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Shep Smith to Chris Wallace: ‘Why is it lie after lie after lie’

NeverTrump

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The two most respected men on Fox News dish it out and agree on all the lies!

 
The elite have been bigtime liars for a long time, there is nothing new here.
 
Junior's email chain -- which he forwarded to Manafort and Kushner long before its release -- has exposed the lie in pretty much every single thing the Trump administration has said about Russia in the last year.

At the very least, there's a few people guilty of perjury here.
 
Junior's email chain -- which he forwarded to Manafort and Kushner long before its release -- has exposed the lie in pretty much every single thing the Trump administration has said about Russia in the last year.

At the very least, there's a few people guilty of perjury here.

Only if they lied under oath. Who has done that?
 
A disclosure form is a document that is sworn to.

The question is how many in the current administration have done that? I think we can think of a few, don't you all agree?
 
Shep seemed far more committed to a more complete and honest view of this than Wallace did who even now seems to hold back a bit. But glad to see that even FOX - at least some of them there - are starting to face reality.

I love the line from Sheps grannie with the old adage about the tangled web of deception. Classic. Wallace replied "I don't know what to say."

I am interested to see some polling taken after Friday and see if any of the Trump voters are now having buyers remorse.
 
They also took an oath when they were appointed.

Oath of Office for Federal Officials



Employees of the United States Government including all members of Congress are required to take the following oath before assuming elected or appointed office.



5 U.S.C. 3331:



�An individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed services shall take the following oath: �I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.��
 
A disclosure form is a document that is sworn to.

The question is how many in the current administration have done that? I think we can think of a few, don't you all agree?

Disclosure forms can be amended retroactively. It is done all the time.

In fact, the meeting in question was "discovered" as the result of Jared Kushner's amending his disclosure form.

Of note; according to the news reports there were three other people present at the Trump Jr. meeting.

This included: Rinat Akhmetshin a Russian-American lobbyist; a translator; and a representative of the Russian family who had asked Goldstone to set up the meeting.

The "Russian Agent" Trump Jr. is supposed to have failed to mention is Rinat Akhmetshin...who happens to be a naturalized AMERICAN citizen.

In 2009, he obtained citizenship of the United States. Akhmetshin told Politico: "Just because I was born in Russia doesn't mean I am an agent of [the] Kremlin."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinat_Akhmetshin#cite_note-Eckel-7

Nor is he registered as a foreign agent under the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA), although some believe that he should be.

He is a lobbyist for hire and has been working with Veselnitskaya's organization to overturn the Magnitsky adoption ban sanctions.

As he is an American citizen, there is no obligation to report him as a "foreign contact" on any disclosure form.
 
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UM, that's only about 3-5 foreign nationals of the more than 100 names that Kushner alone failed to include.
 
Junior's email chain -- which he forwarded to Manafort and Kushner long before its release -- has exposed the lie in pretty much every single thing the Trump administration has said about Russia in the last year.

At the very least, there's a few people guilty of perjury here.

I wonder how you know that at least a few people involved are guilty of perjury. That crime is famously hard to prove, and yet you claim to know that some of these people--you don't name them--are guilty of it. If there were trials or even indictments, I haven't heard about them.

No wrongdoing at all has been shown, let alone perjury. There is no shortage of false statements being made, though, and they are being made by people who are still sulking because the habitual liar they supported failed to win the presidency.
 
The basis is that they lied under oath. It's an objective fact. I.E., it's reality.

I only deal in reality. I recommend that to everyone.

I take your failure to answer my question as your acknowledgment that you're not a lawyer. Some people might think that's relevant in deciding how much weight to give your assertions about matters of law.
 
I take your failure to answer my question as your acknowledgment that you're not a lawyer. Some people might think that's relevant in deciding how much weight to give your assertions about matters of law.

One does not need to be a lawyer in order to recognize and reference objective fact. I am involved in the law, but not as a lawyer.

The earth orbits the sun. One need not be an astrophysicist in order to assert that.

I recommend you deal only in reality.
 
Disclosure forms can be amended retroactively. It is done all the time.

In fact, the meeting in question was "discovered" as the result of Jared Kushner's amending his disclosure form.

Of note; according to the news reports there were three other people present at the Trump Jr. meeting.

This included: Rinat Akhmetshin a Russian-American lobbyist; a translator; and a representative of the Russian family who had asked Goldstone to set up the meeting.

The "Russian Agent" Trump Jr. is supposed to have failed to mention is Rinat Akhmetshin...who happens to be a naturalized AMERICAN citizen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinat_Akhmetshin#cite_note-Eckel-7

Nor is he registered as a foreign agent under the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA), although some believe that he should be.

