Are Catholics also Christians?

it's just me said:

The heretical religions such as the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons were never part of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and are not considered to be Christian.

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So it is, so it is!
Somebody should tell them so sometime!

Geoist said:

Yes, they are Christians. And yes, a lot of folks belonging to Protestant denominations will try to claim otherwise. I had/have a lot of those folks in my family.

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Don't tell that to a "true" christian.

In my "former life" I debated Christianity and gave up on it because, no matter who you talk to, their particular brand of "Christianity was the "true" one. This is why there are almost a hundred denominations and some claim thousands but I think that's a stretch.

What Christians do is use sleight of had in debates and trap the atheist, deist or agnostic into a debate about the bible and what certain passages mean and, like a liberal spinning what Trump said, claim that the passage really means this, because if you go back to verse such and such, Paul, Luke or Matthew said this, that or another thing. If THAT fails, they would trot out the translation from the Greek to really impress someone and claim that the Greek translation COULD have been such and such. This is done to ward off any further debate, like a leftist calling someone a racist or fascist, because they know that 99.9% of their opponents cannot respond to someone who tosses "Greek translations' at them.

All Christianity really means is that humans are basically selfish and feel entitled, a notion being fostered now by the NEW religion called government, where humans are entitled to a whole host of things never imagined before like free lunches, free daycare, free college. It's a ME, ME, ME world and this is really what Christianity boils down to. It says "ME" will be spared death if I believe X, Y or Z and all the others in Africa, the Middle east, aborigines, and non believers are screwed. It is all about ME and I won't admit I believe only to save my own hide, but that's why I do."

Rumpel said:

Are Catholics also Christians?

For me this is self-evident.

But not for those Bible-Christians, as we can see again and again and again.

Therefore ths poll here.

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Catholics are the only Christians...

The Catholic Church had a strangle hold on the theology for over a thousand years, got to decide what books were cannon AND established every inch of the base theology that Protestants would later adapt..

The way American Protestant Christians try to distance themselves from Catholicism is just sill as can be.


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ArtemisBarca said:

Catholics are the only Christians...

The Catholic Church had a strangle hold on the theology for over a thousand years, got to decide what books were cannon AND established every inch of the base theology that Protestants would later adapt..

The way American Protestant Christians try to distance themselves from Catholicism is just sill as can be.


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Another screwed up mess...

The Jewish historian Josephus, in answering opponents in his work Against Apion (I, 38-40 [8]) around the year 100 C.E., confirms that by then the canon of the Hebrew Scriptures had been fixed for a long time. He wrote: “We do not possess myriads of inconsistent books, conflicting with each other. Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty, and contain the record of all time. Of these, five are the books of Moses, comprising the laws and the traditional history from the birth of man down to the death of the lawgiver. . . . From the death of Moses until Artaxerxes, who succeeded Xerxes as king of Persia, the prophets subsequent to Moses wrote the history of the events of their own times in thirteen books. The remaining four books contain hymns to God and precepts for the conduct of human life.”

Canonicity of a book therefore does not rest in whole or in part on whether some council, committee, or community accepts or rejects it. The voice of such noninspired men is valuable only as witness to what God himself has already done through his accredited representatives.

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Canon — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

ArtemisBarca said:

The way American Protestant Christians try to distance themselves from Catholicism

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Why do they do that?
Why this constant hatred of anything Catholic?
In Europe those two groups work hand in hand.
Would the US Protestants prefer a 30 year's war?

Rumpel said:

I do not see what you mean by: "There were no Catholics".

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Before Protestantism, there were just "Christians". When the reformation came about, Christian sects drew their lines. "Catholics": original church pathway, through the Pope and "Protestants": I protest; the Bible and direct to worshiper religious practice.

It became sectarian governments, hence wares, based on who had the power: Henry the VIII vs the Pope.

Rumpel said:

So it is, so it is!
Somebody should tell them so sometime!

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Every chance I get.

Rumpel said:

Why do they do that?
Why this constant hatred of anything Catholic?
In Europe those two groups work hand in hand.
Would the US Protestants prefer a 30 year's war?

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I think it is all for self validation, probably due to self doubt when it all comes down too it..


The whole story is super supernatural and extraordinary, so you are inherently gonna wanna reach for validation wherever you can get it..

Fabricating a bad guy is a “low hanging fruit” way to lend yourself a little “no consequences” credibility..

