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Atheists, lets get real

TypicalRussian said:
agnosticism is not true, there is objective truths for God
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No there aren't and you can't provide any. There is no objective evidence for any deity presented so far, particularly no evidence for a specific deity. If there were, it would be huge news.

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roguenuke said:
No there aren't and you can't provide any. There is no objective evidence for any deity presented so far, particularly no evidence for a specific deity. If there were, it would be huge news.

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i know its hard to prove things in religion and philoshpily, but answers are there
 
TypicalRussian said:
blarg please listen, a MGB can not be evil
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maybe because it doesn't exist but otherwise sure it can evil is what you dont like so anything is evil if you dislike its actions enough
 
TypicalRussian said:
blarg please listen, a MGB can not be evil
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what is that possible maximum? some things you conceive may not be possible and or realized

so what you have for 2 may follow 1 and now you have to prove all possible worlds exist and the many worlds multiverse has not been proven and still their may be things you can conceive of that are not real

so what you have for 3 may not follow and if the maximum possible in not omnipresent across a multiverse that exposes all possibility then their must be worlds that dont have it present

so what you have for 4 may not follow

and what you have for 5 may not follow

and so 6 may not follow

it might be simple but it all so might be incorrect

omniscience may not be possible or may not be realized likewise for omnipotence and morality is subjective by its nature because what you desire is the root of it take that away and anything can fit into the categories of good or bad which would then lack any coherent meaning

worth is not intrinsic other then certain mental states will produce them for a mind you have not shown souls to exist

so we still dont know what traits an mgb could have omnipresence across all existence may lie outside of what is possible all so its coherent for something not to be some place so in your multiverse their must be worlds that lack whatever is maximally possible in other worlds

and your diving back into the subjective it depends how you or any one else feels about those worlds if someone being in each one of them is better for that being or not.

and side note if we have a many worlds multiverse are world is 1 actual world but all other possibility's and their worlds are all so actual worlds maybe we should say are world instead

the problem with this 2nd list starting with this 1 is god still seems like its contingent at best we know horns and horses can exist and that a horse like horned animal doesn't violate natural laws we are aware of we dont know that about being omnipresent and omnipotent and all knowing so a god is more dubious then a unicorn

and as for 2 god as you describe it seems like it could be impossible you cant know if theirs stuff you dont know. you cant be every where in all possible configurations of reality because theirs no contradiction in a place where you are not . and you cant be all powerful across every possible state of reality because their must be states where any change you make some place else dosent happen and you cant actually change anything because every possible state of being already exists the nature of each world is locked in place and unalterable

so as for 3 god doesn't seem to be necessary

so what is maximally great ( possible) doesn't seem to include your idea of a god if we throw in your multiverse it seems to be impossible in fact

the closet you can get to it would be to make your god existence itself but that would be the same as the atheist idea of no god it would be all powerful because it would include all possible power ( which would be an ilusion as ther would be no change or alteration just different spots in a multiverse expressing all possibility's at once) but it would not be omnipotent it could not get rid of some worlds for example or reshape them all to be a certain way.
and it would include all impotence all possible states must exist and can not change

it would contain all possible knowledge because it would contain all possible mental states but it would not be all knowing and it would contain all ignorance as well

part of it would be sentient ( me you every other mind that exists across the multiverse) parts of it would not be

and again good is subjective the multiverse as god would contain all subjective good and all subjective evil and all things minds could be indifferent to
 
blarg said:
what is that possible maximum? some things you conceive may not be possible and or realized

so what you have for 2 may follow 1 and now you have to prove all possible worlds exist and the many worlds multiverse has not been proven and still their may be things you can conceive of that are not real

so what you have for 3 may not follow and if the maximum possible in not omnipresent across a multiverse that exposes all possibility then their must be worlds that dont have it present

so what you have for 4 may not follow

and what you have for 5 may not follow

and so 6 may not follow

it might be simple but it all so might be incorrect

omniscience may not be possible or may not be realized likewise for omnipotence and morality is subjective by its nature because what you desire is the root of it take that away and anything can fit into the categories of good or bad which would then lack any coherent meaning

worth is not intrinsic other then certain mental states will produce them for a mind you have not shown souls to exist

so we still dont know what traits an mgb could have omnipresence across all existence may lie outside of what is possible all so its coherent for something not to be some place so in your multiverse their must be worlds that lack whatever is maximally possible in other worlds

and your diving back into the subjective it depends how you or any one else feels about those worlds if someone being in each one of them is better for that being or not.

and side note if we have a many worlds multiverse are world is 1 actual world but all other possibility's and their worlds are all so actual worlds maybe we should say are world instead

the problem with this 2nd list starting with this 1 is god still seems like its contingent at best we know horns and horses can exist and that a horse like horned animal doesn't violate natural laws we are aware of we dont know that about being omnipresent and omnipotent and all knowing so a god is more dubious then a unicorn

and as for 2 god as you describe it seems like it could be impossible you cant know if theirs stuff you dont know. you cant be every where in all possible configurations of reality because theirs no contradiction in a place where you are not . and you cant be all powerful across every possible state of reality because their must be states where any change you make some place else dosent happen and you cant actually change anything because every possible state of being already exists the nature of each world is locked in place and unalterable

so as for 3 god doesn't seem to be necessary

so what is maximally great ( possible) doesn't seem to include your idea of a god if we throw in your multiverse it seems to be impossible in fact

the closet you can get to it would be to make your god existence itself but that would be the same as the atheist idea of no god it would be all powerful because it would include all possible power ( which would be an ilusion as ther would be no change or alteration just different spots in a multiverse expressing all possibility's at once) but it would not be omnipotent it could not get rid of some worlds for example or reshape them all to be a certain way.
and it would include all impotence all possible states must exist and can not change

it would contain all possible knowledge because it would contain all possible mental states but it would not be all knowing and it would contain all ignorance as well

part of it would be sentient ( me you every other mind that exists across the multiverse) parts of it would not be

and again good is subjective the multiverse as god would contain all subjective good and all subjective evil and all things minds could be indifferent to
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already refuted...
 
blarg said:
maybe because it doesn't exist but otherwise sure it can evil is what you dont like so anything is evil if you dislike its actions enough
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oh it does exist(ontological logic)
 
TypicalRussian said:
no he cant philosiphcally, god can only be MAXIMALLY GOOD
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No, in philosophy and critical thinking, that's what's known as 'utter bull****'.

There is no substantive argument that can be made, in terms of the god of the bible, that the divine being depicted in it is 'MAXIMALLY GOOD'. It's FAR more evil than otherwise.

Have you ever actually bothered to read the bible?
 
TypicalRussian said:
Lets assume at some point you were a Christian,Muslim, or Jew

Why did you switch to atheism?

Be Honest, hence why I said lets get real, no more stupid questioning, no more debating or dancing around, explain to ME why you are an atheist

I am nit trying to convert you either, all I want is for you to explain your position
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I, like everyone, was born an atheist. Theism is an acquired belief.

I've remained an atheist as I've never been CONvinced there is any substantial evidence to support a belief in imaginary creatures other than what you allow your mind to believe.
 
Individual said:
I, like everyone, was born an atheist. Theism is an acquired belief.

I've remained an atheist as I've never been CONvinced there is any substantial evidence to support a belief in imaginary creatures other than what you allow your mind to believe.
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Same here, I didn't switch to atheism. When I was told the story of Jesus in Sunday school I didn't believe a word of it.
 
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