt Constitutional then there will be consequences. Remember Presidential directives are only speech. Proclamations that go against the oath of office are impeachable offenses. Lying as the president is also impeachable. The president does not enjoy the same freedoms that ordinary citizens do. In some case the president has extra freedoms that we do not have in other cases the president isnt anywhere as free as the ordinary citizen.
    I'll grant you that, however, that still doesn't mean that the 'news' political propaganda media isn't manipulating the electorate and isn't causing the damage to the nation and the same electorate that I've posted about.
    If any organization (including the media) is involved in corruption etc there are indeed laws that pertain to them. DOnt pretend that the media is above the law (they are not). And as a citizen and if you have the evidence you free to turn them in. But you are just parroting a conspiracy theory and be honest you are not going to go talk to a federal prosecutor. So either you dont really believe all that or you lack the fortitude to actually do something about it. WHich begs the question where is the investigations into what you are claiming? Certainly the Republicans are actors who support the president should be doing something?
    Here I think you are wrong from the stand point that legitimate criticism on facts and on policy is valued, political propaganda, which is what the US 'news' media has descended into, isn't.
    Again put you money where your mouth is or your accusations are empty political forum rhetoric and nothing else.
    Actually, no, I've been bitching about biased media well before the Trump campaign and the Trump presidency.
    And you will probably be bitching about it till the day you day without doing anything more than bitching.

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    Re: Trump To Announce Most Corrupt & Dishonest Media Award Next Week

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    I see. Appears that you hold the 'news' media completely unaccountable for their obvious bias, their overt pushing of their political agenda, their distortions and their dishonest editorial decision making, beholden to none, answerable to none, and unassailable, regardless of whether the 'news' are becoming, and wanting to become, Orwell's "ministry of truth".
    I completely hold the news media accountable, why wouldnt I? Ironically the subject of this thread is about Trump trying to be the "ministry of truth" with his dishonest media awards. It makes me think of people like Hugo Chavez and Hitler. I can see them doing the same type of thing easily. See the president is telling us what to believe and not what to believe. And you support him so you are trying hard to get me to tote the same line. I refuse to be conned by the president or his supporters. I will remain skeptically of everything that a president (past, present or future) says or does. I do have lots of criticisms of the media, hell why do you think I dont watch it? There hundreds or even thousands of really bad news sites on the internet. Out of all them I do not trust any them anymore than trust anything on tv. Time always to a certain extent brings out the truth. SO I dont ever bank on a news release at all really. But never mind you were told that anyone who isnt on Trumps side is a mindless liberal eating up what they are being fed, and no matter what say to you you will go away believing that I am a liberal and am being spoon fed propaganda. After all thats the propaganda that you are being spoon fed.

    I mean the President himself must be held accountable for his actions. Even if there were some giant liberal political media propagandist campaign the president still accountable for his actions, period. To me I see a half truth that Trump is exploiting to distract the attention from himself. it makes me question his innocence. And when I feel that way about a president I want the question HIS Loyalty to America and her citizens to be answered by justice and the Constitution. As it stand The president is trying his damnist to avoid that. ANd the more that he does the more that he looks guilty.

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    Re: Trump To Announce Most Corrupt & Dishonest Media Award Next Week

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    I completely hold the news media accountable, why wouldnt I?
    I dunno what could have possibly given me that impression. Perhaps not accepting Trump's legitimate criticism of the biased media?

    Ironically the subject of this thread is about Trump trying to be the "ministry of truth" with his dishonest media awards.
    Meh. Meaningless, yet he's decided to do it. Or did he already? You can use that as a gauge of my interest in that.

    It makes me think of people like Hugo Chavez and Hitler. I can see them doing the same type of thing easily. See the president is telling us what to believe and not what to believe.
    I'd suggest that it would be wise to apply the same metric and criticality to the biased mainstream media. They too are trying to tell you what to believe, and there are some in the electorate who blindly believe whatever it is that comes out on their favored mainstream newspaper and their favored mainstream 'news' broadcasts. News disguised as political propaganda and leftist agenda push.

    And you support him so you are trying hard to get me to tote the same line. I refuse to be conned by the president or his supporters.
    You can do whatever it is you want.

    I will remain skeptically of everything that a president (past, present or future) says or does. I do have lots of criticisms of the media, hell why do you think I dont watch it? There hundreds or even thousands of really bad news sites on the internet. Out of all them I do not trust any them anymore than trust anything on tv. Time always to a certain extent brings out the truth. SO I dont ever bank on a news release at all really. But never mind you were told that anyone who isnt on Trumps side is a mindless liberal eating up what they are being fed, and no matter what say to you you will go away believing that I am a liberal and am being spoon fed propaganda. After all thats the propaganda that you are being spoon fed.
    Meh. I don't think so. If I were, I'd be shouting MAGA! MAGA! MAGA! 4D chess! Yet I'm not.

    Don't confuse observations of the general as being directed specifically to you. Well,, unless, as they say, the shoe fits.

    There are plenty off things where Trump shoots himself, his administration, and the agenda that elected him in the feet. Why in the world say something untoward and give the opposition an opening to stall the agenda? A case of bad Trump.

    All of those are legitimate gripes. And BTW, there's still no iron clad that he actually said it (believe the hyper partisan Durbin? He'd just as soon torpedo the DACA talks so that he can blame Trump and the GOP, or get the GOP to cave on the deal he wants). So maybe we'll see this iron clad presented yet.

