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Marian Doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church

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tosca1

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Marian doctrines, also known as Catholic Mariology, is the Catholic theological study of Mary (mother of Jesus), and her role to salvation.


The four main doctrines are:

Mother of God
Immaculate Conception of Mary
Perpetual Virginity
Assumption of Mary into Heaven



Other Marian doctrines:

Queen of Heaven
Mother of All Christians
Mediatrix – mediator between God and man





The purpose of this thread is to show that Marian Doctrines are not supported by the Bible. In fact, most, if not all of them, are a contradiction to the Word of God.
 
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1. Mother of God

Mary was the mother of the human, Jesus.
Yes, we know that Jesus and God are One and the same, however, God had wanted for us to believe that Jesus (God as human), was His Son. That is the difference.

Thus, you don't say she is the Mother of God (though we know that Jesus is God Himself).
We say, she is the mother of Jesus.




Think about it:

To make Mary the Mother of God, would put God Himself under the authority of His own creation (human Mary) – after all, wasn't honor to, and obedience to parents among the commands of God? That would make Mary become have a more esteemed position above God Himself,
if she is given the role of "Mother of God."

No one created God. God cannot have a mother.



Furthermore -

even Jesus Christ, speaking as the Son of God, did not place Mary above all others.


Matthew 12
Jesus’ Mother and Brothers
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him.
47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”
48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?”
49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”



Essentially as Son of God/Messiah, He makes no distinction of that human relationship (Mother and Son) - that He was borne of Mary.



Think for a moment: why would Jesus say that to the crowd?


47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

The timing of Jesus' statement – that which preceedes that response from Jesus – must be included in the context.
It IS crucial to the context!
 
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2. Immaculate Conception


Immaculate Conception does not refer to the conception of Jesus Christ.
It is a doctrine by the Roman Catholic Church which refers to the conception of Mary.
Not to be confused that she was borne of a virgin birth – no. She was conceived like everybody else – the normal way – but the RCC teaches that she was immune from the inherited or imputed sin.
If that's the case, I suppose the Saviour needed her more than she needed Him. In fact, that would make her the only human who never needed a Saviour!

Is there anyone mentioned at all in the Scriptures, who has no need for a Saviour?

The official doctrine says:
“The blessed Virgin Mary to have been, from the first instant of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of Almighty God, in view of the merits of Christ Jesus the Savior of Mankind, preserved free from all stain of original sin” (Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus, December 1854).

In other words, that means Mary was protected from original sin (no sin nature), and was sinless.

The RCC cites Luke 1 to support their interpretation:

Luke 1
28*The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”
29*Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30*But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31*You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32*He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33*and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”


Of course, one who is to carry and give birth to the Messiah (God as human), would be described as HIGHLY-favored if we make comparisons with others who had found favor in the eyes of God! Like Elizabeth, as an example – the mother of John the Baptist.

Luke 1
25“The Lord has done this for me,” she said. “In these days he has shown his favor and taken away my disgrace among the people.”



But to have been HIGHLY-favored, does not automatically mean she was sinless – as explained, because that would've meant she never needed a Saviour to begin with!




Think about it:

If such a person with that kind of distinction among the rest of mankind – the only one who had ever existed - the only one who never needed any Saviour - wouldn't that be written, or at least mentioned at all in the Bible?











3. Mary's Perpetual Virginity



This is a no-brainer! Mary and Joseph had several children together! That fact is supported several times in the Scriptures!
But why does the RCC say that?
Because the RCC wants to give her an exalted position in heaven – having the closest access to Jesus and God.

Mind you - even if she has the exalted position in Heaven (for giving earthly birth to God), why does she have to be presented as a “perpetual virgin,”
which clearly she was not! Having had sex with Joseph does not make her tainted. There's no sin in sex within a marriage!
 
4. Assumption of Mary into Heaven




This doctrine began around the 6th century in the Byzantine Empire, as an annual feast commemorating Mary.
This feast gradually grew into commemoration of her death (Feast of Dormition- “falling asleep”). As this traditional practice spread to the west, Mary’s resurrection and the glorification of Mary’s body as well as her soul became the emphasis for this commemoration. The name for it became the Assumption (still celebrated on Aug 15, as it was in the Middle Ages). The doctrine also says apostles witnessed her assumption.

