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Can Trump just declare anything he wants to be fake news and will his supporters believe it?

Yes_Minister said:
Can Trump just declare anything he wants to be fake news and will his supporters believe it? If so, do Trump supporters create an environment of zero accountability for him?
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Sure he can. It's up to the media to report things as accurately as possible to where their articles are indisputable. Still, I think at this point Walter Cronkite could come from the dead and report a story on Pres. Trump that is 120% prove positive that he's wrong and many of his supporters will still call Cronkite a liar and he was considered one of if not the most honest man in journalism in his day.
 
Yes_Minister said:
Alright, I hope you are right. But I do think there some parallels between Bush and Trump.
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Bush and Trump are completely different from each other.
 
Did you know how the NFL’s popularity evolved over the last year? It was doing fine and then tanked as soon as the President tweeted against it.

Yes, his supporters believe anything, because they belong to a personality cult.


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FieldTheorist said:
Amongst the core supporters (I'd guess roughly 15% of voters), yeah, there's zero credulity. They want to be told what is and isn't true, and they want to submit themselves to a "great leader" figure. That's the core of an authoritarian mindset. They feel threatened, and their fear and blind rage have basically turned them into wrecking balls that won't stop wrecking until they're sure they've destroyed "the enemy." They don't seem to agree what the enemy is (largely the "globalists" and the decedent rich liberals, brown immigrants, blacks, women, gays, trans, and "communist liberals" that support them), but it doesn't seem to matter since Trump really only sold himself as a wrecking ball. And they'll keep on swinging him around until they've destroyed all of America, if we let them.
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15% is probably too low. W’s popularity rating was in the mid-20s at the end of his tenure. I would say he has at least a quarter or more of the American voters in his pocket for better or for worse.


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Captain Adverse said:
(Sigh) No. :no:

I am a Trump "supporter," since I voted for him and do support most of his stated campaign policy goals. But not all.

However, I don't take all the allegations of anti-Trump "reports" (read opinion and propaganda rather than simple news reporting) at face value.

I do my own fact-checking.

I also don't agree with his penchant to tweet before he thinks...i.e. I also wish he would just save his comments for public speeches and filtered through his Public Affairs section.

Still, I also recognize tweeting is his way of speaking to and judging reactions from his base, and for his "base" to feel connected to the person they elected.

I also realize much of the things some people consider lies are typical "puffing" exaggeration to sell himself and his actions to the public.

Still, I have no problem recognizing when he does or says things I don't agree with.



Did you miss both the "STILL TYPING" along with the request in my tagline (which has been there since I joined) to wait until I was finished? :doh
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Yeah he does tweet before he thinks (which is the upside, perhaps he tweets what he really thinks, or maybe never thinks at all). And he desperately needs a filter. I'm wondering what kind of "base" responds positively to these traits and his crude and hateful statements? Why would we want people swayed in such a manner have the power to elect anyone? Why would thinking people want to affiliate themselves with such a "base" ? This truly confuses me.
 
Mycroft said:
Bush and Trump are completely different from each other.
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In many ways yes, but I think there are similarities between the two. Bush sold himself as an outsider who would clean up Washington, just like Trump, I also feel there was a similar attempt to present Bush as someone who is usual right and any criticism of him can be rejected as liberal bias. Of course there are differences, but I see some repeats of stuff from the Bush era. If you look at the way Hannity defended Bush it is similar to the way he defends Trump. Maybe I am cynical, but I see a cycle here.
 
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Yes_Minister said:
In many ways yes, but I think there are similarities between the two. Bush sold himself as an outsider who would clean up Washington, just like Trump, I also feel there was a similar attempt to present Bush as someone who is usual right and any criticism of him can be rejected as liberal bias. Of course there are differences, but I see some repeats of stuff from the Bush era. If you look at the way Hannity defended Bush it is similar to the way he defends Trump. Maybe I am cynical, but I see a cycle here.
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Fox News is an arm of the Republican party, established to present the Republican argument and advance Republican candidates. Disputing this is spitting in the wind. I don't think you are the least cynical, the cycle is very real.
 
Yes_Minister said:
In many ways yes, but I think there are similarities between the two. Bush sold himself as an outsider who would clean up Washington, just like Trump, I also feel there was a similar attempt to present Bush as someone who is usual right and any criticism of him can be rejected as liberal bias. Of course there are differences, but I see some repeats of stuff from the Bush era. If you look at the way Hannity defended Bush it is similar to the way he defends Trump. Maybe I am cynical, but I see a cycle here.
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Bush...an outsider...the guy who's father was President...the guy who was a governor. I don't see how anyone could think Bush was an outsider. I will concede that Bush tasted the liberal media bias, though compared to Trump, the media was downright nice to Bush.

