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When the NY Times Decides to Spell Out Profanity

I certainly haven't said that Scaramucci's words aren't appalling. They aren't the thread topic. If I'd wanted to discuss which is worse, I would've begun a poll asking people to compare apples and pencil shavings.

The topic is the change in the Times's editorial policy. Apparently, some people posting in this thread think that an organization's editorial policy and the filthy words of an individual spoken to a reporter are the same. Keep thinking.

Apparently you think it's better for the folks in the White House to speak this way in public than for a newspaper to accurately quote them.
 
That's right, Rocket. I'm sticking to the topic, and this forum is Bias in the Media. This thread isn't about Scaramucci; it's about the NY Times abandoning its editorial policy.

That's a cop out and you know it.
 
That's a cop out and you know it.

She's also mixing her apples with her oranges and denying it's fruit salad. The Times did censor the word **** from Reid's comment. As does DP. The Times did not censor the words suck and **** in Scaramucci's comment. And, neither does DP.

/thread
 
Although I haven't done so myself because anybody who knows anything about me can guess what I think about someone who is (1) profane in public and (2) too dumb to say, "This is off the record" and because the topic is the Times changing its editorial policy out of nowhere.

An anonymous board is probably the best place for those people who know all about you. Based on what little I have been able to observe, your post is more about the Trump Administration being portrayed in the filter of "swamp gas."
 
Accusing me of trying to push fake news is preposterous.
No, it's factual because that's exactly what you did. You pushed a position of a "news" source which was false and that any person with 5 minutes and Google could have discovered was false. You pushed fake news. Whether your knew it or not, you did.

The sad part about it is what's about to come.

If you'd like to discuss the NY Times's shift in editorial policy to allow the f-bomb, that's fine.
And hello fallacious argument.

No, no, let's try this again and review what you first said: "it's good to know that the NY Times has now abandoned any pretense at all at journalistic consistency, much less integrity."

And the reason you said this was because: "...Let’s not pretend there isn’t another reason the Times cast off its usual standards in quoting Scaramucci without using dashes or euphemisms or the catchall term “vulgarity.” Quoting Scaramucci accurately is a way to make the Trump administration look bad"

Your opening post CLEARLY stated the Times abandoned journalistic consistency and integrity because they quoted the vulgarity Scaramucci used and, according to you and your nakedly biased resource, they only did that to make the Trump administration look bad. But now we know that is a lie. We know the Times HAS printed vulgar language when other people have said it, including when the former Vice President said it. And, again, it took 5 minutes and Google to find.

You pushed fake news. You know what? You got snookered...no big deal, can happen to anyone. But what is disturbing now is that you aren't apologizing for it. You aren't admitting it. In fact, you try to engage in moving the goal posts, rather than doing the right thing and acknowledging it was fake news.

And, at that point, I'm really not interested in hearing any such person accuse anyone else of abandoning "consistency, much less integrity".

If you can point to an instance of this news outlet's permitting the other comment about sucking, that would be even better.
Don't have to, already have proven they'll print vulgarity in other situations. :shrug:

Try doing your own research if you're curious if they've printed it before.

My guess is that you have no interest at all in this and that your sole intent here was to "engage" me.
No, my sole intent was to address the falsehood you told. Now my intent is to see if you'll admit you were wrong.

Thank you for the advice to think for myself; I'm sure it was offered as a helpful hint.;)
It was actually. You see, the less people rely on nakedly biased sources and the more they try to think and research for themselves, the less things like fake news will be allowed to exist. It was offered as a helpful hint to you and to society in general.

So are you going to admit you were wrong about the Times?
 
:yt

Well written!
 
In contrast to its policy of not repeating "barnyard epithets," said policy existing only days ago when the Times refused to spell out what Senator Reed said about Farenthold in his hot-mic conversation with Susan Collins, now comes Scaramucci, and what do you know? It's time to abandon any pretense of editorial standards.

From NRO:

Two days later, though, the paper’s policy on reporting vulgarities seemed to have undergone a distinct change when it reported on White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci’s “colorful language” in an exchange with a New Yorker writer. The Times fully, even a bit gleefully, reported Scaramucci’s profane remarks. There is little precedent for a swear word used by Scaramucci ever to appear in the New York Times. Nor is there much, if any, precedent for directly quoting the kind of language Scaramucci used when he described an anatomically improbable act.

