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The truth hurts....which is why people reject it

OrphanSlug said:
Three things...

"Christians" only follow or do what is convenient, the rest is explained away.

Trump has nothing to do with Christianity.

Hell is nothing more than a weapon for Christianity to threaten their flock with.
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Guess you will find out in the end

And the end of course can come at any time
 
Elvira said:
lol...some would say the Church is not holy...
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The Church is perpetually holy as long as Jesus (the Consecrated Hosts) are there

But as with the Ark of the Covenant...God warned that through disobedience, man could lose God's Presence...
I believe jesus' Real Presence will always be with us but ...some churches iv been to....I just wonder..if the Old Testament threat from God to remove his presence has or will be executed..
So much craziness these days...anti-Christ stuff going on
 
Stealers Wheel said:
You present this as though these things are somehow tied to one's salvation. I reject that notion.

The commandments are given for our benefit, not our destruction. The more people obey the commandments, the better off they and the rest of the world are.

Regardless, there is nothing anyone can do that would warrant them deserving of eternal life and salvation. Hence, the need and provision of a savior. One's salvation is not dependent on how well one complies with those commandments, but rather they are guideposts to help us all live the best lives we can. To say otherwise is to reduce God to a petty functionary who is there simply to see how many boxes you checked off during your life.
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Doubters spend their time trying to make a case for why salvation isn't a reality. Jesus' teachings are for us to use to guide our behavior and our thinking. He knows we will falter but that is where his forgiveness comes in. Repent, and work at doing better.
 
rjay said:
I am confused, perhaps you can elaborate and unmudify my fuzzification

You said You have been to Hell both figuratively and otherwise. It is the 'otherwise' bit, that has cause confusion. I know you don't mean literally. The fact that you posted on this board, puts that possibility to rest. What does otherwise mean in this context?
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I'll answer but u won't understand

I have been near people who do the devil's bidding on a regular basis..I feel I am in hell when near them. Obviously I remove myself...long story all the details..but I am sure u have felt a strong presence of evil before...
 
Integrityrespec said:
Doubters spend their time trying to make a case for why salvation isn't a reality.
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Why would they need to do that? It's as silly as someone spending their time trying to make a case to Santa so they get more presents.

Jesus' teachings are for us to use to guide our behavior and our thinking. He knows we will falter but that is where his forgiveness comes in. Repent, and work at doing better.
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Why would I listen to a storybook character? Particularly one like Jesus who says some dumb things sometimes. Wouldn't it make more sense to listen to Dumbledore as he says less dumb things?
 
2distracted said:
Guess you will find out in the end

And the end of course can come at any time
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This post proves my point about the Bronze Age based idea of reward in heaven or eternal punishment in hell.

It was prevalent of the period, and monotheism did not invent something new here.

2distracted said:
How do u know?

It takes great faith to believe that with absolute certainty
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No, it takes "great faith" to believe in these things you profess.
 
2distracted said:
I'll answer but u won't understand

I have been near people who do the devil's bidding on a regular basis..I feel I am in hell when near them. Obviously I remove myself...long story all the details..but I am sure u have felt a strong presence of evil before...
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Prove that they were doing the devil's bidding. Still no proof of the existence of this devil. Got any?
 
Stealers Wheel said:
Such as?
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Lets' start with the first four Beatitudes. Of the first four, three describe states that mankind should be striving to avoid: Hunger, mourning, and poverty. Jesus is effectively saying they're good, that you're "blessed" if you suffer from them. That's dumb.

The other, "blessed are the meek," is just a way of pacifying the downtrodden like women and slaves. Slaves shouldn't accept their position, they should try and escape. Women shouldn't accept their role as second class citizens, they should fight for equality. Why isn't Jesus saying blessed are the slave owners who free their slaves? Why isn't Jesus saying blessed are the women who fight for equal rights? Those would be a good things to say.
 
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OrphanSlug said:
This post proves my point about the Bronze Age based idea of reward in heaven or eternal punishment in hell.

It was prevalent of the period, and monotheism did not invent something new here.