He is a lobbyist for hire and has been working with Veselnitskaya's organization to overturn the Magnitsky adoption ban sanctions.

As he is an American citizen, there is no obligation to report him as a "foreign contact" on any disclosure form.

Born in Russia, Akhmetshin served in the Soviet military and emigrated to the U.S., where he holds dual citizenship.
Former Soviet Counterintelligence Officer at Meeting With Donald Trump Jr. and Russian Lawyer - NBC News


So Rinat Akhmetshin is a Russian-American lobbyist. He emigrated to the U.S. He got dual citizenship about eight years ago. And he now lives here in Washington, D.C. He's also a former Soviet counterintelligence officer, and he's suspected by some U.S. officials of having ongoing ties to Russian intelligence. He was also accused in a 2015 lawsuit with attempting to hack into a mining company's computers. But he denies that and says he has no ties to Russian intelligence agencies.
Russian Lobbyist Also Attended Meeting With Donald Trump Jr. : NPR


Rinat Akhmetshin, a dual Russian-American citizen and lobbyist who has been accused of acting as “an unregistered agent for Russian interests” and with ties to Russian military intelligence service, or GRU, has confirmed he attended the meeting with lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya.
Donald Trump Jr: Former Soviet counterintelligence officer confirms he attended Russian lawyer meeting | The Independent
 
Disclosure forms can be amended retroactively. It is done all the time.

In fact, the meeting in question was "discovered" as the result of Jared Kushner's amending his disclosure form.

Of note; according to the news reports there were three other people present at the Trump Jr. meeting.

This included: Rinat Akhmetshin a Russian-American lobbyist; a translator; and a representative of the Russian family who had asked Goldstone to set up the meeting.

The "Russian Agent" Trump Jr. is supposed to have failed to mention is Rinat Akhmetshin...who happens to be a naturalized AMERICAN citizen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinat_Akhmetshin#cite_note-Eckel-7

Nor is he registered as a foreign agent under the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA), although some believe that he should be.

He is a lobbyist for hire and has been working with Veselnitskaya's organization to overturn the Magnitsky adoption ban sanctions.

As he is an American citizen, there is no obligation to report him as a "foreign contact" on any disclosure form.
Do you think the amending happened out of a spontaneous recall....or do you think he amended because it is better for him to do it before the "aha" moment happened ?
 
Born in Russia, Akhmetshin served in the Soviet military and emigrated to the U.S., where he holds dual citizenship.
Former Soviet Counterintelligence Officer at Meeting With Donald Trump Jr. and Russian Lawyer - NBC News

Irrelevant. :shrug:

Do you think the amending happened out of a spontaneous recall....or do you think he amended because it is better for him to do it before the "aha" moment happened ?

I don't see this as an either/or proposition like you propose. I prefer to look at things in the best light possible. In this case, after the Flynn incident I think all of Trump's staff were told to do a fact check and update their forms to the best of their ability.

As for being expected to remember every meeting that subsequently seems to be important, when it was not considered so at the time?

I think that people meet lots of other people over the course of their lifetimes, typically considering such meetings unimportant.

This meeting with Trump Jr. was probably one of several hundred that were going on during the campaign, and according to all reports, turned out to be a bait and switch. Since nothing came of it there was nothing to remember.

I also believe it is easy to forget meeting with "foreigners" when the meeting is of minor or non-importance.

I would challenge anyone to list ALL the people they have ever met that might be a citizen of a foreign nation.
 
A disclosure form is a document that is sworn to.

The question is how many in the current administration have done that? I think we can think of a few, don't you all agree?

trumposters are anxiously awaiting whether Mueller agrees .
 
Irrelevant. :shrug:



I don't see this as an either/or proposition like you propose. I prefer to look at things in the best light possible. In this case, after the Flynn incident I think all of Trump's staff were told to do a fact check and update their forms to the best of their ability.

I think that people meet lots of other people over the course of their lifetimes, typically considering such meetings unimportant.

I also believe it is easy to forget meeting with "foreigners" when the meeting is of minor or non-importance.

I would challenge anyone to list ALL the people they have ever met that might be a citizen of a foreign nation.

Finally, this meeting with Trump Jr. was probably one of several hundred that were going on during the campaign, and according to all reports, turned out to be a bait and switch. Since nothing came of it there was nothing to remember.

It is not necessary for a person to remember each and every meeting ever.