    There's good Trump, when he advances the agenda that elected him.
    Then there's bad Trump, when he does something that doesn't advance the agenda.

    Doesn't much sound like buying the MAGA! MAGA! MAGA! 4D chess! that some have conned themselves into.

    I mean the President himself must be held accountable for his actions. Even if there were some giant liberal political media propagandist campaign the president still accountable for his actions, period. To me I see a half truth that Trump is exploiting to distract the attention from himself. it makes me question his innocence. And when I feel that way about a president I want the question HIS Loyalty to America and her citizens to be answered by justice and the Constitution. As it stand The president is trying his damnist to avoid that. ANd the more that he does the more that he looks guilty.
    Brilliant. Conviction without evidence. Sounds an aweful lot like the Russian collusion narrative the media has been pushing for over a year without any substantiation presented. Just sayin'
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    Re: Trump To Announce Most Corrupt & Dishonest Media Award Next Week

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Wait what does that have to do with what you quoted? I asserted that the President doesnt really have freedom of speech because he is the president and saying the wrong thing can incite riots, cause wars, destroy the economy etc, many of which can be crimes. and worse.

    And it agreed by most political analysts that it was wrong of the president to say that. At any rate at best you are trying to argue if it was ok for Obama then...its ok for the current president. And I say that two wrongs do not make a right.
    And here the coverage of the political analysts that stated such? Deathly silence.

    Trump criticizes the media, everyone's hair is on fire, and it's endlessly repeated on every news channel and every news program. Yeah, balanced coverage?

    So just give up on your attempt to troll a hypocritical response. I have liked a president in my entire probably never will. I feel that the framers made it clear that us voting public should treat politicians as the enemy and never cut them a break or give them the benefit of doubt,
    Fair. So just why is it that politicians of the political left get such favored treatment by the press? Hmmm....

    because they are probably guilty of whatever they are be accused of at some time. Of course you would ignore my point and go right into trying to protect the president. My argument (despite you being easly distracted) is that President has a duty to not say the wrong things as president that can go against the oath of the president. If you seriously think that the President can say just whatever the **** he wants you are grossly wrong. The president at best has a limited freedom of speech with many conditions.

    Yes the President of the United States of America does not enjoy freedom of speech. As I said the presidents words have power, and that power can easily be abused by speech alone. Of course the presoideny could say anything that he wants, but if what he says isnt Constitutional then there will be consequences. Remember Presidential directives are only speech. Proclamations that go against the oath of office are impeachable offenses. Lying as the president is also impeachable. The president does not enjoy the same freedoms that ordinary citizens do. In some case the president has extra freedoms that we do not have in other cases the president isnt anywhere as free as the ordinary citizen.

    If any organization (including the media) is involved in corruption etc there are indeed laws that pertain to them. DOnt pretend that the media is above the law (they are not). And as a citizen and if you have the evidence you free to turn them in. But you are just parroting a conspiracy theory and be honest you are not going to go talk to a federal prosecutor. So either you dont really believe all that or you lack the fortitude to actually do something about it. WHich begs the question where is the investigations into what you are claiming? Certainly the Republicans are actors who support the president should be doing something?Again put you money where your mouth is or your accusations are empty political forum rhetoric and nothing else.
    And you will probably be bitching about it till the day you day without doing anything more than bitching.
    It is not I that have placed the media above criticism. I believe they deserve all the criticism they get, and then some. There is no law, and there shouldn't be one, to enforce what the media publish or put on the air. But they shouldn't be exempt from criticism either. There should be no
    Fairness Doctrine, a Democrat invention by the way.
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    Re: Trump To Announce Most Corrupt & Dishonest Media Award Next Week

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Good analogy.
    And the deplorables touch themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    Trump doesn't hold a candle to Obama when it comes to lying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Or maybe "We now understand why women provoke men into hitting them".
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Trump is the most honest guy to come down the pike in a long while...

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    Re: Trump To Announce Most Corrupt & Dishonest Media Award Next Week

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    And here the coverage of the political analysts that stated such? Deathly silence.

    Trump criticizes the media, everyone's hair is on fire, and it's endlessly repeated on every news channel and every news program. Yeah, balanced coverage?



    Fair. So just why is it that politicians of the political left get such favored treatment by the press? Hmmm....



    It is not I that have placed the media above criticism. I believe they deserve all the criticism they get, and then some. There is no law, and there shouldn't be one, to enforce what the media publish or put on the air. But they shouldn't be exempt from criticism either. There should be no
    Fairness Doctrine, a Democrat invention by the way.


    What you are missing is that the media is just the media, they are not the government, do you understand that? Sure you have some big ridiculous conspiracy theory going on about the media, but that is neither here or there. Trump though is the president HE IS a THIRD OF OUR GOVERNMENT. And our president is spreading this conspiracy theory that you are obviously obsessed with. You are demonstrating how powerful Trumps propaganda can be. Its the type of propaganda that up until Trump started doing it was only done by brutal dictators. I dont really care about the media they really are not an organized anything. They say one thing today and another tomorrow and there has never been a unified message by the media. And if you try to tell me so I can prove it over and over again.

    There lies the problem with your claims, it isnt reality its fantasy. AT best a half truth that our president is using to get control of people like you that easily fooled. You are being manipulated by our President in a fashion that has only been seen in countries with authoritarian rulers. And you do not see anymore than a cultist see's how they are being controlled.

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