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What We Don't Talk about When We Talk about Russian hacking (everyone should read this)

The Lurker

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Everyone, both conservative and liberal, should read this.

What We Don?t Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking

Like any orthodoxy worth its salt, the religion of the Russian hack depends not on evidence but on ex cathedra pronouncements on the part of authoritative institutions and their overlords. Its scriptural foundation is a confused and largely fact-free ‘assessment’ produced last January by a small number of ‘hand-picked’ analysts – as James Clapper, the director of National Intelligence, described them – from the CIA, the FBI and the NSA. The claims of the last were made with only ‘moderate’ confidence. The label Intelligence Community Assessment creates a misleading impression of unanimity, given that only three of the 16 US intelligence agencies contributed to the report. And indeed the assessment itself contained this crucial admission: ‘Judgments are not intended to imply that we have proof that shows something to be a fact. Assessments are based on collected information, which is often incomplete or fragmentary, as well as logic, argumentation and precedents.’ Yet the assessment has passed into the media imagination as if it were unassailable fact, allowing journalists to assume what has yet to be proved. In doing so they serve as mouthpieces for the intelligence agencies, or at least for those ‘hand-picked’ analysts.

It is not the first time the intelligence agencies have played this role. When I hear the Intelligence Community Assessment cited as a reliable source, I always recall the part played by the New York Times in legitimating CIA reports of the threat posed by Saddam Hussein’s putative weapons of mass destruction, not to mention the long history of disinformation (a.k.a. ‘fake news’) as a tactic for advancing one administration or another’s political agenda. Once again, the established press is legitimating pronouncements made by the Church Fathers of the national security state. Clapper is among the most vigorous of these. He perjured himself before Congress in 2013, when he denied that the NSA had ‘wittingly’ spied on Americans – a lie for which he has never been held to account. In May 2017, he told NBC’s Chuck Todd that the Russians were highly likely to have colluded with Trump’s campaign because they are ‘almost genetically driven to co-opt, penetrate, gain favour, whatever, which is a typical Russian technique’. The current orthodoxy exempts the Church Fathers from standards imposed on ordinary people, and condemns Russians – above all Putin – as uniquely, ‘almost genetically’ diabolical.

Read ALL of it. It's quite the read.
 
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Re: What We Don't Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking (everyone should read this)

Again, I urge EVERYONE to read this.
 
Re: What We Don't Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking (everyone should read this)

Everyone, both conservative and liberal, should read this.

What We Don?t Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking



Read ALL of it. It's quite the read.



Doesn't appear partisan, really very informative and well written. Certainly makes you stop and take a breath and actually THINK about it.

Couple of things so far, that I hadn't realized the connections:

the NSA ‘probably knows quite well who the invaders were’. And yet ‘it has not presented any evidence, although I suspect it exists. The question is: why not? … I suspect it discovered other attackers in the systems, maybe there were six or seven groups at work.’ The NSA’s capacity to follow hacking to its source is a matter of public record. When the agency investigated pervasive and successful Chinese hacking into US military and defence industry installations, it was able to trace the hacks to the building where they originated, a People’s Liberation Army facility in Shanghai. That information was published in the New York Times but, this time, the NSA’s failure to provide evidence has gone curiously unremarked.

The name Fancy Bear was introduced by Dimitri Alperovitch, the chief technology officer of the cybersecurity firm Crowdstrike. Alperovitch is also a fellow at the Atlantic Council, an anti-Russian Washington think tank hired by the DNC to investigate the theft of their emails. In its report Crowdstrike puts forward close to zero evidence for its claim that those responsible were Russian, let alone for its assertion that they were affiliated with Russian military intelligence. And yet, from this point on, the assumption that this was a Russian cyber operation was unquestioned. When the FBI arrived on the scene, the Bureau either did not request or was refused access to the DNC servers; instead it depended entirely on the Crowdstrike analysis. Crowdstrike, meanwhile, was being forced to retract another claim, that the Russians had successfully hacked the guidance systems of the Ukrainian artillery. The Ukrainian military and the British International Institute for Strategic Studies both contradicted this claim, and Crowdstrike backed down. But its DNC analysis was allowed to stand and even become the basis for the January Intelligence Community Assessment.