But if someone wants security clearance and such and cannot remember a meeting that was taken with foreign players in order to attempt to throw a monkey wrench into the opponents campaign.....they either have serious memory loss and should see a neurologist ASAP or they purposefully left it off a form. This was not a spontaneous meeting. It was planned and important to him.....even if it did turn out to be a "nothing burger"

I stand by what I said.

I believe he was in danger of being outed during the ongoing investigation and tried to cover his ass.
 
Irrelevant. :shrug:



I don't see this as an either/or proposition like you propose. I prefer to look at things in the best light possible. In this case, after the Flynn incident I think all of Trump's staff were told to do a fact check and update their forms to the best of their ability.

As for being expected to remember every meeting that subsequently seems to be important, when it was not considered so at the time?

I think that people meet lots of other people over the course of their lifetimes, typically considering such meetings unimportant.

This meeting with Trump Jr. was probably one of several hundred that were going on during the campaign, and according to all reports, turned out to be a bait and switch. Since nothing came of it there was nothing to remember.

I also believe it is easy to forget meeting with "foreigners" when the meeting is of minor or non-importance.

I would challenge anyone to list ALL the people they have ever met that might be a citizen of a foreign nation.

Yet, there was a (C) mark )for confidential) (marked in error) on an insignificant email out of 100,000 Clinton emails regarding a freakin' condolence call -- and the right wing had a major cow fit about it.

The hypocrisy is astounding.
 
Junior's email chain -- which he forwarded to Manafort and Kushner long before its release -- has exposed the lie in pretty much every single thing the Trump administration has said about Russia in the last year.

At the very least, there's a few people guilty of perjury here.

Wallace hit it on the head. The narrative that Trump and his supporters have been parroting for the last 6 months is bogus. The Trump team did meet with the Russians in hope of collusion, this is not fake news, nor is it Dem butt hurt from Nov 2016. That spin has been proven to be BS, that much is a fact, but why should facts get in the way of Trump delusions, and out right lies.
 
It is not necessary for a person to remember each and every meeting ever.

But if someone wants security clearance and such and cannot remember a meeting that was taken with foreign players in order to attempt to throw a monkey wrench into the opponents campaign.....they either have serious memory loss and should see a neurologist ASAP or they purposefully left it off a form. This was not a spontaneous meeting. It was planned and important to him.....even if it did turn out to be a "nothing burger"

I stand by what I said.

I believe he was in danger of being outed during the ongoing investigation and tried to cover his ass.

It was "planned and important," then turned out to be nothing of the kind.

Ask any campaign organizer; how many attempts are made to meet and influence a candidate which end up being a complete waste of time?

One can recall such meetings may have happened, but one would typically considered them unimportant simply because they were a waste of time.

What you and other's seem to think is that simply because he agreed to meet to hear some dirt, this means there was intent to collude and thus probably actual collusion.

However, listening to alleged information, and using it are two different things.

Let's try looking at this in the best (rather than your lean, the worst) light possible.

Suppose Trump Jr. wanted to hear it to see if it was usable, isn't is also possible that he wanted to hear it to see if it needed to be reported?

In any case, I repeat...it turned out to be a complete waste of time, just another lobby attempt for a special interest, and that's the end of it.

NOTE: I still don't believe there was any collusion. However, if actual evidence of clear criminality is revealed? I have no problem with taking the appropriate legal action to deal with it, even if this ultimately results in valid impeachment for "high crimes and misdemeanors."
 
It was "planned and important," then turned out to be nothing of the kind.

Ask any campaign organizer; how many attempts are made to meet and influence a candidate which end up being a complete waste of time?

One can recall such meetings may have happened, but one would typically considered them unimportant simply because they were a waste of time.

What you and other's seem to think is that simply because he agreed to meet to hear some dirt, this means there was intent to collude and thus probably actual collusion.

However, listening to alleged information, and using it are two different things.

Let's try looking at this in the best (rather than your lean, the worst) light possible.

Suppose Trump Jr. wanted to hear it to see if it was usable, isn't is also possible that he wanted to hear it to see if it needed to be reported?

In any case, I repeat...it turned out to be a complete waste of time, just another lobby attempt for a special interest, and that's the end of it.

NOTE: I still don't believe there was any collusion. However, if actual evidence of clear criminality is revealed? I have no problem with taking the appropriate legal action to deal with it, even if this ultimately results in valid impeachment for "high crimes and misdemeanors."

This was not 15 years ago. It was a meeting with important players to attempt to sabotage and opponent.

I never stated anything about crimes.

I have always stated this investigation just needs to unfold no matter what it shows. If the investigation shows "nothingburger" I will be satisfied. I think the person in charge is a stand up guy that has the ability to take things in context.
 
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