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Rachel Maddow’s urgent warning to the rest of the media

ajn678 said:
Don't worry, most of the the media including Maddow are already illegitimate hacks.
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Do tell us what news orgs to trust.
 
Cardinal said:
Frankly, it's astonishing this hasn't happened already. If reporters are smart, they'll take any too-good-to-be-true documents and hand them over to Robert Mueller immediately. I know that journalists want the big scoop, but this is Mueller's jurisdiction now. He can sort through the dross quietly and efficiently. If a journalist did publish a bad report, it would delegitimize not just the press, but the findings of Mueller's own investigation since it would cement in people's minds that all of this is one hilarious conspiracy theory and any finding can be dismissed outright, however tangential to the fake document itself it may be. Which, of course, is the point.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...the-rest-of-the-media/?utm_term=.19121fe41f5d
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Yeah, then they could cry "fake news." Somebody acting like that should be outed. I wonder if it was regular person, a blogger, etc. What kinds of people would be doing something like that?
 
Cardinal said:
Well, sure, there were all the fake news stories the Russians created and circulated. But this is different and far more grave: if there is indeed someone trying to shop around a fake collusion document, it is only meant to be the knockout punch to the legitimacy of the entire free press.

A strange dynamic has taken hold whereby Trump can lie infinitely and with impunity, but journalists and reporters have to have a 100% batting average. They can't slip even once.
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So who was giving her a fake scoop? Was it a Russian, an American? I am really curious to know what kind of person is doing this.
 
SheWolf said:
Yeah, then they could cry "fake news." Somebody acting like that should be outed. I wonder if it was regular person, a blogger, etc. What kinds of people would be doing something like that?
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Frankly, anybody. The future of a free press is in a very tenuous place right now, and journalists have to be on their guard against the countless ways some people want to muzzle them forever.
 
SheWolf said:
Yeah, then they could cry "fake news." Somebody acting like that should be outed. I wonder if it was regular person, a blogger, etc. What kinds of people would be doing something like that?
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Did you listen to the actual show?

If not, check it out. Maddow lays out a timeline that appears to point the finger at The Intercept.
 
apdst said:
And...leaking classified material...isn't.
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You are wrong. But don't stop trying.

The Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act (ICWPA) of 1998 provides a secure means for employees to report to Congress allegations regarding classified information.​
 
Cardinal said:
Frankly, anybody. The future of a free press is in a very tenuous place right now, and journalists have to be on their guard against the countless ways some people want to muzzle them forever.
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The press should take greater care to keep from shooting themselves in the foot.
 
poweRob said:
You are wrong. But don't stop trying.

The Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act (ICWPA) of 1998 provides a secure means for employees to report to Congress allegations regarding classified information.​
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So, leaking classified information is legal? Get real dude!
 
apdst said:
So, leaking classified information is legal? Get real dude!
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This link is directly from the official Department of Defense Office of Inspector General website.

Read.

Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act (ICWPA)

The Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act (ICWPA) of 1998 provides a secure means for employees to report to Congress allegations regarding classified information.​
 
apdst said:
Did you even read your own ****ing source??
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Post where I'm wrong. Is the DoD Office of Inspector wrong while you are right? Quit spinning. You are almost embarrassing yourself as much as your vanilla shake posts.
 
poweRob said:
If you watch the segement, Maddow showed how the Intercept got that Reality Winner document and then somewhere that same exact document got forged and then sent to MSNBC. Her staff then took it the NSA for verificatoin and they showed her how it was a forgery in very specific details.
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I actually did watch that show. Over 20 minutes, she showed a step by step, point by point, verification of how the documents sent to her were based on a photocopy of the Reality Winner NSA document... and thus, were fake. She gave a heads up to the entire media on what to look for, along with a warning to never run with a classified document that has not been NSA verified (after including NSA redacting, of course).

The very fact that such careful forgeries are being shopped around the media means there is quite a cadre out there attempting to either falsely implicate Trump's campaign to hasten his departure (unlikely, since the minute the actual Intelligence Community got ahold of it, the document would be instantly recognized as false), or to wait until the document had been publicly released then immediately debunking the forgeries to taint the media, and the entire Special Counsel investigation, as a hoax and a witch hunt hoping it would stop the Russia investigation entirely.
 