For the DNC, the great value of the Russian hack story is that it focuses attention away from what was actually in their emails. The documents revealed a deeply corrupt organisation, whose pose of impartiality was a sham. Even the reliably pro-Clinton Washington Post has admitted that ‘many of the most damaging emails suggest the committee was actively trying to undermine Bernie Sanders’s presidential campaign.’ Further evidence of collusion between the Clinton machine and the DNC surfaced recently in a memoir by Donna Brazile, who became interim chair of the DNC after Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigned in the wake of the email revelations. Brazile describes discovering an agreement dated 26 August 2015, which specified (she writes)
that in exchange for raising money and investing in the DNC, Hillary would control the party’s finances, strategy, and all the money raised. Her campaign had the right of refusal of who would be the party communications director, and it would make final decisions on all the other staff. The DNC also was required to consult with the campaign about all other staffing, budgeting, data, analytics and mailings.
Before the primaries had even begun, the supposedly neutral DNC – which had been close to insolvency – had been bought by the Clinton campaign.
 
Re: What We Don't Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking (everyone should read this)

Thanks, holbritter!

I'm glad that you enjoyed it. Again, I think that everyone here, conservative and liberal, should read this.
 
Re: What We Don't Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking (everyone should read this)

Bump.
 
Re: What We Don't Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking (everyone should read this)

Everyone, both conservative and liberal, should read this.

What We Don?t Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking



Read ALL of it. It's quite the read.

The Lurker:

The Jackson Lear article was a good, informative and balanced presentation of the anti-informative, biased and authority-driven political narrative which is dominating America and consuming all the news oxygen of the electronic and print mainstream media. While based based in some limited facts and worthy of real investigative journalism and legal enquiry, the "Russia Story" has taken on a life of its own in America. Every time I watch an American mainstream news or news commentary show I am inundated with Russian Hacking opinion and authority but seldom get any facts or real evidence. Speculation, innuendo and fear-mongering dominate the news cycle while facts and evidence is sorely lacking. That Russia may have tried to influence the election and may have probed the electoral mechanisms of American democracy should come as no surprise to anyone not living under a rock. But the hysteria and the blind zealotry of those distorting this so far out of proportion betrays an irrational fear and woeful ignorance of a populace which buys into the story without any evidence or facts being presented.

This Russian chaff eclipses the far more serious concerns of a Democratic Party which fixed its own nomination process to deny a popular and winnable candidate nomination while assuring the nomination of a candidate who was arguably unelectable. Meanwhile the Republican Party let its nomination process devolve into a tragic-comedy of corporatism, special interests, xenophobia and racism. This political train wreck produced another eminently unelectable nominee who was also completely unfit to hold the highest office in the land. The result was a nationwide political enema which flooded the country with political and ideological scat, unleashed blind populism and class-based rage and which poisoned US politics for the foreseeable future, making authoritarian politics that much more attractive to a jaded and exhausted body politic. The Russia story is providing the distraction needed to allow the US political elites to get off Scot-free for their incompetance and malfeasance in the last election cycle. That's the story the MSM should be covering in addition to determining the role of Russia in the last election, but the media, (print and television) are mute about American interference in their own election.

Thanks for posting this article and have yourself a Merry Christmas either this week upcoming or in January.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Re: What We Don't Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking (everyone should read this)

The Lurker:

The Jackson Lear article was a good, informative and balanced presentation of the anti-informative, biased and authority-driven political narrative which is dominating America and consuming all the news oxygen of the electronic and print mainstream media. While based based in some limited facts and worthy of real investigative journalism and legal enquiry, the "Russia Story" has taken on a life of its own in America. Every time I watch an American mainstream news or news commentary show I am inundated with Russian Hacking opinion and authority but seldom get any facts or real evidence. Speculation, innuendo and fear-mongering dominate the news cycle while facts and evidence is sorely lacking. That Russia may have tried to influence the election and may have probed the electoral mechanisms of American democracy should come as no surprise to anyone not living under a rock. But the hysteria and the blind zealotry of those distorting this so far out of proportion betrays an irrational fear and woeful ignorance of a populace which buys into the story without any evidence or facts being presented.