If there are groups “elites” running around sacrificing babies to summon demons, then Christianity’s claims don’t seem quite so bad anymore..

I say quoted “no consequences” because there are no elites sacrificing babies. So way less risk pissing them off by publicly attacking them than if they were facing a legit wizard summoning demons.. lol


Which is what they are wanting credit for doing.


A more well know example would be burning witches...

Yes they face the consequences of pissing off the woman’s kith and kin, but they want to take credit for battling provoking Satan...



CONCERNING THE OP AND CATHOLICISM SPECIFICALLY, since that was kinda the umbrella issue...


Catholicism and Protestantism were in direct competition with each other for recruiting, donations , political power and crazy economic concerns..


No shock at all both sides wanted a clear line drawn.. wouldn’t want any of your money going to them after all..


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jet57 said:

Before Protestantism, there were just "Christians". When the reformation came about, Christian sects drew their lines. "Catholics": original church pathway, through the Pope and "Protestants": I protest; the Bible and direct to worshiper religious practice.

It became sectarian governments, hence wares, based on who had the power: Henry the VIII vs the Pope.

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Henry VIII was a hard core Catholic, so much so that the English Church retained Catholic rituals and beliefs. He didn't have a problem with the Catholic Church, his beef was with the Pope and it had nothing to do with theology.

ArtemisBarca said:

I think it is all for self validation, probably due to self doubt when it all comes down too it..


The whole story is super supernatural and extraordinary, so you are inherently gonna wanna reach for validation wherever you can get it..

Fabricating a bad guy is a “low hanging fruit” way to lend yourself a little “no consequences” credibility..

If there are groups “elites” running around sacrificing babies to summon demons, then Christianity’s claims don’t seem quite so bad anymore..

I say quoted “no consequences” because there are no elites sacrificing babies. So way less risk pissing them off by publicly attacking them than if they were facing a legit wizard summoning demons.. lol


Which is what they are wanting credit for doing.


A more well know example would be burning witches...

Yes they face the consequences of pissing off the woman’s kith and kin, but they want to take credit for battling provoking Satan...



CONCERNING THE OP AND CATHOLICISM SPECIFICALLY, since that was kinda the umbrella issue...


Catholicism and Protestantism were in direct competition with each other for recruiting, donations , political power and crazy economic concerns..


No shock at all both sides wanted a clear line drawn.. wouldn’t want any of your money going to them after all..

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Ever hear of Martin Luther?

Rumpel said:

Luther would say so, of course.
We Catholics would say: It is Dr. Martin Luther who has strayed a bit.
Well meaning - but he has destroyed the unity of THE CHURCH.

If only he could have reformed THE CHURCH from within.

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Hey, he tried like Hell!

The pompous upper powers in the universal Church wouldn't listen

it's just me said:

Henry VIII was a hard core Catholic, so much so that the English Church retained Catholic rituals and beliefs. He didn't have a problem with the Catholic Church, his beef was with the Pope and it had nothing to do with theology.

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It was his beef with the Pope that created The Church of England: the protestant church in England. The Protestant religion in England followed his death.

jet57 said:

It was his beef with the Pope that created The Church of England: the protestant church in England. The Protestant religion in England followed his death.

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The Protestant Episcopal church didn't come about until after the American revolution, but their theology was still very Catholic.

it's just me said:

Ever hear of Martin Luther?

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He nailed some criticisms up on a church door that were later adopted when forming Protestantism??


There are some really neat things concerning Luther..

His main contribution was the concept that anyone could interpret the Bible instead of just the church’s interpretation..

Which , while not all bad for sure, is responsible for all the bad that the smaller sects do... probably why he had no desire to split the church and would be horrified at the plethora of denominations that were birthed from his reformation..


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ArtemisBarca said:

He nailed some criticisms up on a church door

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This little detail is probaly legend.

But:

According to one account, Luther nailed his Ninety-five Theses to the door of All Saints' Church in Wittenberg on 31 October 1517. Scholars Walter Krämer, Götz Trenkler, Gerhard Ritter, and Gerhard Prause contend that the story of the posting on the door, even though it has settled as one of the pillars of history, has little foundation in truth.[36][37][38][39] The story is based on comments made by Luther's collaborator Philipp Melanchthon, though it is thought that he was not in Wittenberg at the time.[40]

The Latin Theses were printed in several locations in Germany in 1517. In January 1518 friends of Luther translated the Ninety-five Theses from Latin into German.[41] Within two weeks, copies of the theses had spread throughout Germany; within two months, they had spread throughout Europe.