...Let’s not pretend there isn’t another reason the Times cast off its usual standards in quoting Scaramucci without using dashes or euphemisms or the catchall term “vulgarity.” Quoting Scaramucci accurately is a way to make the Trump administration look bad, and making the Trump administration look bad is the Times’ primary purpose these days. This has been its primary purpose since long before its executive editor, Dean Baquet, admitted he thought his columnist Jim Rutenberg “nailed it” when Rutenberg, in a column Baquet placed on the front page last August, begged America’s Fourth Estate to abandon (its usual pretense of) objectivity and be boldly oppositional to Trump.

New York Times & Anthony Scaramucci -- It Prints His Profanity, Not Others? | National Review

I've been saying since 2004 that the old grey lady became a two-bit doxy in its shamelessly partisan support for John Kerry, but still, it's good to know that the NY Times has now abandoned any pretense at all at journalistic consistency, much less integrity.

That's one of the more amazing articles I've read in a while, and it's surprising it appeared in NRO.

And it’s hard to imagine that Scaramucci, who is new both to Washington and to the communications profession, believed his comments would be reported. Is it uncommon for White House aides and other political figures to use swear words in chats with reporters? No, not at all. The chief reason the exchange wound up making news is that Scaramucci, seemingly unfamiliar with the way things are done in his new profession, neglected to utter the five magic words — “This is off the record” — that protect vulgar and mean-spirited political figures from looking vulgar and mean-spirited to the world.

Let’s not pretend there isn’t another reason the Times cast off its usual standards in quoting Scaramucci without using dashes or euphemisms or the catchall term “vulgarity.” Quoting Scaramucci accurately is a way to make the Trump administration look bad,

Read more at: New York Times & Anthony Scaramucci -- It Prints His Profanity, Not Others? | National Review

So, basically,
1) It's unfair to assume the WH Communications Director for the most powerful government on the planet has a basic understanding of his job. We SHOULD assume this person is so incompetent that it's "hard to imagine" that he understands conversations with reporters on the record might be accurately quoted!
2) Related, it's also unfair to accurately quote that same person in the news, and doing so is just an attempt to make Trump look bad.

I don't know but IMO what makes Trump and Mooch look bad is hiring an incompetent who went off on a vulgar rant against key insiders in the Trump WH. I'm pretty amazed NRO reduced itself to Trump boot licker with that article. They've typically been a little better than that with Trump stuff.
 
For some of us, there is a time and a place for everything, and some don't say these words every day. I don't think most people casually talk about somebody trying to suck himself off. Perhaps you do, but that's not my frame of reference.

And there is a difference between the spoken word, particularly in private/among friends, and the public written word. This is why I'm so amused by those who can't make a post here at DP without gratuitous swearing. I mean, if you can't control yourself when you're writing, you have major self-control issues. :lol:

But perhaps you're right. Why have any standards at all?

I think what is newsworthy is we (pre-Trump) have come to expect people working in positions like White House Communications Director are professionals and behave like professionals and don't go off on a vulgarity-laced rant about key insiders in the same White House in on the record discussions with reporters. Appointing a guy who does throw key WH insiders under the bus in a vulgarity laced rant to lead your communications efforts is the abandonment of standards, not the NYT ACCURATELY reporting what he said in an on the record interview.

So, I agree, there is a time and place for everything. And it seems obvious the WH Communications Director should be minimally competent at his job enough to know that throwing vulgar insults at your WH coworkers in an on the record interview with journalists is inadvisable.

Edit to say that IMO, whether the media spells out vulgarities or not depends on the context. If the vulgarity adds to the context and helps us better understand the story, then print it. And I don't really see an argument that exactly what a brand new communications director says about two senior WH officials, on the record, is not newsworthy. And to understand how stunning what he said really was, you have to read the actual words. It's almost unbelievable how he referred to Bannon and Priebus - IMO, you really DO have to read what he said to get a full understanding of how really unbelievable it was.
 
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No, it's factual because that's exactly what you did. You pushed a position of a "news" source which was false and that any person with 5 minutes and Google could have discovered was false. You pushed fake news. Whether your knew it or not, you did.

