• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why are Race jokes taboo?

code1211 said:
The equivalence is not false.

Your outrage and their comedy is.

Carson was on the air for decades in various roles and shows.

He was an equal opportunity lampooner of everything. It was very difficult to peg him as either a Democrat or a Republican using only his material on the air.

That is not true of the current crop of cheap humor propagandists on the late night circuit today.
Click to expand...

I'll give ya the partisan lampooning argument. But, I disagree that Trump jokes are no different than racist ones.
 
AlbqOwl said:
You are correct. Race, ethnic, gender, sexual orientation jokes can be mean spirited but they usually are just referring to light hearted stereotypical images associated with groups of people and no malice is intended whether they be about black people, white people, Italians, Mexicans, Irish, Scottish, Jewish, redheads, Republicans, Democrats, men, women, Catholics, Jews, Muslims etc. etc. etc. But in our politically correct world, it is only the jokes about black people or Muslim or Jewish people or gay people that are verboten.

And because light hearted humor is only forbidden when it includes black people or Jewish people or Muslim people or Gay people, those groups are singled out or held up as 'different' or 'more fragile in sensitivity' or some such. And it does make it more difficult for the national pysche to then see these groups as mainstream. And if anything, it pushes any prejudices deeper and reinforces the stereotypes. All others can enjoy the light hearted banter about 'hot tempered red headed Irishmen' or 'stingy Scots' or other good natured digs that are okay because everybody knows its all in good fun. Italians 'talk with their hands', the Germans are excessively industrious, etc. If the joke isn't mean spirited, it should be okay. "Dumb Polack" is mean spirited and is offensive to me, but it isn't considered off limits in the PC world, at least to the extent a joke about a black person or gay person would be. But it can be used for good effect when the 'dumb Polack' turns out to be not so dumb.

In the current dynamic, we all recently heard about a fireman who was censured for bringing a watermelon to the firehouse on which a number of black firemen were assigned or circumstances in which fried chicken would not be appropriate for the same reason. How stupid is that when most of us who are not black enjoy watermelon and fried chicken? When 'sensitivity' is carried to that level it only heightens resentments and introduces toxic elements that are entirely unnecessary and help keep racism alive and well.
Click to expand...

I was surprised to find some years ago that I had become a member of a "Protected Class" at work because I became, in a legal sense, old.

I'm not sensitive about being old in any way. I AM old. A State of Being is just that.

That said, I interact with others in the course of a normal business day, both co-workers and customers, and engage in many humor filled exchanges. Jokes about me are abundant. Most are good natured ribbing. I give as good as I get.

It's not hard to differentiate between those jokes that are based on me personally or the conversation topic of the moment and those jokes that are targeting me as a member of a class.

I abandoned the notion that I was somehow superior to anyone years ago. Others seem to embrace and proclaim that notion in regard to themselves. They consider it to be their State of Being.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Actually I said nothing of the kind. But go on and shove more words in my mouth if it suits your pre-concieved notion.

This is why you're beyond reach.

Criticism does not have to be "equal." If someone is behaving worse than everyone else, then they deserve a greater amount of criticism than others.

Beyond that, Obama had a number of scandals in his administration which were criticized. Whether Kimmel did so, I don't know. I don't spend my time watching that kind of thing to be honest.

Does Trump get it worse? I sure hope so. No president in my lifetime of either party has been so utterly without a conscience. He should be getting it worse.

This is not a matter of whatever party Trump is pretending to belong to. It's a matter of his behavior."
Click to expand...

Your words:

"Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
There is neither any Democrat, nor any other "Republican" (it is my position that Trump isn't a Republican anyway, and probably cares nothing for politics, so whether he counts towards either party's rank is merely a matter of technicality to me) who behaves as immorally and irresponsibly with such a dangerous amount of power, in my opinion. He deserves the intensity of criticism he gets, and then some.

Again, what exactly has he done that that you find to demonstrate his lack of a conscience?

You hate him. I get it. Now, please, cite the actual things that he has done that you find so reprehensible.

Please avoid using the unfounded rumors and hate speech peddled by his enemies.

Links would be greatly appreciated.
 
Mr Person said:
Well, I'll have to take your response now, but I'd like to hear the response from the people who "liked" this idiotic stupidity.

Why, you or they, is supporting Trump like any of the following:


1. Race (skin color/features determined by genetics, but still no genetic "races". There are species and sub-species, but human "races" do not conform).

