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Pagan Persecution of Cristians DID NOT TOUCH , Christian Persecution of Pagans..

Elvira said:
Pagans were around long before Rome even existed...
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Conceptually, yes. As a general term used to describe non-christians, no.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Conceptually, yes. As a general term used to describe non-christians, no.
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Well, of course not...there were no Christians before Jesus came to the earth...
 
devildavid said:
You posted something that is not original to you and it doesn't matter what excuses you make for it.
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No excuses being made. So what? It is all trivial bits and pieces of history, proven and not, questioned by all who read them, because everyone is an expert.

Art builds on art, with and without credit being given. Stories originated and buried in history's past are now myths accepted as true by some, not so by others. The real question is belief, and belief can be rejected but not disproved.
 
Elvira said:
Well, of course not...there were no Christians before Jesus came to the earth...
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You are a believer. I respect that. However, I am not a believer, and as one of the Mari peoples, I am one of those pagans of your world. Yet we warred with the Pagans, and were never defeated by the Pagans. They are no more, we are still on this earth, thriving. The Pagans were not destroyed by Rome, they made the mistake of going to war with the Scythians, who in turn fell to the Huns after more than a millennia defeating the ancient Greeks and Romans, as well as the Persians. Every culture has its zenith, and capitalization to other cultures, yet sometimes, some survive, under the radar to emerge later in this life, stronger than they were at their zenith.

Nothing in this life is what it seems, no matter what we choose to believe.
 
OldFatGuy said:
No excuses being made. So what? It is all trivial bits and pieces of history, proven and not, questioned by all who read them, because everyone is an expert.

Art builds on art, with and without credit being given. Stories originated and buried in history's past are now myths accepted as true by some, not so by others. The real question is belief, and belief can be rejected but not disproved.
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Actually, it's not trivial...rule #9 in the forum rules covers it...

Forum Rules
 
OldFatGuy said:
No excuses being made. So what? It is all trivial bits and pieces of history, proven and not, questioned by all who read them, because everyone is an expert.

Art builds on art, with and without credit being given. Stories originated and buried in history's past are now myths accepted as true by some, not so by others. The real question is belief, and belief can be rejected but not disproved.
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Your post lifted someone else's writing.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Conceptually, yes. As a general term used to describe non-christians, no.
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What?!?!

The Greek pantheon is the exact same as the Roman one... and that goes back to Alexander the Great and Troy.. AT LEAST...


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Elvira said:
Actually, it's not trivial...rule #9 in the forum rules covers it...

Forum Rules
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You're mistaking the target of the sarcasm. It isn't aimed at any religious belief, rather those that think their knowledge is more significant than that of believers. Note the last sentence of the second paragraph.
 
ArtemisBarca said:
History is always written by the victors and there are few better examples than the mainstream narrative of the “persecuted Christians”..

Well in doing my normal little trot through history stuff , I ran across something I think is VERY undermentioned historically..


None of the Christians needed to be persecuted.. as far as I can tell , in Rome and in Japan. The Christians there were even begged to make a BS sacrifice to the emperors, or make a statement denouncing Christianity that they did not have to mean?!?!

I am quite sure it went otherwise in individual cases, but as an overall standard, that is how it went..



HERE IS THE TURN!!!!

When the roles reversed, the EXACT same culture, with the same peoples genetics , DO YOU THINK THE CHRISTIANS GAVE THEM A GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD?!!?!


Hell no... they were torturing and murdering pagans and the pagans were ABSOLUTELY NOT offered the chance to make a BS statement confirming Christianity and be let go..



That is a MASSIVE DIFFERENCE..

The Christian victims of persecution were martyred as they chose their fate willingly..

The pagan victims of persecution were totally victims..



Pretty nuts.


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Nobody should trust historical novels bought at Toys-Or-Us.
 