No, it takes "great faith" to believe in these things you profess.
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No it doesn't take blind Faith to know what I know...I am beyond mere belief (mental assent). I pray others find what I've found..yes, there are crosses involved but...there are crosses in life for all anyway
 
zyzygy said:
Prove that they were doing the devil's bidding. Still no proof of the existence of this devil. Got any?
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Told ya u wouldn't understand..

Some day maybe something will happen and you will seek and find
 
Lovebug said:
Trump bad, Christians evil?
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Trump is bad, a d he is no Christian, he is like a TV Evangelist, just faking it for his own personal gain.

Christianity can be good or evil, it seems like on the local scale the do a lot of good, but on the International scale not so much...
 
GDViking said:
Trump is bad, a d he is no Christian, he is like a TV Evangelist, just faking it for his own personal gain.

Christianity can be good or evil, it seems like on the local scale the do a lot of good, but on the International scale not so much...
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Oh so u know the depths of his soul

I thought only God was capable of such
 
Lovebug said:
Trump bad,
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Well that depends on your values and morals doesn't it? I think it's wrong to support scamming money from children with cancer, and the people who do it. I think it's wrong to steal from charity, and the people who do it. I think it's wrong to scam people with fake Universities, and the people who do it. I think it's wrong to support racist movements, and the people who lead them.

But those aren't your values, you actively support the people who do those things every day on this forum. So obviously we're going to look at Trump differently.

Christians evil?
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They certainly behave evilly sometimes. Like when they're supporting scamming money from children with cancer. Doesn't get much more evil and pathetic than that. Are you Evangelical?

Survey: White Evangelicals See Trump As 'Honest' And 'Morally Upstanding' : NPR
 
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JustHanging said:
Lets' start with the first four Beatitudes. Of the first four, three describe states that mankind should be striving to avoid: Hunger, mourning, and poverty. Jesus is effectively saying they're good, that you're "blessed" if you suffer from them. That's dumb.

The other, "blessed are the meek," is just a way of pacifying the downtrodden like women and slaves. Slaves shouldn't accept their position, they should try and escape. Women shouldn't accept their role as second class citizens, they should fight for equality. Why isn't Jesus saying blessed are the slave owners who free their slaves? Why isn't Jesus saying blessed are the women who fight for equal rights? Those would be a good things to say.
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There are five essential elements to communication:

1. A sender
2. with a message
3. through a medium
4. to a receiver
5. with understanding.

If any one of these elements is missing or interfered with, communication does not take place.

I've read your words, and I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not being deliberately obtuse.

You have read Jesus' words, someone you refer to as "a storybook character" interpreted them through the lens of 21st century America, and and assumed you have understanding. Further, you take the words out of context and disregard the original audience, the societal and political realities of that day, as well as the ultimate mission of Jesus.

There have been entire treatises written on each of the beatitudes by wise and learned scholars. You, having read none of them, presume to have greater understanding and insight than they. What does this say about your attitude? Is it an attitude of seeking wisdom and knowledge? I think not.
 
JustHanging said:
Lets' start with the first four Beatitudes. Of the first four, three describe states that mankind should be striving to avoid: Hunger, mourning, and poverty. Jesus is effectively saying they're good, that you're "blessed" if you suffer from them. That's dumb.

The other, "blessed are the meek," is just a way of pacifying the downtrodden like women and slaves. Slaves shouldn't accept their position, they should try and escape. Women shouldn't accept their role as second class citizens, they should fight for equality. Why isn't Jesus saying blessed are the slave owners who free their slaves? Why isn't Jesus saying blessed are the women who fight for equal rights? Those would be a good things to say.
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You ignored one vital point Jesus was making...he was referring to the spiritual, not the physical...he says so right in verse 3...of course, the physical man cannot understand that...the ones who mourn is in regards to mourning ove their poor spiritual state, their sinful condition, or the distressing circumstances that have resulted from human sinfulness...and best of...“Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth"...
 
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2distracted said:
Guess you will find out in the end

And the end of course can come at any time
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How do you know that? Your claims are not backed up with objective evidence.
 
Stealers Wheel said:
There are five essential elements to communication:

1. A sender
2. with a message
3. through a medium
4. to a receiver
5. with understanding.

If any one of these elements is missing or interfered with, communication does not take place.

I've read your words, and I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not being deliberately obtuse.
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Thank you.