2. Color

3. Religion

4. National Origin

5. Age

6. Sex

7. Sexual Orientation



The question is important and specific, because "hate speech", "hate crimes", etc, are directed at constitutionally protected classes. Apart from religion, these are things one does not choose. I suspect that you don't want to compare supporting a politician (Trump) with being religious.

And how's it like criticizing Trump? Joking about Trump? He chooses to behave the way he does.




____________________________
Edit: Of course, it's a slimey maneuver to pretend that any criticism of anyone who still supports Trump is "hate-based." Were all the criticisms of Obama due to hate? Hate of the first black President? I doubt it, since I've criticized him and I certainly didn't "hate" him.

Did you criticize Obama? Did you "hate-speech" against him?
Click to expand...

You seem to have missed entirely the point of my post.

That's okay.
 
SheWolf said:
I have a race based joke for you.

Yo momma is so nasty, she burns more rubbers a day than a NASCAR driver. Ewww! :cool:
Click to expand...

My mother has passed away.

That's aside, though. I get that you hate.

So, mission accomplished!

Good for you!
 
MrWonka said:
Is that a joke? Better questions would be in what way has Trump not demonstrated himself and his supporters to be bigots? His entire campaign was based on racism, sexism, homophobia, Islamophobia, and xenophobia.
Click to expand...

Link?
 
calamity said:
I'll give ya the partisan lampooning argument. But, I disagree that Trump jokes are no different than racist ones.
Click to expand...

A race joke is based on qualities that are perceived to be intrinsic to a particular group.

They are funny to those that hate the targeted victim in the joke and appreciating the humor includes both the teller the listener in the "in-crowd".

What makes the jokes funny to the "in-crowd" is that the targeted victim is shown to be outside the in-crowd or victimized by the intrinsic qualities highlighted.

These are exactly the structure of the Trump jokes and describe exactly the qualities and goals of the tellers and the listeners.

Can you define the difference in the structure and motivation you seem to understand between a Trump Joke and a Race Joke?
 
code1211 said:
Link?
Click to expand...

I cannot say that Trump seems a bigot. That doesn't make him a nice person or anything like that. It only is to say that you are using a poorly selected derogatory.
 
joG said:
I cannot say that Trump seems a bigot. That doesn't make him a nice person or anything like that. It only is to say that you are using a poorly selected derogatory.
Click to expand...

Hate will do that.

A common tool of those that hate is to define the subject of their hate into groups that they also hate.

It seems to make it easier for them in some way. I'm not sure why.

I don't think people like to think that they hate with no reason or jujst because they've been told to do so. If they can construct in their own mind that Trump a White Supremacist, then they have included Trump into the justifiably hate worthy group of White Supremacists.

With that leap made, their hate is now justified and ANY other hate filled comment they make is justified.

Justifying the hate is the first step. The weak minded, then, buy into the hate using the same justification, join the lynch mob and the lynch mob moves forward.
 
code1211 said:
Your words:

"Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
There is neither any Democrat, nor any other "Republican" (it is my position that Trump isn't a Republican anyway, and probably cares nothing for politics, so whether he counts towards either party's rank is merely a matter of technicality to me) who behaves as immorally and irresponsibly with such a dangerous amount of power, in my opinion. He deserves the intensity of criticism he gets, and then some.

Again, what exactly has he done that that you find to demonstrate his lack of a conscience?

You hate him. I get it. Now, please, cite the actual things that he has done that you find so reprehensible.

Please avoid using the unfounded rumors and hate speech peddled by his enemies.

Links would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Firstly, you didn't ask.

Secondly, if I have to explain to you what is wrong with baiting nuclear war, you are, again, beyond the help of me or anyone else on the planet, quite frankly.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Firstly, you didn't ask.

Secondly, if I have to explain to you what is wrong with baiting nuclear war, you are, again, beyond the help of me or anyone else on the planet, quite frankly.
Click to expand...

Well, you're free to offer whatever explanation you may feel you want to offer on whatever topic you may feel is germame to your thoughts.

The topics you cite have nothing to do whatever with my topic.

That does not deter your freedom to hold forth.
 
Mr Person said:
Well, I'll have to take your response now, but I'd like to hear the response from the people who "liked" this idiotic stupidity.

Why, you or they, is supporting Trump like any of the following:


1. Race (skin color/features determined by genetics, but still no genetic "races". There are species and sub-species, but human "races" do not conform).

2. Color

3. Religion

4. National Origin

5. Age

6. Sex

7. Sexual Orientation



The question is important and specific, because "hate speech", "hate crimes", etc, are directed at constitutionally protected classes. Apart from religion, these are things one does not choose. I suspect that you don't want to compare supporting a politician (Trump) with being religious.