OldFatGuy said:
You're mistaking the target of the sarcasm. It isn't aimed at any religious belief, rather those that think their knowledge is more significant than that of believers. Note the last sentence of the second paragraph.
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I know to pass someone else's words off as your own, is not only deceptive, but it is illegal...
 
ArtemisBarca said:
What?!?!

The Greek pantheon is the exact same as the Roman one... and that goes back to Alexander the Great and Troy.. AT LEAST...
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Not identical, but similar. Neither are as ancient as those of the northern gods, the gods of the steppes and cold, the gods of British isles, nor the gods of those the Romans labeled Celts, which were all those who opposed them early in Iberia, the British Isles and where the Frankish tribes would later invade and conquer before the Romans. And all those tribes with their common and not so common beliefs were the same peoples as the Etruscans who ruled Italy before the Romans conquered and absorbed them, taking from the cultures what the Romans found desirable. The Greeks did not have family, and household gods, the Romans adopted that form of ancestor worship from those they called Etruscans.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Not identical, but similar. Neither are as ancient as those of the northern gods, the gods of the steppes and cold, the gods of British isles, nor the gods of those the Romans labeled Celts, which were all those who opposed them early in Iberia, the British Isles and where the Frankish tribes would later invade and conquer before the Romans. And all those tribes with their common and not so common beliefs were the same peoples as the Etruscans who ruled Italy before the Romans conquered and absorbed them, taking from the cultures what the Romans found desirable. The Greeks did not have family, and household gods, the Romans adopted that form of ancestor worship from those they called Etruscans.
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But they all had Jupiter/Zeus/. Heracles/Hercules , Saturn/Hera/ exc...



Same thing just by a different name..


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Elvira said:
I know to pass someone else's words off as your own, is not only deceptive, but it is illegal...
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Plagiarism is only unlawful when intentional profit is the motive, cutting out the author of the words repeated from his or her share of those profits. Read the plagiarism laws. Certainly not the case here. In schools, it is cited when annotation credit is not given, as dishonorable behavior. One first has to believe in honor for that to be a standard. There are no words, no ideas, others have not used or expressed before.

Your religious beliefs are not being attacked. Your statement about the age of the Gita was deflected with an expression of other opinion, and that is all that both of us offer, opinion. As an individual who is not a follower of an Abrahamic religion, I am fascinated by similarities between the Torah, your First Testament, and stories archeologists and linguists are discovering in older texts now being found and translated. These finds do not prove or disprove anything, however they give us something else to ponder as we try to better understand the human condition.

I recently read, and I don't recall where, nor do I recall the locations given, that Noah's story has now been found in similar texts from older religions in different parts of the world, where current archeology and climate scientists found evidence of massive floods decades recently prior to the dating of these texts. Make of this what you will, or not. Your choice.

These are not plagiaristic ideas, they are passing conversation with no profit intended, no school grading expected. And in the scheme of things, they too are trivial.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Plagiarism is only unlawful when intentional profit is the motive, cutting out the author of the words repeated from his or her share of those profits. Read the plagiarism laws. Certainly not the case here. In schools, it is cited when annotation credit is not given, as dishonorable behavior. One first has to believe in honor for that to be a standard. There are no words, no ideas, others have not used or expressed before.

Your religious beliefs are not being attacked. Your statement about the age of the Gita was deflected with an expression of other opinion, and that is all that both of us offer, opinion. As an individual who is not a follower of an Abrahamic religion, I am fascinated by similarities between the Torah, your First Testament, and stories archeologists and linguists are discovering in older texts now being found and translated. These finds do not prove or disprove anything, however they give us something else to ponder as we try to better understand the human condition.

I recently read, and I don't recall where, nor do I recall the locations given, that Noah's story has now been found in similar texts from older religions in different parts of the world, where current archeology and climate scientists found evidence of massive floods decades recently prior to the dating of these texts. Make of this what you will, or not. Your choice.

