Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of analysis

Gaugingcatenate · Dec 11, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Helix said:
but is there a market for it, aside from you and me? my guess is that most would pick confirmation bias. i would like to think that some would prefer an unbiased source of news.

I think many of us, not just you and I, thirst for dependable reliable anythings and everythings. From cars to music players to computer to phones to, one could plausibly surmise, information.

I, personally, haven't the energy and desire to attempt forming such an entity. But with the vacuum created after this last election, with the left now in tatters and discredited along with a colluding media, we, the republic, need a source, a reliable credible source that is actually keeping an eye on my party [ that is now so dominant ] and with a guy, Trump, that is so masterful at playing the media.

There would not be that fear if the Democrats were a party that anybody were listening to any longer. But they and the media simultaneously disgraced themselves and now only die-hard lib partisans are continuing to listen to either of them, the rest have tired of their boy who cried wolf wolf too many times antics.

The problem with that is always when a wolf actually wanders onsite, the then crying of wolf, by the party and media that cried wolf wolf too often, falls on deaf ears.

Mustachio · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

It's irrelevant because nobody would watch it. It's like saying "create a grocery store that only has healthy food." Nobody would shop there because they want to eat crap. And yes, that is a metaphor.

Grim17 · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Bobbaker said:
Nonsense. Bias is an opinion ABOUT a fact, NOT a fact itself.

Personal opinion has no place in the reporting of news PERIOD. The facts contained within nearly every single news story with political implications, can be presented positively or negatively and favor one side over the other. That bias is at the center of the mainstream news media having lost credibility with the American people.

A person with bias can still have integrity. A biased person with integrity will not distort facts, nor claim a certain reported fact is valid or plausible, while it is still suspect and requires further corroboration.

I don't doubt that for a moment. In fact, I would say most of the people within the mainstream news media, even those who are heavily biased, do have integrity. Unlike some, I believe that the majority of the political bias in the news isn't planned or premeditated, but the result of the "group think" that takes place when you have news departments dominated by people who are all politically like-minded and see the world through the same political lense.

You seem to believe that as long as the facts of a story aren't distorted, that makes any bias irrelevant. Well here's a good example of how the mainstream news media can report on a story without distorting facts and at the same time be about as biased and one-sided as a story could be.

Watch the NBC report and read the op:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/bias-...ook-example-liberal-bias-nbcs-today-show.html

That is exactly why I proposed co-editors/co-news directors, so that one-sided crap like that can be eliminated.

.

Gaugingcatenate · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Mustachio said:
It's irrelevant because nobody would watch it. It's like saying "create a grocery store that only has healthy food." Nobody would shop there because they want to eat crap. And yes, that is a metaphor.

No, you wouldn't want to shop there because YOU want to eat crap. And yes, that is a metaphor, you don't want credible news, you want crap.

I see all over this site people calling crap on other folk's sources. After this last election and Brexit there truly are few that are credible to both sides with the exception of maybe CSPAN and possibly some dictionaries. In doubt is every major news organization, the polling prognosticators, and ect..at the same time, I watched CSPAN, sufficient numbers of people have purchased and/or used dictionaries.

Its not an impossible dream, just one that does not fit your particular pillow.

Baralis · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

I think another good start would be to have active reporters in the field that source all information like our media once had instead of one organization picking up a non vetted story from another *cough* news outlet and then running with it. How can we expect accuracy when they regurgitate stories that start with questionable sources and then get shuffled around bias organizations?

calamity · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
Yep, keep telling yourself that... but 30 out of 50 states went Trump. 30 out of 50 governorships are Republican, 68 out of 99 state legislatures are Republican, the White House in January will be Republican, both national houses are Republican. With one more Supreme Court pick after his first Trump will be able to have a conservative leaning SCOTUS bench. How smart does that make Democrats sound?

Btw, States aren't smart, individuals people in states are smart. How one determines true intelligence, prudence, pragmatism and common sense is, apparently, over Democrats heads.

Poverty, teen pregnancy, education, life expectancy...Red states are not winning those battles.

Mustachio · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
No, you wouldn't want to shop there because YOU want to eat crap. And yes, that is a metaphor, you don't want credible news, you want crap.