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Martin Luther - Wikipedia

americanwoman said:

The church services I've been to are radically different from the Catholic to Christian churches I've been to. Christian churches are much more informal versus Catholics where you can go to any church and it's basically the same mass with little adjustments and a different homily. Such things as praying to the rosary and Mary, the Pope, and stations of the cross seem to be distinctly Catholic.

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You still make a difference between Catholics and Christians.
Did you not read anything that has been said here?
What you write is as insulting and as stupid as if somebody would make a ditinction between US-citizens and human beings.
As if you said things like: "Human beings are a lot wiser than US-citizens."

Exactly the same false logic.

A last time I try to explain it to you:

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS ONE OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCHES WORLDWIDE.

nota bene said:

In English, the "C" in "Catholic" is usually uncapitalized to "catholic," which means "universal." Just FYI.

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Far be it from me to dispute with my esteemed educator friend, but in all of the Creeds "Catholic" is always capitalized, at least in the BCP, if memory serves.

Just my $.02.

Rumpel said:

You still make a difference between Catholics and Christians.
Did you not read anything that has been said here?
What you write is as insulting and as stupid as if somebody would make a ditinction between US-citizens and human beings.
As if you said things like: "Human beings are a lot wiser than US-citizens."

Exactly the same false logic.

A last time I try to explain it to you:

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS ONE OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCHES WORLDWIDE.

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Don't get your panties in a twist because someone dares to go against your opinion.

americanwoman said:

because someone dares to go against your opinion.

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It is not a case of opinion, but of very simple facts.

I keep telling you that 2 + 2 = 4.

You repeat again and again that 2 +2 = 387464736463663

So I say to you: "Over and out."

Out.

To whom it may concern:

List of Christian denominations

The Catholic Church, or Roman Catholic Church, is composed of 24 autonomous sui iuris particular churches: the Latin Church and the 23 Eastern Catholic Churches. It considers itself the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church that Christ founded,[26] and which Saint Peter initiated along with the missionary work of Saint Paul and others. As such, the Roman Catholic Church does not consider itself a denomination, but rather considers itself pre-denominational, the original Church of Christ though it was once part of the Imperial Roman Church. Continuity is claimed based upon apostolic succession with the early Church.[27] The Roman Catholic population exceeds 1.3 billion as of 2016.[6]

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More about it: List of Christian denominations - Wikipedia

ArtemisBarca said:

He nailed some criticisms up on a church door that were later adopted when forming Protestantism??


There are some really neat things concerning Luther..

His main contribution was the concept that anyone could interpret the Bible instead of just the church’s interpretation..

Which , while not all bad for sure, is responsible for all the bad that the smaller sects do... probably why he had no desire to split the church and would be horrified at the plethora of denominations that were birthed from his reformation..


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And here I thought Martin Luther's main contribution was the concept that we were saved by Grace and not by works.

There seem to be people on the loose who equate "Protestant" with "Christian".
I wonder who are these people?
Are they just unbelievably stupid - with an education and an intelligence and a general knowlede of under zero?
Or are they malicious and fanatical?
Tertium non datur.

it's just me said:

The Protestant Episcopal church didn't come about until after the American revolution, but their theology was still very Catholic.

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Here; you need to read this Protestantism | Origin, Definition, History, Doctrines, & Facts | Britannica

It's a very long history and difficult to paraphrase. In the Isles it started with Henry III. Calvinism swept Scotland while the Western Isles and Highlands, save Argyll were Stuart Catholics.

Episcopalianism is the agreement between England and the Pope.

jet57 said:

Here; you need to read this Protestantism | Origin, Definition, History, Doctrines, & Facts | Britannica

It's a very long history and difficult to paraphrase. In the Isles it started with Henry III. Calvinism swept Scotland while the Western Isles and Highlands, save Argyll were Stuart Catholics.

Episcopalianism is the agreement between England and the Pope.

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I don't need to read anything, I know English Church history in greater depth than an internet article, and better than you, apparently.

Rumpel said:

Are Catholics also Christians?

For me this is self-evident.

But not for those Bible-Christians, as we can see again and again and again.

Therefore ths poll here.

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My wife certainly thinks so. However arguing over religion is like arguing over which color is best.