The sad part about it is what's about to come.

And hello fallacious argument.

No, no, let's try this again and review what you first said: "it's good to know that the NY Times has now abandoned any pretense at all at journalistic consistency, much less integrity."

And the reason you said this was because: "...Let’s not pretend there isn’t another reason the Times cast off its usual standards in quoting Scaramucci without using dashes or euphemisms or the catchall term “vulgarity.” Quoting Scaramucci accurately is a way to make the Trump administration look bad"

Your opening post CLEARLY stated the Times abandoned journalistic consistency and integrity because they quoted the vulgarity Scaramucci used and, according to you and your nakedly biased resource, they only did that to make the Trump administration look bad. But now we know that is a lie. We know the Times HAS printed vulgar language when other people have said it, including when the former Vice President said it. And, again, it took 5 minutes and Google to find.

You pushed fake news. You know what? You got snookered...no big deal, can happen to anyone. But what is disturbing now is that you aren't apologizing for it. You aren't admitting it. In fact, you try to engage in moving the goal posts, rather than doing the right thing and acknowledging it was fake news.

And, at that point, I'm really not interested in hearing any such person accuse anyone else of abandoning "consistency, much less integrity".

Don't have to, already have proven they'll print vulgarity in other situations. :shrug:

Try doing your own research if you're curious if they've printed it before.

No, my sole intent was to address the falsehood you told. Now my intent is to see if you'll admit you were wrong.

It was actually. You see, the less people rely on nakedly biased sources and the more they try to think and research for themselves, the less things like fake news will be allowed to exist. It was offered as a helpful hint to you and to society in general.

So are you going to admit you were wrong about the Times?

Boom!
 
That's a cop out and you know it.

If this thread were about Scaramucci and what he said, perhaps you would be right. But it's not.
 
An anonymous board is probably the best place for those people who know all about you. Based on what little I have been able to observe, your post is more about the Trump Administration being portrayed in the filter of "swamp gas."

Actually, although I do think that treating Senator Reed's vulgar language and Scaramucci's differently is hypocritical, I'm also approaching this topic as somebody who's been a working journo.
 
No, it's factual because that's exactly what you did. You pushed a position of a "news" source which was false and that any person with 5 minutes and Google could have discovered was false. You pushed fake news. Whether your knew it or not, you did.

Oh, just stop it. I wasn't "pushing a position" or "fake news"; I posted an article on the Times not quoting Senator Reed verbatim vs quoting Scaramucci verbatim.

And hello fallacious argument.

No, no, let's try this again and review what you first said: "it's good to know that the NY Times has now abandoned any pretense at all at journalistic consistency, much less integrity."

And the reason you said this was because: "...Let’s not pretend there isn’t another reason the Times cast off its usual standards in quoting Scaramucci without using dashes or euphemisms or the catchall term “vulgarity.” Quoting Scaramucci accurately is a way to make the Trump administration look bad"

I think quoting Scaramucci verbatim does make the Trump Admin look bad and that this is deserved. But I also think there was intent rather than a new goal of "accuracy," and the reason I said what I did about abandoning any pretense of integrity or fairness is the NY Times's decline since 2004, of which this is simply the most recent example. Your presumptuous guess is wrong.

Try doing your own research if you're curious if they've printed it before.

No, my sole intent was to address the falsehood you told. Now my intent is to see if you'll admit you were wrong.

You've accused me of telling a falsehood. This is a mistake. Your expressed intent is revealing, but I will stoop to meet you.

It was actually. You see, the less people rely on nakedly biased sources and the more they try to think and research for themselves, the less things like fake news will be allowed to exist. It was offered as a helpful hint to you and to society in general.

So are you going to admit you were wrong about the Times?

Oh, thank you, and may I suggest that you take your own advice and also that you read more carefully? The NRO article was about the difference between how the Times reported on what Senator Reed said and then how it quoted Scaramucci. Here is what the Times said about Reed’s remark:

[Mr. Reed used vulgar language in describing how Ms. Collins would win.]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/...san-collins-in-bipartisan-gossip-session.html

So are you going to admit you were wrong about the Times?