Since there is precedence with people getting “assumed” into heaven (Enoch and Elijah), it is not impossible for Mary to have been taken into heaven as well. HOWEVER, unlike what had been written about Enoch and Elijah, there is no absolute Biblical basis for the assumption of Mary!


There is no mention of Mary at all, after ACTS 1.

If there is anyone who should've written of such historical event, it would be expected of John – the youngest of the apostles - to whom Jesus entrusted Mary! But despite having been allegedly witnessed by apostles, no books from any of the apostles, mention this supposedly awesome event!
 
tosca1 said:
Marian doctrines, also known as Catholic Mariology, is the Catholic theological study of Mary (mother of Jesus), and her role to salvation.


The four main doctrines are:

Mother of God
Immaculate Conception of Mary
Perpetual Virginity
Assumption of Mary into Heaven



Other Marian doctrines:

Queen of Heaven
Mother of All Christians
Mediatrix – mediator between God and man





The purpose of this thread is to show that Marian Doctrines are not supported by the Bible. In fact, most, if not all of them, are a contradiction to the Word of God.
Click to expand...



The four “main” doctrines are actually dogmas, as opposed to doctrines having been divinely revealed. Mary is the only human to have been brought to Heaven while still alive, that I know of. All doctrines are justified in the Catholic Church by interpretation of sacred scripture, theological reasoning, writings of saints, Church tradition and papal statements (Papal infallibility. There's your word of God). Nothing like the fail-safe of papal infallibility. Anyway, Anglican, Orthodox, Luther and Calvin also have/had their takes on the Marian Doctrines, all at least a bit positive.
 
My rule of thumb...if a Christian is not directed in the Bible to do something, when it comes to our worship, don't do it...if it is vital to our worship, God would have given direction for it...
 
bluesmoke said:
Mary is the only human to have been brought to Heaven while still alive,
Click to expand...


Let's assume that indeed, that's true...................... I'm afraid it's still a "lose-lose" situation for the RCC!


The RCC is still defying the Commandment of God (which just reminded me by responding to 2distracted's thread about Scriptures of the day).




This part:

Exodus 20

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above


5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them;



If Mary is upstairs - there shouldn't be a single image of her, not only the existence of her image but much more when it is
something that is bowed down to.................. and much, much worse - performing the act of worship on them.
 
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tosca1 said:
The purpose of this thread is to show that Marian Doctrines are not supported by the Bible. In fact, most, if not all of them, are a contradiction to the Word of God.
Click to expand...


*yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn*
 
You see how it started off innocently in the 6th century - just a simple commemoration to Mary.
Look how it progressed over the centuries to where it is now today! How false doctrines had been added one on top of the other over MARY!


Now, there is a movement that wants to declare her as......................... CO-REDEMPTOR!

That's what MEDIATRIX means.



The Trinity becomes a QUARTET! :mrgreen:



Within Catholicism, there is a drive to define a new Marian dogma in which Catholics, as a matter of faith, would be obliged to accept these three doctrines:
(1) Mary participates in redemption with Jesus Christ,
(2) grace is granted by Jesus only through the intercession of Mary, and
(3) all prayers from the faithful must flow through Mary, who brings them to the attention of her Son.

This movement would, in practice, redefine the Trinity as a kind of Quartet.
Click to expand...
Is Mary the co-redemptrix / mediatrix? | GotQuestions.org




This is Marialatry!
 
tosca1 said:
You see how it started off innocently in the 6th century - just a simple commemoration to Mary. Look how it progressed over the centuries to where it is now today! How false doctrines had been added one on top of the other over MARY!


Now, there is a movement that wants to declare her as......................... CO-REDEMPTOR!

That's what MEDIATRIX means.



The Trinity becomes a QUARTET! :mrgreen:




Is Mary the co-redemptrix / mediatrix? | GotQuestions.org
Click to expand...

Yes yes, we know all that!
And that all Catholics will go to hell etc etc ...
Are you satisfied now?

:)
 
Rumpel said:
Do not forget good old Ezechiel and his chariot of fire!
Click to expand...

What about him?