This Russian chaff eclipses the far more serious concerns of a Democratic Party which fixed its own nomination process to deny a popular and winnable candidate nomination while assuring the nomination of a candidate who was arguably unelectable. Meanwhile the Republican Party let its nomination process devolve into a tragic-comedy of corporatism, special interests, xenophobia and racism. This political train wreck produced another eminently unelectable nominee who was also completely unfit to hold the highest office in the land. The result was a nationwide political enema which flooded the country with political and ideological scat, unleashed blind populism and class-based rage and which poisoned US politics for the foreseeable future, making authoritarian politics that much more attractive to a jaded and exhausted body politic. The Russia story is providing the distraction needed to allow the US political elites to get off Scot-free for their incompetance and malfeasance in the last election cycle. That's the story the MSM should be covering in addition to determining the role of Russia in the last election, but the media, (print and television) are mute about American interference in their own election.

Thanks for posting this article and have yourself a Merry Christmas either this week upcoming or in January.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Great post, Evilroddy. Although I would argue that Russia poses no threat to the United States and that both the United States and Russia should become allies.
 
Everyone, both conservative and liberal, should read this.

What We Don?t Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking



Read ALL of it. It's quite the read.

Very good read. Written with balance while admitting a certain bias from the writer, which is perfectly acceptable to me because they tell me where they are coming from.

This stood out:

For the DNC, the great value of the Russian hack story is that it focuses attention away from what was actually in their emails. The documents revealed a deeply corrupt organisation, whose pose of impartiality was a sham. Even the reliably pro-Clinton Washington Post has admitted that ‘many of the most damaging emails suggest the committee was actively trying to undermine Bernie Sanders’s presidential campaign.’

That describes EXACTLY what the Russian nonsense is about. That's ONLY what it is about. Deflection from facing he truth.
 
Very good read. Written with balance while admitting a certain bias from the writer, which is perfectly acceptable to me because they tell me where they are coming from.

This stood out:



That describes EXACTLY what the Russian nonsense is about. That's ONLY what it is about. Deflection from facing he truth.
I believe that Russia and the United States should not be enemies. They should be allies. I would suggest The Putin Interviews by Oliver Stone.
 
I believe that Russia and the United States should not be enemies. They should be allies. I would suggest The Putin Interviews by Oliver Stone.

I believe these kinds of meetings with Russia have been happening regularly since the 80s by everybody in Congress and certainly incoming administrations.

This is a big ruse to distract from the horrible corruption those emails exposed.
 
I believe these kinds of meetings with Russia have been happening regularly since the 80s by everybody in Congress and certainly incoming administrations.

This is a big ruse to distract from the horrible corruption those emails exposed.
Indeed. It says quite a lot about our system. Both liberals and conservatives should be appalled at the content of the e-mails.

Anyway, we need a President that can mend relations with countries such as Russia. No more "enemies." We need allies more than we need enemies. We need to mend relations with countries such as Russia, Syria, North Korea, and China, which are constantly vilified in the mainstream media.
 
Indeed. It says quite a lot about our system. Both liberals and conservatives should be appalled at the content of the e-mails.

Anyway, we need a President that can mend relations with countries such as Russia. No more "enemies." We need allies more than we need enemies. We need to mend relations with countries such as Russia, Syria, North Korea, and China, which are constantly vilified in the mainstream media.

It's really simple. The Military Industrial Corporate Complex is the biggest business in the Nation. It dwarfs the Auto Industry. The MIC has industries in every state and politicians are always trying to keep Military Offense contracts flowing in their jurisdictions. First, you need to create a demand for the products. That'd be marketing. Create chaos, instability, insurrection, revolution and wars wherever possible. Manufacture bogeymen as "devils in the flesh," or in the MSM a/k/a Putin/Russia, China/Xi, etc. That creates more demand for weapons. Without wars, you don't have replacement orders, so concentrate on those wars. Just Business, don't ya' know? "The business of America is business." "War is good business, and business is good." Those are not homilies, but credos. That's what America is about, but the taxpayers don't know it, and don't want to believe it, because it is un-American. Could it's success be caused by a manipulable MSM that supports the war-making agenda? Of course, only five owners. That's where mind bending begins and ends. Written and managed by the CIA, etc. Now, we have a retrosaur president that thinks if the laws are adjusted to the successful (for Corporations) early 1900s without regulation and no acknowledgement of long term liability, then we will be great again. The rich will get richer and if the "business of America is business," then Trump is correct and willing to sacrifice the Planet to prove it. Keeeerissst, we need help.
 