I don't know much about Hannity, except that he's a right wing talking potato head. Yeah...I'd expect him to support a Republican President in his own style.
 
Trump doesn't have to make anything up. The MSM provides him with plenty of concrete examples all on their own. It's like they are working for him. However, he has been brilliant in how he has attached the "fake news" label to them; and it's stuck. MSM credibility is at an all time low. It is also a time the MSM are being challenged by a plethora of alternative news and opinion sources all over the internet. And where the MSM's mistakes are magnified dozens of times over. This all plays to Trump's advantage; and he has simply been a master at getting the most out of it.
 
JMR said:
Yeah he does tweet before he thinks (which is the upside, perhaps he tweets what he really thinks, or maybe never thinks at all). And he desperately needs a filter. I'm wondering what kind of "base" responds positively to these traits and his crude and hateful statements? Why would we want people swayed in such a manner have the power to elect anyone? Why would thinking people want to affiliate themselves with such a "base" ? This truly confuses me.
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What kind of people???

People who prefer straight talk instead of homogenized, focus group tested babble that nobody in their right mind takes seriously.
 
Mycroft said:
I'll concede that Bush tasted the liberal media bias, though compared to Trump, the media was downright nice to Bush.
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Bush was largely incompetent, but seemed to be a fairly nice guy, and on matters other than war, was pretty reasonable. The necons ran rough-shod over him and that was pretty scary stuff (Rummy and Wolfowitz and Cheney), they probably generated 75% or more of his negative press, or resulting from their war-sagas. Bush's silliness was muted by the establishment and legacy conservatives that helped ensure we had a fairly normal conservative/republican white house.

Trump is so wrong in so many ways, I won't clutter another post filled with that. Suffice to say, they are getting press pressure in proportion to how bad/dangerous/dishonest they are.
 
Mycroft said:
Bush...an outsider...the guy who's father was President...the guy who was a governor. I don't see how anyone could think Bush was an outsider. I will concede that Bush tasted the liberal media bias, though compared to Trump, the media was downright nice to Bush.

I don't know much about Hannity, except that he's a right wing talking potato head. Yeah...I'd expect him to support a Republican President in his own style.
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That's how Bush sold himself, he said he was the outsider, you may think that is ridiculous, but that's what he did.

And if Bush was able to sweep away criticism of the Iraq war by claiming "liberal bias" I wonder if Trump can do the same with anything he wants.

I feel like there is a cycle, Fox News cheer leads the Republican President as the strong outsider who can fix everything if we put blind faith into him, the base buys in, he fails short of his goals and right after he leaves office, Fox News and the base declares that he was not a real Republican. That is what happened with Bush, I think history can repeat itself, not only with Trump, but the next Republican President as well.
 
Mycroft said:
What kind of people???

People who prefer straight talk instead of homogenized, focus group tested babble that nobody in their right mind takes seriously.
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My post was quite clear. People who respond favorably to crude and hateful statements. Trump is not a straight talker, he is crude provocateur. I am not in favor of people who admire such low road behavior swinging elections.
 
Yes_Minister said:
That's how Bush sold himself, he said he was the outsider, you may think that is ridiculous, but that's what he did.

And if Bush was able to sweep away criticism of the Iraq war by claiming "liberal bias" I wonder if Trump can do the same with anything he wants.

I feel like there is a cycle, Fox News cheer leads the Republican President as the strong outsider who can fix everything if we put blind faith into him, the base buys in, he fails short of his goals and right after he leaves office, Fox News and the base declares that he was not a real Republican. That is what happened with Bush, I think history can repeat itself, not only with Trump, but the next Republican President as well.
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Bush did nothing to sweep away the liberal criticism. They hammered him...and then hammered McCain...over the war. They didn't count on Trump hammering them back and it's pissing them off.

I consider Fox part of the Mainstream Media and take everything they say with a boatload of skepticism. But yeah...the Mainstream Media won't stop with their tactics against whomever they are against...left or right. My biggest regret is that there are so many useful idiots out there who blindly accept as fact whatever their chosen media source tells them...even if it's outright fake news.
 
Cardinal said:
If Trump had made 7 false or misleading statements in a year he would be considered the most honest President that ever lived.
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He probably already holds that title.

Over-exaggeration (which is what the man is prone to do) isn't a lie. Not unless you've gone bat**** crazy and are frantic, spending sleepless hours picking the finest of nits. (which is what the Unthinking Left, the Rarely Right, and the I Will Never Believe a God Damn Word That Comes Out of Their Mouths Media are prone to do)

"If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it."

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky"

"There are WMD's in Iraq"

Now those are lies.
 