I stand by what I said: In publishing the above (and in brackets) and then quoting Scaramucci’s filthy comments, the New York Times has now abandoned any pretense of fairness or journalistic integrity.

Now, are you going to admit that you didn’t really read or grasp the NRO article’s point and want to focus on whether it has ever used the f-bomb before rather than on what seems to me to be rank hypocrisy and that your real intent here is extracting an “I was wrong” from me?

Easy-peasy: The NY Times has used the f-bomb before.

And this wasn’t the point of my OP. But I’m happy to make you happy.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...filthy-language-in-the-new-york-times/535197/
 
Actually, although I do think that treating Senator Reed's vulgar language and Scaramucci's differently is hypocritical, I'm also approaching this topic as somebody who's been a working journo.

"Hypocrisy" is an epidemic. No let up in sight.
 
That's one of the more amazing articles I've read in a while, and it's surprising it appeared in NRO.

Read any of Mona Charen’s pieces lately? :lol:

So, basically,
1) It's unfair to assume the WH Communications Director for the most powerful government on the planet has a basic understanding of his job. We SHOULD assume this person is so incompetent that it's "hard to imagine" that he understands conversations with reporters on the record might be accurately quoted!
2) Related, it's also unfair to accurately quote that same person in the news, and doing so is just an attempt to make Trump look bad.

I don't know but IMO what makes Trump and Mooch look bad is hiring an incompetent who went off on a vulgar rant against key insiders in the Trump WH. I'm pretty amazed NRO reduced itself to Trump boot licker with that article. They've typically been a little better than that with Trump stuff.

I think what Scaramucci said is appalling; on the bright side, I know now pretty much what I need to about him.

As for your points—and I don’t know why others aren’t interested in discussing the shift in editorial policy but seem intent on focusing on Scaramucci himself and Trump when this is not the topic—(1) Yes, it’s fair to assume that the WH Comms Director will understand the fundamentals, among which is “This is off the record, and (2) This isn’t about “accurate” quoting, and I think it’s at least a little naïve not to see that a subtle little opportunity was seized here, one perhaps too subtle for some.
 
Read any of Mona Charen’s pieces lately? :lol:



I think what Scaramucci said is appalling; on the bright side, I know now pretty much what I need to about him.

As for your points—and I don’t know why others aren’t interested in discussing the shift in editorial policy but seem intent on focusing on Scaramucci himself and Trump when this is not the topic—(1) Yes, it’s fair to assume that the WH Comms Director will understand the fundamentals, among which is “This is off the record, and (2) This isn’t about “accurate” quoting, and I think it’s at least a little naïve not to see that a subtle little opportunity was seized here, one perhaps too subtle for some.

Careful, with your nose so high, it's likely to rain in there. If the NYT wasn't treating the current Administration fairly, according to your slant, I don't think you ever would have posted. The "failing" NYT has been under assault since before DJT touched the Bible.
Since you wrote the "old girl" off in 2004, you ought to know what to expect, being a "journo" and all.
 
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In contrast to its policy of not repeating "barnyard epithets," said policy existing only days ago when the Times refused to spell out what Senator Reed said about Farenthold in his hot-mic conversation with Susan Collins, now comes Scaramucci, and what do you know? It's time to abandon any pretense of editorial standards.

From NRO:

Two days later, though, the paper’s policy on reporting vulgarities seemed to have undergone a distinct change when it reported on White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci’s “colorful language” in an exchange with a New Yorker writer. The Times fully, even a bit gleefully, reported Scaramucci’s profane remarks. There is little precedent for a swear word used by Scaramucci ever to appear in the New York Times. Nor is there much, if any, precedent for directly quoting the kind of language Scaramucci used when he described an anatomically improbable act.

...Let’s not pretend there isn’t another reason the Times cast off its usual standards in quoting Scaramucci without using dashes or euphemisms or the catchall term “vulgarity.” Quoting Scaramucci accurately is a way to make the Trump administration look bad, and making the Trump administration look bad is the Times’ primary purpose these days. This has been its primary purpose since long before its executive editor, Dean Baquet, admitted he thought his columnist Jim Rutenberg “nailed it” when Rutenberg, in a column Baquet placed on the front page last August, begged America’s Fourth Estate to abandon (its usual pretense of) objectivity and be boldly oppositional to Trump.