On 2nd thought, i know where you're going with this...1st of all, it wasn't Ezekiel but Elijah you're thinking of and he did not go to heaven nor did he die at that time of his ascension...he continued to live for a number of years after his heavenly transportation away from his successor Elisha...nor did Elijah upon death ascend to the spiritual heavens, since Jesus, while on earth, clearly stated that “no man has ascended into heaven"...John 3:13...
 
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Rumpel said:
Yes yes, we know all that!
And that all Catholics will go to hell etc etc ...
Click to expand...


It's not for me to say who exactly goes to hell.
But Christ has given pretty much straight-to-the-point-no-bs-finger-pointing declaration(s) as to what people will not enter Heaven!
All I can do is point it out.
After all, that's what the Bible is for: for study, reference, reproof, etc.,


Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father
who is in heaven.






Are you satisfied now?

:)
Click to expand...
:shock:

Duh?

Do I look anywhere near satisfied?

Why am I wasting my time posting all these - trying to show you the trap you've fallen into?
As they say - it's not over till the fat lady sings. There is still time to get out of it and adhere to the Biblical teachings!
 
I know, it's a big decision to just suddenly throw out your upbringing (following the Catholic doctrine).


Ask yourself: why do you want Christianity?
Is it for the pomp and eye-candy?
Tradition of men?
Is it for the romantic solemnity of rituals? If that's all you need out of it, then you're okay where you are.


BUT - if you want the promise of Christ - the promise of inheritance by our Father - then, you have to make that big leap out of that frying pan!
It's something that must be done.


Doing that - IT WON'T BE AN AFFRONT TO MARY. If Mary were alive with us - she'll be hugging you in approval!



Didn't she teach obedience? Of course, she did!


John 2

5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”


Therefore, do as she advised: follow the teachings of Christ!



Marian Doctrines are what would be an affront to her - trying to use her to make people defy the teachings of God.



You have to do it COLD TURKEY!
Throw out all images and statues, rosaries, or medals or scapulars....etc., Bury them if you must - but don't give them to anyone.
Don't look back!


Keep your eyes on GOD! He's all you'll ever need!
 
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bluesmoke said:
The four “main” doctrines are actually dogmas, as opposed to doctrines having been divinely revealed. Mary is the only human to have been brought to Heaven while still alive, that I know of. All doctrines are justified in the Catholic Church by interpretation of sacred scripture, theological reasoning, writings of saints, Church tradition and papal statements (Papal infallibility. There's your word of God). Nothing like the fail-safe of papal infallibility. Anyway, Anglican, Orthodox, Luther and Calvin also have/had their takes on the Marian Doctrines, all at least a bit positive.
Click to expand...

The pope is as human as you and I!

Being a pope does not make him infallible nor does it make him immune to the deceptions of Satan, and he can be a stumbling block too - after all, if your succession of popes had started with Peter - then, you ought to know that I speak the truth, and I have the biblical facts to prove it!


How many times had Jesus corrected Peter with his mistakes? And clearly, popes can succumb to satan.


Matthew 16

23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me;

you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”
 
tosca1 said:
Was Mary riding on it?
Click to expand...

No, proably it was the Whore of Babylon together with the Pope and all those Catholics on their way to hell - where they all belong to - if pious Bible Christians are to be believed.
 
Rumpel said:
No, proably it was the Whore of Babylon together with the Pope and all those Catholics on their way to hell - where they all belong to - if pious Bible Christians are to be believed.
Click to expand...

Well, one thing's for sure...you sure don't know your Bible...
 
tosca1 said:
1. Mother of God

Mary was the mother of the human, Jesus.
Yes, we know that Jesus and God are One and the same, however, God had wanted for us to believe that Jesus (God as human), was His Son. That is the difference.

Thus, you don't say she is the Mother of God (though we know that Jesus is God Himself).
We say, she is the mother of Jesus.




Think about it:

To make Mary the Mother of God, would put God Himself under the authority of His own creation (human Mary) – after all, wasn't honor to, and obedience to parents among the commands of God? That would make Mary become have a more esteemed position above God Himself,
if she is given the role of "Mother of God."

No one created God. God cannot have a mother.



Furthermore -

even Jesus Christ, speaking as the Son of God, did not place Mary above all others.


Matthew 12
Jesus’ Mother and Brothers
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him.
47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”
48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?”
49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”



Essentially as Son of God/Messiah, He makes no distinction of that human relationship (Mother and Son) - that He was borne of Mary.