These are not plagiaristic ideas, they are passing conversation with no profit intended, no school grading expected. And in the scheme of things, they too are trivial.
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And I forgot to add, at the very least, they are against forum rules...
 
ArtemisBarca said:
But they all had Jupiter/Zeus/. Heracles/Hercules , Saturn/Hera/ exc...



Same thing just by a different name.
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Only the Greeks and Romans, maybe the Mycenaeans, but their religion is lost to us. Archeological historians tell us Rome was founded by survivors from Troy, who were as Greek as those who destroyed Troy. Not the mythic twins Romulus and Remus raised by wolves. Yet archeological digs in Rome, show it was built over an older city from a different civilization, about which we know next to nothing. From competing cultures in Persia, Egypt, the Scythians of whom we nothing of their religious beliefs, the Greco/Roman gods never appear. Nor do they appear in Asia, Asia Minor, India, Polynesia and Pacifica, or what little we know of the Americas.

If you want to learn more, start with Joe Campbell. He is at least, very entertaining.
 
Elvira said:
And I forgot to add, at the very least, they are against forum rules...
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You didn't forget, except it was not plagiarism. Not by any definition. I can easily put forth that the link David supplied was plagiaristic. I had never read it previously. If I decide to hunt I can show the sources they repeated.
 
ArtemisBarca said:
Not denial... clarification..

Even according the the mainstream Christian Narrative that is the case..


They tell you flat out that all they had to do to go free was make a BS sacrifice to the emperor mean it or not..
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Right. And because you're a liberal, it's incomprehensible to you why anyone would have a problem with mandatory acceptance of politically convenient lies.
 
OldFatGuy said:
You didn't forget, except it was not plagiarism. Not by any definition. I can easily put forth that the link David supplied was plagiaristic. I had never read it previously. If I decide to hunt I can show the sources they repeated.
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So its ok because someone else did it too? Either way, it is not your original writing.
 
AmNat said:
Right. And because you're a liberal, it's incomprehensible to you why anyone would have a problem with mandatory acceptance of politically convenient lies.
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Exactly!!!

For one thing often the “dad/husband” spoke for the whole family... so not just his butt on the line..


I am not letting my wife and children be tortured to death for ANY reason...

No matter no matter what lie I must tell...


INCREDIBLY MORE SO, when the person threatening torture and execution. Is begging me to lie because he has no desire to murder and torture my family..


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devildavid said:
Are you bragging about it? Is unoriginal writing without crediting the source a point of pride?
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Get a grip. Your bp is rising unnecessarily. As Hemingway put it "Bill, Scotty and I lifted from each other often, played with the styles, not the substance, and the studios paid well for the scripts. We were young needed the money, displayed public enmity, thanked the Bard, and got drunk together. Never bothered to see any of those boring movies we churned out. Thank the gods for pseudonyms."
 
devildavid said:
So its ok because someone else did it too? Either way, it is not your original writing.
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How many times will you repeat yourself. Take a deep breath, slowly count back from a 100, relax.
 
devildavid said:
Your post lifted someone else's writing.
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And...

This is a cheese “debate politics forum” not a college term paper...

If you agree with someone’s point, so you use there words, because they said it better than you could have...


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OldFatGuy said:
Only the Greeks and Romans, maybe the Mycenaeans, but their religion is lost to us. Archeological historians tell us Rome was founded by survivors from Troy, who were as Greek as those who destroyed Troy. Not the mythic twins Romulus and Remus raised by wolves. Yet archeological digs in Rome, show it was built over an older city from a different civilization, about which we know next to nothing. From competing cultures in Persia, Egypt, the Scythians of whom we nothing of their religious beliefs, the Greco/Roman gods never appear. Nor do they appear in Asia, Asia Minor, India, Polynesia and Pacifica, or what little we know of the Americas.

If you want to learn more, start with Joe Campbell. He is at least, very entertaining.
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I was responding to someone claiming Christianity pre-dated paganism...

Lol


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