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poweRob said:
Man would that suck but I would laugh so hard through that pain due to the biggest hypocrisy ever. Then die by laughing so hard I choke on my tongue.
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The history channel has been great tonight with new episodes on UFOs, MJ-12 etc. and there's a new one on right now for 2 hours.

Who among us would want trump to know our secrets since Roswell 1947 ?
 
DiAnna said:
I actually did watch that show. Over 20 minutes, she showed a step by step, point by point, verification of how the documents sent to her were based on a photocopy of the Reality Winner NSA document... and thus, were fake. She gave a heads up to the entire media on what to look for, along with a warning to never run with a classified document that has not been NSA verified (after including NSA redacting, of course).

The very fact that such careful forgeries are being shopped around the media means there is quite a cadre out there attempting to either falsely implicate Trump's campaign to hasten his departure (unlikely, since the minute the actual Intelligence Community got ahold of it, the document would be instantly recognized as false), or to wait until the document had been publicly released then immediately debunking the forgeries to taint the media, and the entire Special Counsel investigation, as a hoax and a witch hunt hoping it would stop the entire Russia investigation entirely.
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It so damn scary. The attempts to discredit actual media. What's scarier is people applauding this and not even seeing that they are being controlled.
 
DiAnna said:
I actually did watch that show. Over 20 minutes, she showed a step by step, point by point, verification of how the documents sent to her were based on a photocopy of the Reality Winner NSA document... and thus, were fake. She gave a heads up to the entire media on what to look for, along with a warning to never run with a classified document that has not been NSA verified (after including NSA redacting, of course).

The very fact that such careful forgeries are being shopped around the media means there is quite a cadre out there attempting to either falsely implicate Trump's campaign to hasten his departure (unlikely, since the minute the actual Intelligence Community got ahold of it, the document would be instantly recognized as false), or to wait until the document had been publicly released then immediately debunking the forgeries to taint the media, and the entire Special Counsel investigation, as a hoax and a witch hunt hoping it would stop the entire Russia investigation entirely.
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The spooky thing was that the stamp on the forged document shows it was made after Winner was arrested but BEFORE her stolen document was placed online for all to see. Whoever made the forgery had access to the real document before it was released online. That narrows the potential authors quite a bit and I'm pretty sure Trump's cohorts are in the running. It would not surprise me one bit if it was done with Trumps knowledge/orders either. Score one for Maddow. It worries me what they may try next though. It had better not be what Putin does with Russia's best journalists. That will not stand here.
 
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Cardinal said:
Well, sure, there were all the fake news stories the Russians created and circulated. But this is different and far more grave: if there is indeed someone trying to shop around a fake collusion document, it is only meant to be the knockout punch to the legitimacy of the entire free press.

A strange dynamic has taken hold whereby Trump can lie infinitely and with impunity, but journalists and reporters have to have a 100% batting average. They can't slip even once.
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Politicians lie.

Journalist are supposed to report facts.

Yes, journalists do have to have a 100% batting average, namely because not being wrong is the reason for their existence. Journalists are marked by the confidence people have in their integrity, and reputation is everything.

Politicians are expected to lie, and it is the job of the Fourth Estate to keep them in check... and journalists cannot perform this function if they also lie! I have been saying it since the middle of the campaign last year - the narrative-driven, sloppy reporting environment is HELPING Trump.
 
DiAnna said:
I actually did watch that show. Over 20 minutes, she showed a step by step, point by point, verification of how the documents sent to her were based on a photocopy of the Reality Winner NSA document... and thus, were fake. She gave a heads up to the entire media on what to look for, along with a warning to never run with a classified document that has not been NSA verified (after including NSA redacting, of course).

The very fact that such careful forgeries are being shopped around the media means there is quite a cadre out there attempting to either falsely implicate Trump's campaign to hasten his departure (unlikely, since the minute the actual Intelligence Community got ahold of it, the document would be instantly recognized as false), or to wait until the document had been publicly released then immediately debunking the forgeries to taint the media, and the entire Special Counsel investigation, as a hoax and a witch hunt hoping it would stop the Russia investigation entirely.
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Wonder why the source was not tracked down and doxed (or threatened to) CNN style? That would be interesting.
 
poweRob said:
Post where I'm wrong. Is the DoD Office of Inspector wrong while you are right? Quit spinning. You are almost embarrassing yourself as much as your vanilla shake posts.
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You seem to be missing the part about "report to congress" it isn't legal to leak classified information.
 
nota bene said:
From your link:

In other words, anyone who took the document directly from The Intercept’s site would have a document with exactly the same time stamp as the one Maddow showed. Thus, rather than proving that this document was created before The Intercept’s publication, the time stamp featured by Maddow strongly suggests exactly the opposite: that it was taken from The Intercept’s site.