It's really simple. The Military Industrial Corporate Complex is the biggest business in the Nation. It dwarfs the Auto Industry. The MIC has industries in every state and politicians are always trying to keep Military Offense contracts flowing in their jurisdictions. First, you need to create a demand for the products. That'd be marketing. Create chaos, instability, insurrection, revolution and wars wherever possible. Manufacture bogeymen as "devils in the flesh," or in the MSM a/k/a Putin/Russia, China/Xi, etc. That creates more demand for weapons. Without wars, you don't have replacement orders, so concentrate on those wars. Just Business, don't ya' know? "The business of America is business." "War is good business, and business is good." Those are not homilies, but credos. That's what America is about, but the taxpayers don't know it, and don't want to believe it, because it is un-American. Could it's success be caused by a manipulable MSM that supports the war-making agenda? Of course, only five owners. That's where mind bending begins and ends. Written and managed by the CIA, etc. Now, we have a retrosaur president that thinks if the laws are adjusted to the successful (for Corporations) early 1900s without regulation and no acknowledgement of long term liability, then we will be great again. The rich will get richer and if the "business of America is business," then Trump is correct and willing to sacrifice the Planet to prove it. Keeeerissst, we need help.

It's a machine, that's for damn sure.

Ever heard about Operation Gladio? I've heard about it before, but I never knew what it was until now. The fact that the elites in this country and in NATO are capable of that means that we live under a power that doesn't care for morality.
 
It's a machine, that's for damn sure.

Ever heard about Operation Gladio? I've heard about it before, but I never knew what it was until now. The fact that the elites in this country and in NATO are capable of that means that we live under a power that doesn't care for morality.

Making up for lost time on your post count, I see.

If I read correctly, Operation Gladio was a plan for organized resistance if the Soviets ever took control of territory in Italy or elsewhere. That seems perfectly valid and moral to me, but I only lightly covered the subject. Am I missing anything critical?
 
Making up for lost time on your post count, I see.

If I read correctly, Operation Gladio was a plan for organized resistance if the Soviets ever took control of territory in Italy or elsewhere. That seems perfectly valid and moral to me, but I only lightly covered the subject. Am I missing anything critical?
Nice to meet you, BTW.
 
Nice to meet you, BTW.

Nice to meet you too, Lurker.

The inevitable trend of legislation makes sense, and I had suspected that such was the case. I was aware of the suggestion of false flag operations against our own forces, although I was under the impression that it had a different name. Operation Gladio seems like the most benign aspect of that article, although I didn't watch the 50-minute video.

Overall, I fully agree that our government engages in shady activities that few outside of it could tolerate, but I was curious about Operation Gladio's significance. It appears that besides drastically outliving it's purpose, it isn't that bad.

Have you seen the video? If so, what was were/are the Gladio operations like?
 
Nice to meet you too, Lurker.

The inevitable trend of legislation makes sense, and I had suspected that such was the case. I was aware of the suggestion of false flag operations against our own forces, although I was under the impression that it had a different name. Operation Gladio seems like the most benign aspect of that article, although I didn't watch the 50-minute video.

Overall, I fully agree that our government engages in shady activities that few outside of it could tolerate, but I was curious about Operation Gladio's significance. It appears that besides drastically outliving it's purpose, it isn't that bad.

Have you seen the video? If so, what was were/are the Gladio operations like?

I'm going by the descriptions that the article gives us. It essentially killed or hurt people in the name of anti-Soviet propaganda.

The point I was trying to make is that the elites have been shown to stoop to some pretty low levels in terms of morality.

Glad that we got on the right foot by the way.
 
I'm going by the descriptions that the article gives us. It essentially killed or hurt people in the name of anti-Soviet propaganda.

The point I was trying to make is that the elites have been shown to stoop to some pretty low levels in terms of morality.

Glad that we got on the right foot by the way.

You don't have to convince me that the government is dangerous to it's citizens, I know that's true. It was interesting to learn about Operation Gladio, I'll have to do some more research on it tomorrow.

It's been good talking with you, Lurker. I'll see you later - it's been a long day for me, and I'm calling it quits for now.
 