I see all over this site people calling crap on other folk's sources. After this last election and Brexit there truly are few that are credible to both sides with the exception of maybe CSPAN and possibly some dictionaries. In doubt is every major news organization, the polling prognosticators, and ect..at the same time, I watched CSPAN, sufficient numbers of people have purchased and/or used dictionaries.

Its not an impossible dream, just one that does not fit your particular pillow.

I actually eat a vegan diet. And I don't watch news on tv, except the today show for a half hour to wake me up. I watched Perry Mason until they changed its time slot which was very upsetting.

I do listen to NPR quite a bit.

Gaugingcatenate · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

calamity said:
Poverty, teen pregnancy, education, life expectancy...Red states are not winning those battles.

Talk to me in 4 years, then again in another 4 years.

Sure don't want to hear your heavily fertilized/biased views on poverty, teen pregnancy, education or life expectancy. Your side had 8 years to do something and DID pretty much absolutely nothing on any of that.

O bomb a's legacy?

Nada, at least on the positive side of the ledger. A hundred years from now he will be, without the asterisk for being the first black president, just one of those presidents that students quickly skip over as nothing of consequence, positively, was accomplished. Race relations, societal relations in general, have gone nowhere but downhill since Jan '09. The economy has stayed in the doldrums, our borders are a mess, immigration problems no where near solved in this failed presidency... all we did was lose 8 years, lives, treasure, reputation all of which needs rebuilt under a Republican president.

But this is so far off the topic, answer if you please but I will not reply to anything from you if you are not attempting to address the OP.

Ok, we are clear here.

Gaugingcatenate · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Mustachio said:
I actually eat a vegan diet. And I don't watch news on tv, except the today show for a half hour to wake me up. I watched Perry Mason until they changed its time slot which was very upsetting.

I do listen to NPR quite a bit.

I am an unrepentant/proud carnivore... but do not watch any TV except from Netflix shows and youtube highlights on issues.

I do listen a bit more than occasionally, but not consistently, to Mark Levin radio podcasts. The rest I scour the internet for and apply my readings from a ton of books on history, poly sci, science etc...

I am not looking for entertaining crap, that is not entertaining to me. I pan for the gold nuggets of the news and information.

Helix · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
I think many of us, not just you and I, thirst for dependable reliable anythings and everythings. From cars to music players to computer to phones to, one could plausibly surmise, information.

I, personally, haven't the energy and desire to attempt forming such an entity. But with the vacuum created after this last election, with the left now in tatters and discredited along with a colluding media, we, the republic, need a source, a reliable credible source that is actually keeping an eye on my party [ that is now so dominant ] and with a guy, Trump, that is so masterful at playing the media.

There would not be that fear if the Democrats were a party that anybody were listening to any longer. But they and the media simultaneously disgraced themselves and now only die-hard lib partisans are continuing to listen to either of them, the rest have tired of their boy who cried wolf wolf too many times antics.

The problem with that is always when a wolf actually wanders onsite, the then crying of wolf, by the party and media that cried wolf wolf too often, falls on deaf ears.

if there was an unbiased news source, i would watch it / read it. in the current setup, i ignore the pretend news networks like Fox and MSNBC and read several sources for each story (both US and international) in order to get balance. it works well enough. not as well as a genuinely unbiased source would, though.

Mustachio · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
I am an unrepentant/proud carnivore... but do not watch any TV except from Netflix shows and youtube highlights on issues.

I do listen a bit more than occasionally, but not consistently, to Mark Levin radio podcasts. The rest I scour the internet for and apply my readings from a ton of books on history, poly sci, science etc...

I am not looking for entertaining crap, that is not entertaining to me. I pan for the gold nuggets of the news and information.

So you watch news clips on youtube that confirm your bias and then listen to Mark Levin scream about how Democrats are evil socialists overtly trying to destroy our country? How is that anything other than a) entertainment or b) a choir member being preached to? Do you believe that all liberals hate America? If not, why are you asking for impartial news?

And then you tell me I'm eating crap when I listen to a bit of Michael Medved, NPR, I do watch CSPAN at times and really prefer local news - they're not trying to pander to an audience (well, most aren't).

Gaugingcatenate · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Helix said:
if there was an unbiased news source, i would watch it / read it. in the current setup, i ignore the pretend news networks like Fox and MSNBC and read several sources for each story (both US and international) in order to get balance. it works well enough. not as well as a genuinely unbiased source would, though.