New York Times & Anthony Scaramucci -- It Prints His Profanity, Not Others? | National Review

I've been saying since 2004 that the old grey lady became a two-bit doxy in its shamelessly partisan support for John Kerry, but still, it's good to know that the NY Times has now abandoned any pretense at all at journalistic consistency, much less integrity.

Do you know if it was the same writer both times? If it was a writing preference to not to quote vulgarities, or is there evidence that this decision was made by the editors.

Did they misrepresent any statements made by either party, or the context in which they said them?

Shouldn't you be more upset that the WH Communications Director is a poor communicator? At this point, Scaramuchi is an unforced error on Trump's part. At some point you have to stop blaming the media for picking the low hanging fruit, and start blaming the sloppy gardener.
 
Read any of Mona Charen’s pieces lately? :lol:



I think what Scaramucci said is appalling; on the bright side, I know now pretty much what I need to about him.

As for your points—and I don’t know why others aren’t interested in discussing the shift in editorial policy but seem intent on focusing on Scaramucci himself and Trump when this is not the topic—(1) Yes, it’s fair to assume that the WH Comms Director will understand the fundamentals, among which is “This is off the record, and (2) This isn’t about “accurate” quoting, and I think it’s at least a little naïve not to see that a subtle little opportunity was seized here, one perhaps too subtle for some.

You've compared two events - the 'hot mic' conversation between Collins and Reed and an on the record conversation between a reporter and the WH Communications Director. And you're insisting, effectively, that if the NYT ever prints vulgarity, it must always print vulgarity, or if it ever does not print the words, it should NEVER print the words. I don't buy that basic premise. Mindless consistency is mindless. The context matters, who said it matters, and sometimes it's important to see exactly what was said. IMO, in this case, it's obviously key to understanding the rant to see exactly how he characterized the (who we thought) then sitting Chief of Staff and Bannon.

You say what he said is "appalling" and that you now know all you need to about him but are then insisting the news should shield us in some way from...what he said. I don't agree. I think the actual words are a key part of the news of what he said.

With the Collins exchange, the circumstances are different. The biggest is this conversation was intended to be private versus Mooch ON THE RECORD with a reporter. And one Senator, in a private conversation, using vulgarity talking about an exchange with another in a different party is entirely different IMO than the WH Communications Director using vulgar language to trash key WH insiders ON THE RECORD.
 
I have noted that profanity and all manner of cheap hostility have become normalized in opinion pieces. This is not good for America, this is an abdication of standards and responsibility, this is a crawling down into the gutter to fight, this is the Elite Class once again getting it wrong....almost like they cant help themselves.
 
I have noted that profanity and all manner of cheap hostility have become normalized in opinion pieces. This is not good for America, this is an abdication of standards and responsibility, this is a crawling down into the gutter to fight, this is the Elite Class once again getting it wrong....almost like they cant help themselves.

It's unbelievable people are blaming the NYT for letting us know exactly the vulgar terms the WH Communications Director said, ON THE RECORD, about Bannon and Priebus. The lowering of standards to the damn floor was done by Trump by hiring this incompetent to run his communications efforts.
 
No, it's factual because that's exactly what you did. You pushed a position of a "news" source which was false and that any person with 5 minutes and Google could have discovered was false. You pushed fake news. Whether your knew it or not, you did.

The sad part about it is what's about to come.

And hello fallacious argument.

No, no, let's try this again and review what you first said: "it's good to know that the NY Times has now abandoned any pretense at all at journalistic consistency, much less integrity."

And the reason you said this was because: "...Let’s not pretend there isn’t another reason the Times cast off its usual standards in quoting Scaramucci without using dashes or euphemisms or the catchall term “vulgarity.” Quoting Scaramucci accurately is a way to make the Trump administration look bad"

Your opening post CLEARLY stated the Times abandoned journalistic consistency and integrity because they quoted the vulgarity Scaramucci used and, according to you and your nakedly biased resource, they only did that to make the Trump administration look bad. But now we know that is a lie. We know the Times HAS printed vulgar language when other people have said it, including when the former Vice President said it. And, again, it took 5 minutes and Google to find.