You don't have to convince me that the government is dangerous to it's citizens, I know that's true. It was interesting to learn about Operation Gladio, I'll have to do some more research on it tomorrow.

It's been good talking with you, Lurker. I'll see you later - it's been a long day for me, and I'm calling it quits for now.
Yeah, you too. I'm glad that you took the time to read my article.

I hope to see you tomorrow.
 
Re: What We Don't Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking (everyone should read this)

Great post, Evilroddy. Although I would argue that Russia poses no threat to the United States and that both the United States and Russia should become allies.

The Lurker:

From the perspective of the US state and its military branches, Russia is very much a threat to the USA and the wider post-WWII US Grand Area doctrine. The Russian thermonuclear arsenal and ballistic missile capacity (both land-based and sub-based) is a very real threat to America. The Russian Navy and Submarine forces are a growing threat since Russia under Vladimir Putin began rebuilding its offensive and defensive capacity after the collapse of the USSR and the follow-on disaster of the Yeltsin years. The Russian Land forces have proved a threat to western interests in the Russian near-abroad and as the US is the dominant member of NATO and a key driver in its westward expansion, it still perceives Russia as a very credible military threat. Russia's involvement and Putin's leadership in the Syrian Civil War is seen as very threatening to US hegemony over the Middle Eastern region as is Russia's closer ties and flourishing business expansion with Iran, Afghanistan and Iraq.

In the non-military world, Russia's participation and leadership in the creation and promotion of economic and financial mechanisms designed to weaken US domination over international commerce and finance is a threat to US commercial and financial hegemony. So, from the perspective of the US invisible empire and a mono-polar military global hegemon, Russia is most definitly a threat to US interests. The emergence of a grand, Eurasian, land-based, continental-wide, super-economy which the US cannot easily control, influence or interdict by naval or air power is perhaps the greatest emerging threat that Russia, in concert with China, India and the central Asian "Stan-states" along the Silk Road, poses to the US from an American POV. If you see world affairs as a zero-sum game (as the US leadership does), then all nations are a threat but some are more threatening than others. Russia falls into that latter category as far as the US leadership is concerned. It is selfish and xenophobic but it is also true.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Re: What We Don't Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking (everyone should read this)

Russia falls into that latter category as far as the US leadership is concerned. It is selfish and xenophobic but it is also true.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

You have the temerity to call Russia xenophobic and selfish when you are comparing them to the USA??! Absolutely stunning. The USA are the people that believe god gave them the right to steal everyone's wealth and brag about what kind, benevolent, loving, generous people they are.

People who have spent 93% of their years as a "nation" at war aren't anything but evil war criminals and terrorists.
 
Re: What We Don't Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking (everyone should read this)

You have the temerity to call Russia xenophobic and selfish when you are comparing them to the USA??! Absolutely stunning. The USA are the people that believe god gave them the right to steal everyone's wealth and brag about what kind, benevolent, loving, generous people they are.

People who have spent 93% of their years as a "nation" at war aren't anything but evil war criminals and terrorists.

No Camlok:

I am calling the US leadership xenophobic and selfish and not Putin's Russia. Putin's Russia has many very serious vices which I have no intention of excusing but so does America. You really ought to calm down dude or you'll pop a gasket!

Nor am I endorsing the US Grand Area Doctrine and the forever-war which it and de facto empire has burdened the US people and economy with. Russia is a real threat to America but America is a much, much larger and more dangerous threat to Russia. Please, also leave the American people out of this guilt-dumping as they are as much the victims of US grand strategy and doctrine as the people paupered by US military adventurism and predatory corporatism abroad. You need to adopt a more nuanced approach to your virulent criticism of US state policy or be relegated by most readers here to the status of a madman howling at the moon. Make your points calmly and back them up with evidence and authority (of which there is plenty available) and you will likely have more success in leading people closer to your point of view.

With respect and good cheer.
Evilroddy.
 
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Re: What We Don't Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking (everyone should read this)

The article would have more credibility if it wasn't full of adhominem attacks on Republican leaders. That our government is a threat or that the MIC is a powerful force, or that out intell agencies don't tell us the facts is nothing new. It is how the world operates, and these things could have been true in even back to the Greeks and Romans. And yet all of this is simply a "version" of events. And the Russians and others have their versions.
 
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