Same here, I don't do spoon fed news from anybody... I go out and look and in a similar fashion as you have laid down.

Wikipedia is, at least for me, often a good basics place to start just to get my ducks in a row, get the feel of where else I need to be looking, what else I need to be thinking about... so its a good staging area. I wish there were a site as I describe with the outlines, the just the facts m'am as they are known, nothing there not truly nailed down/verified... and then an area of the site where I could access smart minds from differing perspectives that might lead me in directions I, myself a fairly creative and resourceful sort, might never have thought of in my wildest dreams.

It was like when I was teaching and I would have the class research both sides of a topic, then they would choose a side and we would then debate it in class. I tried to keep it just between the kids, hell, I already felt I knew the topics up and down, had done them so many times before... yet it was always interesting, was constantly amazed at how many times completely new ideas would surface that I had never thought of... and these from supposed amateurs.

Debate sites are good for opposing sides, sometimes rather cleverly done, running the gamut from nicely worded to the truly atrocious, the agile with potential holes pre-thought and pre-filled as best as possible, its one of the reasons I come here to the site...oftentimes gives me a pretty damn good idea about topics of interest going on out there in the world.

Helix · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
Same here, I don't do spoon fed news from anybody... I go out and look and in a similar fashion as you have laid down.

Wikipedia is, at least for me, often a good basics place to start just to get my ducks in a row, get the feel of where else I need to be looking, what else I need to be thinking about... so its a good staging area. I wish there were a site as I describe with the outlines, the just the facts m'am as they are known, nothing there not truly nailed down/verified... and then an area of the site where I could access smart minds from differing perspectives that might lead me in directions I, myself a fairly creative and resourceful sort, might never have thought of in my wildest dreams.

It was like when I was teaching and I would have the class research both sides of a topic, then they would choose a side and we would then debate it in class. I tried to keep it just between the kids, hell, I already felt I knew the topics up and down, had done them so many times before... yet it was always interesting, was constantly amazed at how many times completely new ideas would surface that I had never thought of... and these from supposed amateurs.

Debate sites are good for opposing sides, sometimes rather cleverly done, running the gamut from nicely worded to the truly atrocious, the agile with potential holes pre-thought and pre-filled as best as possible, its one of the reasons I come here to the site...oftentimes gives me a pretty damn good idea about topics of interest going on out there in the world.

yep. i agree.

calamity · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
Talk to me in 4 years, then again in another 4 years.

Sure don't want to hear your heavily fertilized/biased views on poverty, teen pregnancy, education or life expectancy. Your side had 8 years to do something and DID pretty much absolutely nothing on any of that.

O bomb a's legacy?

Nada, at least on the positive side of the ledger. A hundred years from now he will be, without the asterisk for being the first black president, just one of those presidents that students quickly skip over as nothing of consequence, positively, was accomplished. Race relations, societal relations in general, have gone nowhere but downhill since Jan '09. The economy has stayed in the doldrums, our borders are a mess, immigration problems no where near solved in this failed presidency... all we did was lose 8 years, lives, treasure, reputation all of which needs rebuilt under a Republican president.

But this is so far off the topic, answer if you please but I will not reply to anything from you if you are not attempting to address the OP.

Ok, we are clear here.

People with IQ of 130-150 are by definition a minority. So, do the math. Smart people are vastly outnumbered by those who are of average or very low intellect. It's just a fact of life.

Grim17 · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
Same here, I don't do spoon fed news from anybody... I go out and look and in a similar fashion as you have laid down.

Wikipedia is, at least for me, often a good basics place to start just to get my ducks in a row, get the feel of where else I need to be looking, what else I need to be thinking about... so its a good staging area. I wish there were a site as I describe with the outlines, the just the facts m'am as they are known, nothing there not truly nailed down/verified... and then an area of the site where I could access smart minds from differing perspectives that might lead me in directions I, myself a fairly creative and resourceful sort, might never have thought of in my wildest dreams.

It was like when I was teaching and I would have the class research both sides of a topic, then they would choose a side and we would then debate it in class. I tried to keep it just between the kids, hell, I already felt I knew the topics up and down, had done them so many times before... yet it was always interesting, was constantly amazed at how many times completely new ideas would surface that I had never thought of... and these from supposed amateurs.

