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Hell is Real. John Bosco's Dream

Elvira said:
Suffering forever? Uh no...
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OK. I see your position. But I just don't know how you can read Jesus' word about eternal suffering anything but literally.
 
Mashmont said:
OK. I see your position. But I just don't know how you can read Jesus' word about eternal suffering anything but literally.
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Do you also take this scripture literally? How can death and the grave literally burn forever? How can they burn at all? They can't...they will both be destroyed...that is the second death...eternal destruction...

And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14
 
Elvira said:
Do you also take this scripture literally? How can death and the grave literally burn forever? How can they burn at all? They can't...they will both be destroyed...that is the second death...eternal destruction...

And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14
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"Unquenchable fire".
 
Elvira said:
Do you also take this scripture literally? How can death and the grave literally burn forever? How can they burn at all? They can't...they will both be destroyed...that is the second death...eternal destruction...

And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14
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The grave is also known as Hades.


There is more to that verse:


Revelations 20
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.



It is supported by these:

Rev 21
8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”


Rev 2
11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’





How can death and the grave literally burn forever? How can they burn at all?
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They're not meant to be places. They are depicted as people or demons or angels, or something else.


Revelations 6
7 When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!”
8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him.
They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
 
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Somebody had a dream, therefore, hell exists? That is not logical, Captain.
 
tosca1 said:
The grave is also known as Hades.


There is more to that verse:


Revelations 20
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.



It is supported by these:

Rev 21
8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”


Rev 2
11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’







They're not meant to be places. They are depicted as people or demons or angels, or something else.


Revelations 6
7 When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!”
8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him.
They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
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What happens to death and the grave when they are thrown into the lake of fire? No one seems to wanna answer that question...
 
Elvira said:
What happens to death and the grave when they are thrown into the lake of fire? No one seems to wanna answer that question...
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The bible has said there is suffering in hell. There is just no way to sugarcoat that.
 
Mashmont said:
I already answered. The fire burns eternally yet does not consume.
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So, how do the grave and death, not being tangible things, literally burn?
 
Elvira said:
So, how do the grave and death, not being tangible things, literally burn?
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You're viewing non-earthly realms through an earthly lens. There is no time or space. Nothing is as we know it.
 
Mashmont said:
You're viewing non-earthly realms through an earthly lens. There is no time or space. Nothing is as we know it.
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And yet, Jesus spoke in terms so we, as humans, could understand...like comparing death/non-existence to being thrown into a fire...symbolizing complete and utter destruction, just like death and the grave will be completely and utterly destroyed...we know anything thrown into a fire is gone forever...disintegrated...
 
Elvira said:
What happens to death and the grave when they are thrown into the lake of fire? No one seems to wanna answer that question...
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They get the eternal death. - which is the second death.


As opposed to physical death (which is a one-time experience), eternal death is everlasting - experienced on a continual basis throughout eternity.

The "death" of the second death isn't anything like physical death in the sense that physical life goes once your vital signs shut down, and with that you're indeed dead and free of pain/consciousness etc.,
Those who don't believe in eternal punishment compare the second death with the physical death. As shown by numerous passages in the Scriptures, second death is not comparable with physical death in any way. Although it is called "death," it is entirely different.



The Bible teaches the doctrine of eternal death.



Daniel 12
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


Revelation 20
10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were,
and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


Matthew 25
46 And [the wicked] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.




All three of these passages (and more could have been added) have as their main context the scene of final judgment.
In other words, when Christ returns, three things will occur:
1) The general resurrection of “the living and the dead”;
2) the final judgment; and
3) the inauguration of the eternal state.
Each of these passages demonstrates that during the final judgment of all people, Jesus will separate the righteous from the wicked.
The righteous will be ushered into the final state of glory, while the wicked will be sent to the lake of fire for eternal punishment and torment.

Note too (particularly in the Daniel and Matthew passages) that the same adjective (“everlasting” or “eternal”) is used to modify
both “life” and “punishment/contempt.”
What is true about one (life) must be true about the other (punishment), that both are eternal and last forever.
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What is eternal death? | GotQuestions.org
 
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tosca1 said:
They get the eternal death. - which is the second death.


As opposed to physical death (which is a one-time experience), eternal death is everlasting - experienced on a continual basis throughout eternity.

The "death" of the second death isn't anything like physical death in the sense that physical life goes once your vital signs shut down, and with that you're indeed dead and free of pain/consciousness etc.,
Those who don't believe in eternal punishment compare the second death with the physical death. As shown by numerous passages in the Scriptures, second death is not comparable with physical death in any way. Although it is called "death," it is entirely different.



The Bible teaches the doctrine of eternal death.



Daniel 12
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


Revelation 20
10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were,
and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


Matthew 25
46 And [the wicked] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.





What is eternal death? | GotQuestions.org
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in other words, they are destroyed, just like the humans who go there...
 
Elvira said:
in other words, they are destroyed, just like the humans who go there...
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No, not destroyed.
To use the term "destroyed" would mean there is an end, and that there will be no continuous process.


The second death is a continuous and NEVER-ENDING punishment.


they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


It has no end! That's what forever and ever means.
And being TORMENTED - means, they will definitely feel it! There'll be no breaktime, either.



That is quite an explicit description which when combined with all the many verses that talk explicitly about an eternal punishment,
can only be taken LITERALLY!
 
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tosca1 said:
No, not destroyed. To use the term "destroyed" would mean there is an end. That there will be no continuous process.

The second death is a continuous and NEVER-ENDING punishment.


they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.



That is quite an explicit description which when combined with all the many verses that talks explicitly about an eternal punishment,
can only be taken LITERALLY!
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How do you punish the grave/hell and death with fire?
 
Elvira said:
How do you punish the grave/hell and death with fire?
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How does grave/hades and death ride horses?


Revelations 6

8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him.
They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.


The Four Horsemen of the apocalypse (first 4 of the 7 seals), are symbolical appearances of God's judgement (horse and rider bringing devastation).

Throwing them into the lake of fire would be a symbolism that means there would be no more death (physical death).
 
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tosca1 said:
How does grave/hades and death ride horses?


Revelations 6

8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him.
They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
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Symbolically, that's how...just as fire is symbolic of complete/never-ending destruction...;)
 
Elvira said:
Symbolically, that's how...just as fire is symbolic of complete/never-ending destruction...;)
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No. What is symbolic is the usage of horse and rider bringing destruction on earth.



Revelation 6
2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

4 Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword.

When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. 6 Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds of wheat for a day’s wages, and six pounds of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!”

7 When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” 8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
 
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