You have read Jesus' words, someone you refer to as "a storybook character" interpreted them through the lens of 21st century America,
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He is factually a storybook character. There is essentially no evidence outside the bible that a magical god/man existed in real life. I'll grant that a man name Jesus might have existed, even though that is questionable as well.

Of course I'm reading it as a 21st century man. If God is as described in the bible, if he thinks his message is important, he will have ensured that his message has come through loud and clear to me in this century.

Further, you take the words out of context and disregard the original audience, the societal and political realities of that day, as well as the ultimate mission of Jesus.
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First, you are arguing that societal and political pressures of the day dictated what an ALL POWERFUL GOD could say. Seriously? How does that make any sense?

Second, how does that change the fact that telling people to strive for poverty and hunger, for them and their children, is a negative thing to say? Would you tell your children to strive for poverty and hunger? Of course not, so why does it become good when Jesus does it?


There have been entire treatises written on each of the beatitudes by wise and learned scholars.
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You mean the Christian scholars? You mean the scholars working in a field completely dominated by Christians? You mean the scholars, some of whom would have been tortured to death for questioning the wisdom of Christ. You mean today's Christian scholars, some of whom we can find on youtube being deceitful? Those scholars?

You, having read none of them, presume to have greater understanding and insight than they.
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Actually I have read some of them. And obviously my insight and understanding is greater than theirs if they are saying striving for poverty and hunger is a good thing. Your insight and understanding are better as well, because I know darn well you would never tell you own children this...yet God tells his children this?

What does this say about your attitude? Is it an attitude of seeking wisdom and knowledge? I think not.
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Quite the opposite. I seek knowledge, I don't just accept the status quo. I say platitudes that work to suppress slaves and women are bad platitudes. Do you think platitudes that suppress women and slaves are a good thing?

Then they obviously got some of it wrong. Platitudes that work to suppress women and slaves are not good platitudes. Period.
 
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Elvira said:
You ignored one vital point Jesus was making...he was referring to the spiritual, not the physical...he says so right in verse 3...of course, the physical man cannot understand that...the ones who mourn is in regards to mourning ove their poor spiritual state, their sinful condition, or the distressing circumstances that have resulted from human sinfulness...and best of...“Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth"...
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Explain to me how platitudes that work to suppress women and slaves are a good thing.

And this is reiterated in other parts of Jesus's book:

Ephesians 6:5-9
5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.

2 Corinthians 8:9
For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.


I was thinking of the Gospel of Luke Beatitudes:

Luke 6:20-21
And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. “Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you shall be satisfied. “Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.


This is saying be content with your poverty. That is wrong.
 
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JustHanging said:
Explain to me how platitudes that work to suppress women and slaves are a good thing.

And this is reiterated in other parts of Jesus's book:

Ephesians 6:5-9
5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.


And the Gospel of Luke clarifies the Beatitudes:

Blessed are you who are poor,
for yours is the kingdom of God.
Blessed are you who hunger now,
for you will be satisfied.
Blessed are you who weep now,
for you will laugh.
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Fact...we're all slaves to something or someone...again, Jesus is referring to those conscious of their spiritual needs, those who hunger for spiritual food, those who realize they are poor spiritually...nothing whatsoever to do with physical things...
 
Elvira said:
Fact...we're all slaves to something or someone...
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Oh, really? Someone owns you? They can beat you and rape you as much as they want, and as long as you don't die in a day or two, it's all cool? They can sell you to another person, and you become that person's property? You need to phone the police immediately. You can also contact this website: Canadian Human Trafficking Hotline – The Canadian Centre To End Human Trafficking

Or are you just trivializing the plight of actual sex slaves and others to avoid facing the reality of your biblical beliefs?

Jesus is referring to those conscious of their spiritual needs, those who hunger for spiritual food, those who realize they are poor spiritually...nothing whatsoever to do with physical things...
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You are correct for hunger. My memory isn't what it used to be, my brain was stuck on Luke and poverty. Thank you for correcting me.

But I will stand by my comment regarding the meek. That is meant to pacify those who should be working and fighting to gain equality, such as slaves and women. The bible even condones slavery, telling slaves to obey their masters. That is wrong.
 
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