And how's it like criticizing Trump? Joking about Trump? He chooses to behave the way he does.




____________________________
Edit: Of course, it's a slimey maneuver to pretend that any criticism of anyone who still supports Trump is "hate-based." Were all the criticisms of Obama due to hate? Hate of the first black President? I doubt it, since I've criticized him and I certainly didn't "hate" him.

Did you criticize Obama? Did you "hate-speech" against him?
Click to expand...

code1211 said:
You seem to have missed entirely the point of my post. That's okay.
Click to expand...



Your post was garbage. I showed why. No need to roll out the lazy trolling tactics, like announcing that anyone who failed to agree "missed the point".

:shrug:
 
Mr Person said:
Your post was garbage. I showed why. No need to roll out the lazy trolling tactics, like announcing that anyone who failed to agree "missed the point".

:shrug:
Click to expand...

You are free to do whatever it is that you are doing.
 
code1211 said:
You are free to do whatever it is that you are doing.
Click to expand...

As are you, apparently. And, for the record, racist jokes are abhorrent. In case you had no clue.
 
code1211 said:
I was surprised to find some years ago that I had become a member of a "Protected Class" at work because I became, in a legal sense, old.

I'm not sensitive about being old in any way. I AM old. A State of Being is just that.

That said, I interact with others in the course of a normal business day, both co-workers and customers, and engage in many humor filled exchanges. Jokes about me are abundant. Most are good natured ribbing. I give as good as I get.

It's not hard to differentiate between those jokes that are based on me personally or the conversation topic of the moment and those jokes that are targeting me as a member of a class.

I abandoned the notion that I was somehow superior to anyone years ago. Others seem to embrace and proclaim that notion in regard to themselves. They consider it to be their State of Being.
Click to expand...

I've already trashed the T-shirt on all that. :)

I once was exec of a large agency in a county that was 94% non-Hispanic caucasian, 2% black, 2% Hispanic, 2% other. Our national headquarters who checked our accreditation from time to time--apparently made up of all the fashionable neo-liberal types when that movement was just beginning to get really active--informed us that we were 'too white' and 'too normal'. On our staff of 70 some people, we needed more diversity they said. More black and Hispanic people. More veterans. More handicapped. Work on it. When they left, my HPER director grumbled where are we going to find a black WAC from Mexico with a bad leg who could do a job we needed done?

It cracked me up. It was funny. But if the President or any other prominent conservative--I have no idea whether my HPER director was conservative or not--publicly cracked a joke like that, he/she would be crucified in the media and on message boards these days.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I've already trashed the T-shirt on all that. :)

I once was exec of a large agency in a county that was 94% non-Hispanic caucasian, 2% black, 2% Hispanic, 2% other. Our national headquarters who checked our accreditation from time to time--apparently made up of all the fashionable neo-liberal types when that movement was just beginning to get really active--informed us that we were 'too white' and 'too normal'. On our staff of 70 some people, we needed more diversity they said. More black and Hispanic people. More veterans. More handicapped. Work on it. When they left, my HPER director grumbled where are we going to find a black WAC from Mexico with a bad leg who could do a job we needed done?

It cracked me up. It was funny. But if the President or any other prominent conservative--I have no idea whether my HPER director was conservative or not--publicly cracked a joke like that, he/she would be crucified in the media and on message boards these days.
Click to expand...

That would not have been a racist joke. Racist jokes are, you know, racist. They usually disparage people of a certain race, religion or ethnicity by playing off the stereotypes of that group. Now, if he said, "I guess we'll have to hire us a few Mexicans and start serving tacos in the cafeteria set aside a siesta room," that would have been racist.
 
calamity said:
That would not have been a racist joke. Racist jokes are, you know, racist. They usually disparage people of a certain race, religion or ethnicity by playing off the stereotypes of that group. Now, if he said, "I guess we'll have to hire us a few Mexicans and start serving tacos in the cafeteria set aside a siesta room," that would have been racist.
Click to expand...

And I wouldn't see even that as racist. Stereotypical yes, but in my opinion, non-hateful stereotypes are fun, even endearing.
 
MrWonka said:
Is that a joke? Better questions would be in what way has Trump not demonstrated himself and his supporters to be bigots? His entire campaign was based on racism, sexism, homophobia, Islamophobia, and xenophobia.
Click to expand...

You soundalike Mrs. Clinton, obviously that nonsense didn't work in the past & is unlikely to work going forward!
 