You pushed fake news. You know what? You got snookered...no big deal, can happen to anyone. But what is disturbing now is that you aren't apologizing for it. You aren't admitting it. In fact, you try to engage in moving the goal posts, rather than doing the right thing and acknowledging it was fake news.

And, at that point, I'm really not interested in hearing any such person accuse anyone else of abandoning "consistency, much less integrity".

Don't have to, already have proven they'll print vulgarity in other situations. :shrug:


Try doing your own research if you're curious if they've printed it before.

No, my sole intent was to address the falsehood you told. Now my intent is to see if you'll admit you were wrong.

It was actually. You see, the less people rely on nakedly biased sources and the more they try to think and research for themselves, the less things like fake news will be allowed to exist. It was offered as a helpful hint to you and to society in general.

So are you going to admit you were wrong about the Times?

... reading these sentences like.

df56ecd6b2e49e9f8998691d695d7452.gif


Laaaaawd, have mercy.
 
Read any of Mona Charen’s pieces lately? :lol:



I think what Scaramucci said is appalling; on the bright side, I know now pretty much what I need to about him.

As for your points—and I don’t know why others aren’t interested in discussing the shift in editorial policy but seem intent on focusing on Scaramucci himself and Trump when this is not the topic—(1) Yes, it’s fair to assume that the WH Comms Director will understand the fundamentals, among which is “This is off the record, and (2) This isn’t about “accurate” quoting, and I think it’s at least a little naïve not to see that a subtle little opportunity was seized here, one perhaps too subtle for some.

A poster has explained to you that 1) this has been done before to Democrats (the ****ing VP!) 2) this isn't a shift in editorial policy.

At this point for you to deny a simple reality because you've read the Birther Review and claim a journalism background is pretty ridiculous. We have discussed it. The worst part is that the Birther Review's entire argument lays on a simple premise: Quoting somebody accurately makes a person look bad. What kind of journalism background do you where quoting people accurately is seen as a way to make them look bad instead of you know... just doing your job?

You were proven to be wrong, time to move along.

:)
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/...id-just-kept-saying-the-exact-same-thing.html

Oh look, the Times didn't censor Joe Biden when he dropped an F-bomb, thus rendering this thread irrelevant. And here they printed it again:


Former tennis star faces ban for calling female players ?bitches? – Women in the World in Association with The New York Times – WITW

And how about when reporting on Hillary Clinton's e-mail server?


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/03/us/politics/hillary-clinton-fbi.html




This is why you shouldn't read nakedly biased sources and should try to think for yourself and do research for yourself. Now that you see your wrong nota bene, I fully expect you to retract your position and apologize for pushing "fake news". Right?
Yeah, but that's not really true.

Annnnnnnnd splat
 
Accusing me of trying to push fake news is preposterous.

If you'd like to discuss the NY Times's shift in editorial policy to allow the f-bomb, that's fine. If you can point to an instance of this news outlet's permitting the other comment about sucking, that would be even better.

My guess is that you have no interest at all in this and that your sole intent here was to "engage" me. Thank you for the advice to think for myself; I'm sure it was offered as a helpful hint.;)

You started a post suggesting/arguing that the NYT prints right winger's bad words to make them look bad, but uses asterix for left wingers' bad words (The thread was based on National Review, a far-right media outlet, not based on a systemtic review of all the times the NYT did and did not print curses out). Slyfox showed that to be false. It's really that simple.
 
It's unbelievable people are blaming the NYT for letting us know exactly the vulgar terms the WH Communications Director said, ON THE RECORD, about Bannon and Priebus. The lowering of standards to the damn floor was done by Trump by hiring this incompetent to run his communications efforts.

That argument does not work when so many do it now......now had the elite taken the tack "this is not up to our standards of decency so we will not follow" things would be different, but with as much profanity and cheap hostility as I see from the opinion molders "OMG, Team Trump sucks so bad for doing this" does not hunt.
 
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Since the nyt ruined the iht I have not really liked the paper. But until the campaign they were more or less believable. Now there is no pretense anymore of reporting news rather than opinion.
So you don't like the paper that publishes truthful but critical articles about Trump and further claim that the NYT is less believable. How, exactly, is publishing Scaramanga's exact words verbatim either "not believable" or "opinion?"
 
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