Debate sites are good for opposing sides, sometimes rather cleverly done, running the gamut from nicely worded to the truly atrocious, the agile with potential holes pre-thought and pre-filled as best as possible, its one of the reasons I come here to the site...oftentimes gives me a pretty damn good idea about topics of interest going on out there in the world.

So what did you think of my suggestion on how to create a credible, unbiased news outlet?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/bias-...d-analysis-post1066641767.html#post1066641767

Gaugingcatenate · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Mustachio said:
So you watch news clips on youtube that confirm your bias and then listen to Mark Levin scream about how Democrats are evil socialists overtly trying to destroy our country? How is that anything other than a) entertainment or b) a choir member being preached to? Do you believe that all liberals hate America? If not, why are you asking for impartial news?

And then you tell me I'm eating crap when I listen to a bit of Michael Medved, NPR, I do watch CSPAN at times and really prefer local news - they're not trying to pander to an audience (well, most aren't).

Its not polite to project your inadequacies onto others, yanno?

I look at a lot of differing youtube videos from a wide variety of sites. I also come here to listen and debate with people like you, that differ vastly from my point of view. In fact, I am more in contact with your side of the aisle as I generally am not debating with my own side. I do read the threads in their entirety if I have the time and learn loads.

Now on the other hand if you had read this thread, for instance, you would know I am not calling for the impartial views, I am calling for many views to be represented in one section of a site and another section with just the basic facts known and verified, without weasel word descriptions leaning one way or another. But, if interested you can read the thread and get not just my ideas, but others, all partial to their own ideas one would assume.

Mark Levin has a keen legal and constitutional mind. I believe, as does he, that the founders came up with a pretty good document that we have ruined by trying to improve upon it. So, after years of study, readings and writing myself, I stumbled upon someone that thinks like I do and is able to teach me a few things.

I have listened to NPR, some of it is fine, some gets into detail, but is often anecdotal and pulls the personal, puppet like strings those and warm fuzzies, too much for my tastes. Maybe I overstepped a bit, but I am pretty sure I recollect properly in saying that you implied nobody would frequent anything BUT an entertaining site, you likened it to healthy food and everybody wants to eat junk... crap you called it.

So, you led me down the crap eaters path, you made that crap sandwich, so I figured you liked eating crap sandwiches. Maybe should think prior to post, make sure of your actual position before stepping in the crap sandwich of your own making next time?

Gaugingcatenate · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

calamity said:
People with IQ of 130-150 are by definition a minority. So, do the math. Smart people are vastly outnumbered by those who are of average or very low intellect. It's just a fact of life.

Hmmm, wonder what the IQ would have to be for one to stay on the topic of the OP, especially after being warned?

Inquiring minds want to know... at the same time, if its off the OP, never mind.

calamity · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
Hmmm, wonder what the IQ would have to be for one to stay on the topic of the OP, especially after being warned?

Inquiring minds want to know... at the same time, if its off the OP, never mind.

That's kind of my point. People willing to listen to real news, something that challenges their preconceived notions and requires analysis and thought are a tiny minority. That's why NPR has such low ratings and Rush Limbaugh draws 40 million listeners.

Gaugingcatenate · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Grim17 said:
For TV news, instead of one news director calling the shots, you have co-news directors who balance the content. One that leans to the left, like say Andrea Mitchell, and one who leans right, like say Brit hume. They each find the points that are positive toward their side of the spectrum and depending on the story, make sure they can strike a reasonable balance of how it will be presented. Each will be able to check the other to make sure political opinion doesn't find it's way into the story.

That would be in my opinion, be a good start.

.

I like the concept, especially if it were a broadcast medium. Additionally, I have always thought this is exactly how true documentary films should be made so that it is not one sided and therefore boring one dimension that as soon as I turn it on it quickly turns me off.

I like the idea of point/counter point as long as both sides truly had talented and strong minded people representing. Finding two equally opposing and strong is tall order, but it would be a good goal. Agreed, Brit Hume would be fantastic for the right, in my opinion. Actually the only lefties I consider near his scale of calm, cool, collected gravitas and intellect might be an Anderson Cooper or a Blitzer. Though, to my mind, they don't match up. Cronkite or some of the past anchors maybe would have. I don't watch anything but youtube clips now, since 2004, and most the others on the left are just too in the tank, too erratic or just not knowledgeable enough seems to me. I do not have a high opinion of Mitchell.

