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Meaning & Mystery

vegas giants said:
Angel said:
Much obliged for the bump, fella.
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You dont want debate.


You have conceded
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Where I grew up nicknames were important social designations -- you knew you'd arrived when you got a nickname in the old neighborhood. With your permission, I'd like to give you a nickname based on your participation in my threads. I'd like to nickname you "Bump." Do I have your blessing?
 
Angel said:
Where I grew up nicknames were important social designations -- you knew you'd arrived when you got a nickname in the old neighborhood. With your permission, I'd like to give you a nickname based on your participation in my threads. I'd like to nickname you "Bump." Do I have your blessing?
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No. I am here for debate.


You are here for childish games
 
Angel said:
I don't wonder that at all, not with the likes of you posting to my threads, debater.
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I see you have nothing to offer but insult.


Thread fail
 
Angel said:
And what, pray tell, have you offered in your last twenty thirty posts to my threads?
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I tried dude. You started with the insults.


You cant debate someone who when they get frustrated at losing they start hurling insults.


That was the point you conceded
 
vegas giants said:
I tried dude. You started with the insults.


You cant debate someone who when they get frustrated at losing they start hurling insults.


That was the point you conceded
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Three little lies, one atop the other.
 
vegas giants said:
Read the thread. Between us....who hurled the first insult?


Be honest
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Your first post to this thread implying that the Original Poster, along with all theists, is stupid.
vegas giants said:
Those that believe in a fairy tale have an overwhelming desire to convince others to believe in the fairy tale because then they dont feel so stupid
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The Topic
​
Angel said:
"All things point to God." ​

Thesis

1. Meaning is the key to understanding. This is self-evident. If you don't understand the meaning of something, you don't understand it.

2. Mystery is understanding deferred. This also is self-evident.

3. The universe, life on Earth, and consciousness are the fundamental existential mysteries of the World. The World Riddle. Also self-evident.

4. What is the deferred meaning of the the World Riddle?

5, Answer: God.


Argument

6. A sign is something that indicates or points to the existence of something else which is the meaning of the sign.

7. A sign is meaning deferred -- one must recognize the sign as sign and understand its meaning.

8. A sign means something, and the meaning of a sign is that which the sign indicates or points to.

8a. Do you understand the meaning of the following signs?

अति सर्वत्र वर्जयेत्

9. Probably not. And yet these signs possess a meaning.

10. And that meaning exists in and through those signs whether or not you understand the signs or their meaning.

11. The meaning lies hidden in the signs and only those who recognize and understand the signs are able to read the signs for meaning.

12. The universe is a sign.
13. Life is a sign.
14. Consciousness is a sign.

15. Can you recognize and understand the deferred meaning of the universe, as sign?
16. Can you recognize and understand the deferred meaning of life on Earth, as sign?
17. Can you recognize and understand the deferred meaning of consciousness, as sign?

18. Question: What do these mysterious signs indicate? What do they point to?

19. Answer: God exists.

20. To understand the deferred meaning of the World Riddle is to understand that God exists.

Conclusions

21. The mystery of the World has a meaning and that meaning is God.
22. The World means God.
23. God is the meaning of the World.
24. Atheism is symptomatic of not being able to "read" the World for meaning.
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Happy anniversary again...
Your argument is basically:
"the universe is a sign, there is a meaning behind all signs just as there is an understanding behind all mysteries , so what is behind the universe? GOD."
You never seem to elaborate on what God actually is. God could be anything. Do you mean the Biblical God? Perhaps, but your argument does not demonstrate He exists, only that there is a meaning to the universe, and you refer to that meaning as God. It seems to appeal to you that the meaning of the universe is personified as a supreme and omnipotent being, but apart from that, your logic, as usual, demonstrates what we all already know: the universe exists. Your claims that the universe is akin to a sign or a mystery are not completely routed in fact: we don't know everything about the universe, but that doesn't mean all we don't know is God.
 
Marrybore said:
Happy anniversary again...
Your argument is basically:
"the universe is a sign, there is a meaning behind all signs just as there is an understanding behind all mysteries , so what is behind the universe? GOD."
You never seem to elaborate on what God actually is. God could be anything. Do you mean the Biblical God? Perhaps, but your argument does not demonstrate He exists, only that there is a meaning to the universe, and you refer to that meaning as God. It seems to appeal to you that the meaning of the universe is personified as a supreme and omnipotent being, but apart from that, your logic, as usual, demonstrates what we all already know: the universe exists. Your claims that the universe is akin to a sign or a mystery are not completely routed in fact: we don't know everything about the universe, but that doesn't mean all we don't know is God.
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Thank you.

No, I am not talking about religion here or in any of my threads. I'm trying to do philosophy. The God or Transcendental Reality I'm after stand behind all 1001 religions of the world. Religions speak to the nature of God. My philosophical interest is in the existence of God and does not presume to venture into the nature of God. The God or Transcendental Reality I post about I call the Desideratum Ultimum et Explanans Mundi (roughly the ground of all that exists) and this concept is derived empirically by way of inference to the best explanation. Here is how I put it in another thread:

Angel's Empirical Argument For God

The experience of the person I am in the world—my consciousness, my life, and the physical world in which my conscious life appears to be set—these phenomena comprise a Stupendous Given. There's no getting around them and no getting outside them and no accounting for them from within the phenomena themselves. These phenomena point to something beyond themselves. The attempt to account for these phenomena from within the phenomena themselves has given rise to science, art and religion and the whole cultural adventure we call "civilization"—the long human struggle for purchase on the Stupendous Given. In the end, however, the only account that accords with reason is the account that infers to a Stupendous Giver. In sum, from the existence of consciousness, the existence of life, and the existence of the physical universe, the inference to the best explanation is God.

The OP in this thread tries to reach the existence of God through the semiotic exercise of reason.
 
Angel said:
Thank you.

No, I am not talking about religion here or in any of my threads. I'm trying to do philosophy. The God or Transcendental Reality I'm after stand behind all 1001 religions of the world. Religions speak to the nature of God. My philosophical interest is in the existence of God and does not presume to venture into the nature of God. The God or Transcendental Reality I post about I call the Desideratum Ultimum et Explanans Mundi (roughly the ground of all that exists) and this concept is derived empirically by way of inference to the best explanation. Here is how I put it in another thread:

Angel's Empirical Argument For God

The experience of the person I am in the world—my consciousness, my life, and the physical world in which my conscious life appears to be set—these phenomena comprise a Stupendous Given. There's no getting around them and no getting outside them and no accounting for them from within the phenomena themselves. These phenomena point to something beyond themselves. The attempt to account for these phenomena from within the phenomena themselves has given rise to science, art and religion and the whole cultural adventure we call "civilization"—the long human struggle for purchase on the Stupendous Given. In the end, however, the only account that accords with reason is the account that infers to a Stupendous Giver. In sum, from the existence of consciousness, the existence of life, and the existence of the physical universe, the inference to the best explanation is God.

The OP in this thread tries to reach the existence of God through the semiotic exercise of reason.
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This is an interesting exercise.
You seem to be searching for a reason - like many people I've met, you believe the existence of the universe automatically points to some kind of divine entity, it must have some kind of reason, and what is that reason but God? Right?
 
Marrybore said:
This is an interesting exercise.
You seem to be searching for a reason - like many people I've met, you believe the existence of the universe automatically points to some kind of divine entity, it must have some kind of reason, and what is that reason but God? Right?
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To have found, not "to be searching." Yes.
 
Alternate Title:

The Semiotic Argument For God's Existence

Spread the word. There's a new argument in town​
 
The yellow light appears to mean "drive like hell because the next light is red".
 
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