A lot of posters here could never play for Woody Hayes. 'No druggies & no haters" a lot of haters on this thread.
The nightime guys are terrible but I laugh my ass off when I tune into Bill Maher, his jokes about Trump are funny
maybe it's his facial expression that help>

Earth to Trump haters, Trump is no hater I know that first hand.
 
code1211 said:
My mother has passed away.

That's aside, though. I get that you hate.

So, mission accomplished!

Good for you!
Click to expand...

It was a race joke about NASCAR. That kind of race is ok to hate. I don't hate it myself.
 
code1211 said:
Lately, many comedians are making jokes about Trump that are funny to those who hate Trump.

These jokes are very similar to jokes of a bygone age that always used minorities or members of hated races as the punch line.

The situation was not the joke- the hated race member was the joke and the malady or mishap that befell them was seen to be deserved and that is what made the joke.

The Race based jokes involved the inability of the butts of the jokes to restrain their imagined instinctual responses or imagined deeply held desires. The humor depended on the bias and hate held by the audience and the teller to be funny.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE HATE-BASED JOKES INTENDED TO DEMEAN AND DIMINISH MINORITIES AND THE SAME JOKES INTENDED TO DEMEAN AND DIMINISH TRUMP.

Oh for the days of Johnny Carson when he actually could tell a joke that was funny because it was funny.

When will the illegitimate heirs to Carson's legacy figure out that the jokes they tell brand them as the shallow, prejudiced and biased, hate mongers that they claim to despise.
Click to expand...

No, the jokes are NOT similar at all to racial jokes - you're making a plainly false equivalency. We ridicule Trump for what Trump says or does as an individual. Racial jokes, on the other hand, belittle an entire race for nothing more than being born a member of that race. Same thing with making jokes about the disabled.

Do you think it's funny or proper to ridicule a kid with Downs Syndrome? Maybe you do, but - like the overwhelming majority of Americans - you probably think that ridiculing a disabled person for the disability he or she is born with is in very poor taste indeed. Unfortunately, your side elected a president who DOES think it's funny to ridicule the disabled. But I guess I should't be surprised, since the one who was for over a decade one of the kingmakers of the GOP - Rush Limbaugh - accused Michael J. Fox of "faking" his Parkinson's Disease.
 
code1211 said:
Lately, many comedians are making jokes about Trump that are funny to those who hate Trump.

These jokes are very similar to jokes of a bygone age that always used minorities or members of hated races as the punch line.

The situation was not the joke- the hated race member was the joke and the malady or mishap that befell them was seen to be deserved and that is what made the joke.

The Race based jokes involved the inability of the butts of the jokes to restrain their imagined instinctual responses or imagined deeply held desires. The humor depended on the bias and hate held by the audience and the teller to be funny.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE HATE-BASED JOKES INTENDED TO DEMEAN AND DIMINISH MINORITIES AND THE SAME JOKES INTENDED TO DEMEAN AND DIMINISH TRUMP.

Oh for the days of Johnny Carson when he actually could tell a joke that was funny because it was funny.

When will the illegitimate heirs to Carson's legacy figure out that the jokes they tell brand them as the shallow, prejudiced and biased, hate mongers that they claim to despise.

Click to expand...

That's a pretty tolerant view you take there but not very liberal it is.
 
Racist jokes, even about you own race, can be funny to people who have self esteem based on self reliance. This is not funny to shallow people, whose self esteem is dependent on group think and identity politics.

As an analogy, if I was shallow and my entire identity and self esteem was based on the color yellow; I am the yellow man who wears yellow clothes, drives a yellow car and lives in a yellow house, yellow jokes can threaten my metastable mental state. Someone is not so dependent on the shallow of yellow, for self esteem, can laugh, because the joke points out a defect in personality when there is no depth of character.

The modern lack of a sense of humor is connected to one of the down sides of the feminization of culture, led by the Democrats. Many women spends a lot of her time putting on makeup to look prettier. This surface improvement is an important part of her self esteem. If you were to smudge her eye liner, this can create a lot of stress since it needs to look perfect. The Democrats have become too shallow and they are always so stressed out of fear that someone might wrinkle their group identity designer clothes. If you built depth, you can laugh, even at yourself. Wrinkles can be funny.

This is why the hippies looked like bums; male and female. It was about the depths not the surface.

Back in the early 1970's there were characters on TV like Archie Bunker and George Jefferson, who would be considered racist by modern liberal standards. Yet in that day, the liberals would laugh, because these young people had depth. Archie was white and George was black and both had a bigoted way of looking at the world. However, as you got to know the characters both had a good side you could like. The modern liberals stay in the shallows, and can't see that deep, anymore.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom