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How America destroyed the Gospel

Elvira said:
Living forever does not equate with pre-destination...there will always be limits to our freedoms/rights, just as there are now...for safety, for consideration of others, and just plain old common sense...
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Are you familiar with the game persona 5? It is a game series that draws upon mythological creatures, spirits, and folklore as the basis of their games. The theme of the fifth game is rebelling against the rules and authority of a corrupt society and finding the freedom to follow ones true path.

Spoilers for the game—-

The final boss of persona 5 is the embodiment of the collection human unconscious, it first takes the form of the holy grail, but reveals itself as Yaldabaoth, the god of control. He calls himself the administrator of the collective human unconscious, and the entire game up until that point was a test set up by the god of control to determine the character of mankind and what fate should befall them. The problem is that this test was rigged: Yaldabaoth had already judged that humanity was doomed to failure and that it was his duty to assume all of the responsibilities and control mankind. And as the embodiment of the collective human unconscious, he was represented mankind’s innate desire to be ruled over and have no control over their own fate.

The protagonist ultimately defeats Yaldabaoth by summoning his ultimate persona Sataneal. In some interpretations of the Gnosticism, Sataneal was an angel who served the demiurge (god) but he discovered that the demiurge was a false god bent on controlling mankind and ultimately rebelled against the false god and gave mankind the knowledge to free themselves from the false god’s control. For this act of rebellion Sataneal was cast out of heaven and imprisioned.

I think the gnostic account offers an interesting philosophical debate.
 
Elvira said:
Until the next human or angel decided to rebel and then what?
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it would still be clear since god would be in communication with every one

as it is now you can tell me a god said anything and i have no way to know if thats true or not

but if god revels itself to all then god can just confirm or deny that what you say is from it

any acts of rebellion on your part would not stop me or any one else from knowing what god says if god would actually talk
 
Elvira said:
Disobedience/sin is the cause of death...
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only if god has limited power if not then creating death to occur under any circumstances is the cause of death
 
Elvira said:
So did Satan...so did Adam and Eve...
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and they never murdered hurt or oppressed any one because they figured god wanted it done
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Are you familiar with the game persona 5? It is a game series that draws upon mythological creatures, spirits, and folklore as the basis of their games. The theme of the fifth game is rebelling against the rules and authority of a corrupt society and finding the freedom to follow ones true path.

Spoilers for the game—-

The final boss of persona 5 is the embodiment of the collection human unconscious, it first takes the form of the holy grail, but reveals itself as Yaldabaoth, the god of control. He calls himself the administrator of the collective human unconscious, and the entire game up until that point was a test set up by the god of control to determine the character of mankind and what fate should befall them. The problem is that this test was rigged: Yaldabaoth had already judged that humanity was doomed to failure and that it was his duty to assume all of the responsibilities and control mankind. And as the embodiment of the collective human unconscious, he was represented mankind’s innate desire to be ruled over and have no control over their own fate.

The protagonist ultimately defeats Yaldabaoth by summoning his ultimate persona Sataneal. In some interpretations of the Gnosticism, Sataneal was an angel who served the demiurge (god) but he discovered that the demiurge was a false god bent on controlling mankind and ultimately rebelled against the false god and gave mankind the knowledge to free themselves from the false god’s control. For this act of rebellion Sataneal was cast out of heaven and imprisioned.

I think the gnostic account offers an interesting philosophical debate.
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Interesting game and that's all it is...we can see by the world we live in Satan has freed us from nothing but he has brought evil, sin and death into the world...
 
Elvira said:
So did Satan...so did Adam and Eve...
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No, they did not. God did not fully explain why he created them in the first place. He did not spell out why obedience was necessary or any details of the consequences of disobedience. Adam and Eve knew nothing at all. They were innocents with no experience. Then god purposely took advantage of that by putting the serpent in Garden even though there was no need to do this. It was a set up.
 
devildavid said:
No, they did not. God did not fully explain why he created them in the first place. He did not spell out why obedience was necessary or any details of the consequences of disobedience. Adam and Eve knew nothing at all. They were innocents with no experience. Then god purposely took advantage of that by putting the serpent in Garden even though there was no need to do this. It was a set up.
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He most certainly did...

"But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” Genesis 2:17

God created the serpent, true, but Satan chose to use the serpent, in order to deceive Eve...God had nothing to do with it...Satan was exercising his free will, as Eve was, as Adam was, and they paid the consequences for that...
 
Logician Man said:
Two more ^^^ fallacious claims you can't prove to be factual truth. Reason? Because both claims are blatant lies. My motives are to discuss religious matters, and feel free to give any post# where I am 'ranting', as you fallaciously claim, and how anything I am posting is 'ranting.' Have you noticed no one else involved in this discussion is accusing me of ranting, or 'stirring up trouble'? There's good reason for that. It's because you claims afe fallacies; not statements of fact.
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Blah, blah, blah. You are starting to sound like Charlie Brown's parents.
 
Elvira said:
Interesting game and that's all it is...we can see by the world we live in Satan has freed us from nothing but he has brought evil, sin and death into the world...
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Isn’t it a worse fate to be enslaved by a being with absolute authority and be unable to be free to choose ones own destiny?

And why do you put death in the same category as evil and sin? Death is a natural part of the cycle of life.
 
devildavid said:
No, they did not. God did not fully explain why he created them in the first place. He did not spell out why obedience was necessary or any details of the consequences of disobedience. Adam and Eve knew nothing at all. They were innocents with no experience. Then god purposely took advantage of that by putting the serpent in Garden even though there was no need to do this. It was a set up.
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A rigged game.
 
it's just me said:
Blah, blah, blah. You are starting to sound like Charlie Brown's parents.
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Translation: I do indeed concede the point, accept the fact I lost the argument (again), and have now been reduced to 'blah,blah,blah.....' retorts. That has to be embarrassing.
 
Logician Man said:
Translation: I do indeed concede the point, accept the fact I lost the argument (again), and have now been reduced to 'blah,blah,blah.....' retorts. That has to be embarrassing.
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You know, I rarely get past the first sentence of these rants of yours. Give it up.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Isn’t it a worse fate to be enslaved by a being with absolute authority and be unable to be free to choose ones own destiny?

And why do you put death in the same category as evil and sin? Death is a natural part of the cycle of life.
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And what are we enslaved to now? Nothing but sin/death/corruption...we have no idea what true freedom is...

"that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God." Romans 8:21

On the other hand, God created us, He knows us inside and outside, so it only stands to reason He knows, better than we do, what is best for us because He loves us, I have every full confidence He will treat us well...

“Eye has not seen and ear has not heard, nor have there been conceived in the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love him.” 1 Corinthians 2:9
 
Elvira said:
He doesn't...unless he is God and I doubt that...:2razz:
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God has told us in His word but you don't pay attention to it or God, so....
 
it's just me said:
God has told us in His word but you don't pay attention to it or God, so....
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that may or may not be true but no god has told me anything and iv even asked
 
it's just me said:
You know, I rarely get past the first sentence of these rants of yours. Give it up.
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You should drop the pride and read the posts so you can be enlightened as to what is, and isn't biblically correct, accepted givens, and biblical no-nos. I would suggest you start with learning what Christ said about one's ability to read other's minds and hearts. That could go far in helping you learn biblical truth, and save you from further embarrassment such as proclaiming you are qualified to read other's minds and hearts, and it would finally sink in that when you repeated try, and fail miserably, to put YOUR words in OTHER'S mouths, it only hurts you and exposes your unenlightened 'bad faith posting.'
 
Elvira said:
And what are we enslaved to now? Nothing but sin/death/corruption...we have no idea what true freedom is...

"that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God." Romans 8:21

On the other hand, God created us, He knows us inside and outside, so it only stands to reason He knows, better than we do, what is best for us because He loves us, I have every full confidence He will treat us well...

“Eye has not seen and ear has not heard, nor have there been conceived in the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love him.” 1 Corinthians 2:9
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Death is part of life, one must not treat it with fear and hatred.

Humanity is free because it has the power to choose its own destiny. And that is something I truly think is worth protecting: the ability to choose my destiny. I refuse to be chained down by an unjust system, an unjust society, unjust authorities. I refuse to have a fate forced upon me without my consent

Does that make me sinful?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Death is part of life, one must not treat it with fear and hatred.

Humanity is free because it has the power to choose its own destiny. And that is something I truly think is worth protecting: the ability to choose my destiny. I refuse to be chained down by an unjust system, an unjust society, unjust authorities. I refuse to have a fate forced upon me without my consent

Does that make me sinful?
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You live in an unjust system, and unjust society, unjust authorities...

You've probably been told that but death is not a part of life, or at least, it was not supposed to be...death is our enemy and it will be destroyed, along with mankind's common grave...they will be no more...

"And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing." 1 Corinthians 15:26

And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Death is part of life, one must not treat it with fear and hatred.

Humanity is free because it has the power to choose its own destiny. And that is something I truly think is worth protecting: the ability to choose my destiny. I refuse to be chained down by an unjust system, an unjust society, unjust authorities. I refuse to have a fate forced upon me without my consent

Does that make me sinful?
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no i like to be aware of things and to choose to do things plenty to fear and hate about death
 
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