I would say if the show were an hour long it would be interesting to give each side 15 minute independent segments, maybe alternating who goes first each day, in which to comment and report on whatever they felt was important, maybe then 5 minutes each on a prepackaged segment, again on anything they felt was important or maybe both sides at times given an assignment on a specific topic [egs, How to view Snownden, WikiLeaks importance, current status of the war on ISIS] and then the remaining where they are commenting/debating each other, equal time, on the topics of the segments they did that day.

Broadcast would have to be semi entertaining it seems to me. But if done in a format with at least the two major opposing views equally represented, I would give that a shot and watch [ on youtube, remembering I do not have tv down here ].

However, for a true gold standard I think its would be easier to do so in a written, printed or online form.

Gaugingcatenate · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

calamity said:
That's kind of my point. People willing to listen to real news, something that challenges their preconceived notions and requires analysis and thought are a tiny minority. That's why NPR has such low ratings and Rush Limbaugh draws 40 million listeners.

That is better at least.

But you see, NPR oftentimes isn't real news. If news were a tree, they might pan out showing a whole tree, but only one maybe two types, then take a microscope to one of its leaves. Missing are the roots, the bark, the trunk, the fruit, the idea of canopy, of shade, etc...

Since it is government and patron sponsored, it doesn't have to be near as entertaining as Rush, either.

Grim17 · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Gaugingcatenate said:
I like the concept, especially if it were a broadcast medium. Additionally, I have always thought this is exactly how true documentary films should be made so that it is not one sided and therefore boring one dimension that as soon as I turn it on it quickly turns me off.

I like the idea of point/counter point as long as both sides truly had talented and strong minded people representing. Finding two equally opposing and strong is tall order, but it would be a good goal. Agreed, Brit Hume would be fantastic for the right, in my opinion. Actually the only lefties I consider near his scale of calm, cool, collected gravitas and intellect might be an Anderson Cooper or a Blitzer. Though, to my mind, they don't match up. Cronkite or some of the past anchors maybe would have. I don't watch anything but youtube clips now, since 2004, and most the others on the left are just too in the tank, too erratic or just not knowledgeable enough seems to me. I do not have a high opinion of Mitchell.

I would say if the show were an hour long it would be interesting to give each side 15 minute independent segments, maybe alternating who goes first each day, in which to comment and report on whatever they felt was important, maybe then 5 minutes each on a prepackaged segment, again on anything they felt was important or maybe both sides at times given an assignment on a specific topic [egs, How to view Snownden, WikiLeaks importance, current status of the war on ISIS] and then the remaining where they are commenting/debating each other, equal time, on the topics of the segments they did that day.

Broadcast would have to be semi entertaining it seems to me. But if done in a format with at least the two major opposing views equally represented, I would give that a shot and watch [ on youtube, remembering I do not have tv down here ].

However, for a true gold standard I think its would be easier to do so in a written, printed or online form.

I almost said Blitzer rather than Mitchell... I just think that 2 people representing both sides of the political spectrum like that, who reviewed the stories before their aired, would make for balanced and fair news coverage... ie, news you could trust in.

It would prevent reports like this from ever being aired in such a biased, one sided fashion.

Gaugingcatenate · Dec 12, 2016

Re: Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of anal

Grim17 said:
I almost said Blitzer rather than Mitchell... I just think that 2 people representing both sides of the political spectrum like that, who reviewed the stories before their aired, would make for balanced and fair news coverage... ie, news you could trust in.

It would prevent reports like this from ever being aired in such a biased, one sided fashion.

I agree, and have seen your very thorough run down on this in another thread. The republic really needs, deserves both sides eyeing each other like eagles, American eagles, to keep both sides honest.

I obviously believe in the right way, pun intended, to think and do, but am also well aware that we are all, from left right and center, are just human and most do not do bad if they know someone is/might well be watching. That is how it always should be, do not commit crimes and say you are representing me. So I want a very vigilant but honest and credible news service to provide us exactly what we need in a democratic republic, ample and truthful information.

Thought Experiment--creating a News site striving to be the gold standard of analysis

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