Nobody from Maddow’s show or MSNBC reached out to The Intercept before running this story. This was odd for many reasons, including the fact that Maddow offered several speculative theories about The Intercept’s reporting on the document, including her belief that a crease that appeared on the document sent to her was the same as the crease that the Trump DOJ, in its affidavit, claimed appeared on The Intercept’s document.

...Maddow’s warnings about the need for caution and authentication are important ones, but if — as seems likely — the document MSNBC received was sent by someone who got it from The Intercept’s site, then the significance of this story seems very minimal, and the more ominous theories her report raises seem to be baseless. https://theintercept.com/2017/07/07...ke-nsa-document-raises-several-key-questions/
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nota bene:

Yup, I read it all and reread some parts two or three times. I also listened to the Maddow report twice. My first post was laying out MSNBC's case and my second post was a general rebuttal by Glenn Greenwald of The Intercept. I do not have enough technical knowledge to either support or reject each claim so I posted both POVs for others to assess. My position is I don't know what really happened.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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poweRob said:
Do tell us what news orgs to trust.
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None really. Most of them at this point are simply massive corporations who only care about making money.
 
DiAnna said:
I actually did watch that show. Over 20 minutes, she showed a step by step, point by point, verification of how the documents sent to her were based on a photocopy of the Reality Winner NSA document... and thus, were fake. She gave a heads up to the entire media on what to look for, along with a warning to never run with a classified document that has not been NSA verified (after including NSA redacting, of course).

The very fact that such careful forgeries are being shopped around the media means there is quite a cadre out there attempting to either falsely implicate Trump's campaign to hasten his departure (unlikely, since the minute the actual Intelligence Community got ahold of it, the document would be instantly recognized as false), or to wait until the document had been publicly released then immediately debunking the forgeries to taint the media, and the entire Special Counsel investigation, as a hoax and a witch hunt hoping it would stop the Russia investigation entirely.
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The most important lesson to remember from the Dan Rather debacle isn't that the story of Bush going AWOL was false, but that the evidence he used for his report wasn't properly vetted. This created the conclusion that the story was debunked and as a result Bush's shirking of his military duties was never spoken of again. As Dan Froomkin said, "The only journalistic sin worse than disastrously misreporting an important story that turns out to be untrue is disastrously misreporting an important story that is true, so no one believes it anymore."

https://theintercept.com/2015/10/27/george-w-bush-was-awol-but-whats-truth-got-to-do-with-it/

I have to believe there are plenty of people who remember the Dan Rather tragedy well, and who wish to repeat the outcome of that mistake here. If "they" can get one respectable news personality to go all in on a Russian collusion report that turns out to be fake, then it's game over, and Mueller can go back to whatever it is he was doing before he was appointed Special Counsel.
 
It's inconceivable that any American would allow a foreign or domestic entity to destroy the basic premise and the ideals of the United States. Do they want the type of governments that 45 seems to admire , those like Putin's, the Saudis, Erdogan, Duterte?
 
Parrish said:
It's inconceivable that any American would allow a foreign or domestic entity to destroy the basic premise and the ideals of the United States. Do they want the type of governments that 45 seems to admire , those like Putin's, the Saudis, Erdogan, Duterte?
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During interviews with Trump supporters at rallies, the phrase "benevolent monarch" will be tossed about.
 
Cardinal said:
Frankly, it's astonishing this hasn't happened already. If reporters are smart, they'll take any too-good-to-be-true documents and hand them over to Robert Mueller immediately. I know that journalists want the big scoop, but this is Mueller's jurisdiction now. He can sort through the dross quietly and efficiently. If a journalist did publish a bad report, it would delegitimize not just the press, but the findings of Mueller's own investigation since it would cement in people's minds that all of this is one hilarious conspiracy theory and any finding can be dismissed outright, however tangential to the fake document itself it may be. Which, of course, is the point.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...the-rest-of-the-media/?utm_term=.19121fe41f5d
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It has happened before: Dan Rather and W's AWOL paper. He was set up, took the bait, and lost his career.
 
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