Mycroft said:
Bush did nothing to sweep away the liberal criticism. They hammered him...and then hammered McCain...over the war. They didn't count on Trump hammering them back and it's pissing them off.

I consider Fox part of the Mainstream Media and take everything they say with a boatload of skepticism. But yeah...the Mainstream Media won't stop with their tactics against whomever they are against...left or right. My biggest regret is that there are so many useful idiots out there who blindly accept as fact whatever their chosen media source tells them...even if it's outright fake news.
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Actually Bush got a huge pass by almost everyone (Fox, CNN, New York Times) during the build up to the Iraq war, almost everyone bought in there. This why I have skepticism about this whole liberal media idea, if the media was so liberal, why didn't more news outlets oppose the war from the get go?

Now later, when things went South in Iraq, Bush tried to use the liberal media as an excuse as to why things were not working out, that things were fine, but the media wasn't presenting a rosy enough picture of stuff on the ground.

So let me ask you this, can any conservative politician use the liberal media as an a get of jail free card and not take responsibility for their actions?
 
Yes_Minister said:
Actually Bush got a huge pass by almost everyone (Fox, CNN, New York Times) during the build up to the Iraq war, almost everyone bought in there. This why I have skepticism about this whole liberal media idea, if the media was so liberal, why didn't more news outlets oppose the war from the get go?

Now later, when things went South in Iraq, Bush tried to use the liberal media as an excuse as to why things were not working out, that things were fine, but the media wasn't presenting a rosy enough picture of stuff on the ground.

So let me ask you this, can any conservative politician use the liberal media as an a get of jail free card and not take responsibility for their actions?
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I can't answer your question because Trump is quite willing to take responsibility for his actions. But he is NOT willing to take responsibility for the crap...including fake news...that the Mainstream Media tries to put on him.

On the other hand, numerous liberal politicians have certainly used the liberal media as a get out of jail free card...most notably, Hillary (email) and Obama (various executive branch scandals).
 
Mycroft said:
I can't answer your question because Trump is quite willing to take responsibility for his actions. But he is NOT willing to take responsibility for the crap...including fake news...that the Mainstream Media tries to put on him.

On the other hand, numerous liberal politicians have certainly used the liberal media as a get out of jail free card...most notably, Hillary (email) and Obama (various executive branch scandals).
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I'm unaware of any instance that Trump took responsibility for his actions. Please point a few of these out if they in fact happened.
 
Mycroft said:
I can't answer your question because Trump is quite willing to take responsibility for his actions. But he is NOT willing to take responsibility for the crap...including fake news...that the Mainstream Media tries to put on him.

On the other hand, numerous liberal politicians have certainly used the liberal media as a get out of jail free card...most notably, Hillary (email) and Obama (various executive branch scandals).
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What mistakes has Trump taken responsibility for at this point? I think he has a habit of blaming others if something goes wrong, IMO. Trump has not been in power as long as Bush, so he has not done anything as impactful in a negative way like Bush did with the Iraq War, but its naive to think Trump could never do something similar.

Regardless I think Trump is a small part of a larger picture, where it seems like "liberal media" is a handy excuse for any conservative politician to get away with anything they want. I think Trump goes by the same play book as Bush, in that regard. You get a bit older and you see the patterns that political systems create, I think the same forces that prop up Trump, propped up Bush.
 
JMR said:
I'm unaware of any instance that Trump took responsibility for his actions. Please point a few of these out if they in fact happened.
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He takes responsibility for everything he does...whether it's signing an executive order, talking to Congressmen or foreign leaders, or even trolling and tweaking the Mainstream Media.

Your turn...
 
Mycroft said:
What mistakes has he made?
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Wanna start with the highly-unusual turnover rate of his appointees? Normally folks start leaving after one year mark and the higher positions change out after 3-4 years in a two term administration.

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Mycroft said:
What mistakes has he made?
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I think you asked me that question before and my response was "are you going to say any mistake I bring up is fake news?'' I stand by that response.

Do you think Trump is perfect? I know you are say no and you are going to jump down my throat about any example you don't like being "fake news", so let me ask you a real question, do you think he has made any mistakes? Also please give me a real answer, not some hyper partisan "he trusted the establishment Republicans too much" or "he didn't get rid of Obama's civil servants fast enough", can you think of a real human mistake he has made and did he take responsibility for it?
 
Yes_Minister said:
Can Trump just declare anything he wants to be fake news and will his supporters believe it? If so, do Trump supporters create an environment of zero accountability for him?
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.... With very wide boundaries. Perhaps if he went after Alex Jones, Breitbart, or Hannity, he might lose some followers.
 
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