Think for a moment: why would Jesus say that to the crowd?


47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

The timing of Jesus' statement – that which preceedes that response from Jesus – must be included in the context.
It IS crucial to the context!
Click to expand...

From the Athanasian Creed:
He is God, begotten before all worlds from the being of the Father,
and he is man, born in the world from the being of his mother,
existing fully as God, and fully as man with a rational soul and a human body;
equal to the Father in divinity, subordinate to the Father in humanity.

The dual nature of the Son is what you call a mystery.
 
tosca1 said:
2. Immaculate Conception


Immaculate Conception does not refer to the conception of Jesus Christ.
It is a doctrine by the Roman Catholic Church which refers to the conception of Mary.
Not to be confused that she was borne of a virgin birth – no. She was conceived like everybody else – the normal way – but the RCC teaches that she was immune from the inherited or imputed sin.
If that's the case, I suppose the Saviour needed her more than she needed Him. In fact, that would make her the only human who never needed a Saviour!

Is there anyone mentioned at all in the Scriptures, who has no need for a Saviour?

The official doctrine says:
“The blessed Virgin Mary to have been, from the first instant of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of Almighty God, in view of the merits of Christ Jesus the Savior of Mankind, preserved free from all stain of original sin” (Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus, December 1854).

In other words, that means Mary was protected from original sin (no sin nature), and was sinless.

The RCC cites Luke 1 to support their interpretation:

Luke 1
28*The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”
29*Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30*But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31*You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32*He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33*and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”


Of course, one who is to carry and give birth to the Messiah (God as human), would be described as HIGHLY-favored if we make comparisons with others who had found favor in the eyes of God! Like Elizabeth, as an example – the mother of John the Baptist.

Luke 1
25“The Lord has done this for me,” she said. “In these days he has shown his favor and taken away my disgrace among the people.”



But to have been HIGHLY-favored, does not automatically mean she was sinless – as explained, because that would've meant she never needed a Saviour to begin with!




Think about it:

If such a person with that kind of distinction among the rest of mankind – the only one who had ever existed - the only one who never needed any Saviour - wouldn't that be written, or at least mentioned at all in the Bible?











3. Mary's Perpetual Virginity



This is a no-brainer! Mary and Joseph had several children together! That fact is supported several times in the Scriptures!
But why does the RCC say that?
Because the RCC wants to give her an exalted position in heaven – having the closest access to Jesus and God.

Mind you - even if she has the exalted position in Heaven (for giving earthly birth to God), why does she have to be presented as a “perpetual virgin,”
which clearly she was not! Having had sex with Joseph does not make her tainted. There's no sin in sex within a marriage!
Click to expand...

When the RCC decided that priests had to be celibate, it skewed their perception of sex in my opinion. Being forbidden to marry made sex a sin for them and I think they began to see all sex as sinful. I think the perpetual virginity is silly.
 
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Elvira said:
My rule of thumb...if a Christian is not directed in the Bible to do something, when it comes to our worship, don't do it...if it is vital to our worship, God would have given direction for it...
Click to expand...

Do you mean like calling Michael the Archangel your savior?
 
bearpoker said:
From the Athanasian Creed:
He is God, begotten before all worlds from the being of the Father,
and he is man, born in the world from the being of his mother,
existing fully as God, and fully as man with a rational soul and a human body;
equal to the Father in divinity, subordinate to the Father in humanity.

The dual nature of the Son is what you call a mystery.
Click to expand...

That doesn't change the fact that when someone told Jesus His mother and brothers were there waiting to speak to Him, His answer was:

Matthew 12

48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?”

49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers.

50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”



He showed there is no special distinction!
 
it's just me said:
Do you mean like calling Michael the Archangel your savior?
Click to expand...

This isn't about Jehovah's Witnesses' false teachings on Jesus.

This thread is about the Marian doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church.
Please, stick to the topic.
 
tosca1 said:
This isn't about Jehovah's Witnesses' false teachings on Jesus.

This thread is about the Marian doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church.
Please, stick to the topic.
Click to expand...

Hey, you are the one who is all het up on false teachings. Don't worry, I'll straighten you out too, unless you, too think you're infallible like Elvira thinks she is.
 
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