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Does archaeology Prove or Disprove stories in the Old Testament (Tanakh)?

Logicman said:
You conveniently ignore the 2nd Coming, when the remainder of the Messianic prophecies are expected to be fulfilled.



Yes, it does. Scriptural examples in the following link: Son of God in the Old Testament - Biblical Missiology



What is the name of the place in Daniel 12:2 where "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt?

Also, Judaism and Christianity both teach righteousness by faith in God (Genesis 15:6; Ephesians 2:8-9).
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That doesnt make them structurally the same. Israel is no longer under the yolk of Rome. Christianity is very different from judaism in several ways. The canonical scriptures and traditions are very different. Judeo christian is a modern concept, most likely invented to quell the historical antisemitism that christianity held for centuries. The concept of Jesus coming back to establish biblical rule over Israel is very contemptuous.
 
Elvira said:
I understand that is your opinion...
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Fact. Population dynamics and the geological record is not opinion. Inbreeding would have been required to repopulate the earth and inbreeding is not healthy for the offspring.
 
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bomberfox said:
True. A lot of people that take the world flood story as real tend to point to the many other flood myths but what they fail to grasp is several cultures can have a theme in common in their religious stories or literature. Dragons come to mind. Those types of myths exist the world over yet dragons never existed, also there is the fact that cultures borrow folk tales from others all the time and have done so all throughout history. Its likely the story of Noah borrowed from other flood myths like the epic of gilgamesh (even though gilgamesh’s arc was more rectangular in shape). I would argue that the preservation of farm animals would not have lasted long if we only went by the two by two method as that is just too few to maintain survivability.
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With the recent advent of agriculture, many farmers depended entirely upon it. Some kept animals, but composting was probably not a thing yet. Some farmers might have employed manure in agriculture, depending on how many thousands of years after the Agricultural Revolution (~14k ya) it takes place. Of those that employed manure, some might have attempted to save their cow and some chickens. This, given success, would start them on third base after the water receded.
 
bomberfox said:
Fact. Population dynamics and the geological record is not opinion.
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There is more evidence/facts in the Bible than you are willing to acknowledge...
 
Logicman said:
Show me your BEST ONE - 1, just ONE, example of a fictitious person, place, or event in the Gospels. Cite the pertinent scripture #'s and provide your evidence why it's fictitious.
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The Battle of Jericho by Joshua and the Hebrews - one problem of course is deciding when the Hebrews left Egypt, was it in the 13th century BCE or the 15th century?

Bronze Age Jericho fell in the 16th century around 1573 BCE when it was violently destroyed by an earthquake. Charred wood found at the site suggests that the remains of the city were burned. Buried food supplies also suggest that it was not captured following a siege. It remained unoccupied until the late 10th century or early 9th century BCE when it was rebuilt.

According to Biblical chronology, the Exodus took place in the 890th year before the destruction of the Temple by the Babylonians in 587 BCE. This was 1476 BCE, although some say 1446 BCE, depending on how one interprets the chronology in 1 Kings 6:1, Judges 11:26, and Ezekiel 40:1. After wandering in the Sinai for 40 years, that would put the attack on Jericho in 1406-1405 BCE, a time when Jericho was nothing but ruins - not a city.

Those known as "late daters" based their time of the battle at Jericho on the period of the reign of Ramesses II, 1279–1213 BCE, when the Exodus supposedly occurred. If the Exodus took place sometime in the middle of Ramasses reign (c. 1250-1230) the attack on Jericho would have happened when there was no city on the site - just ruins from an earlier time.
 
bomberfox said:
That doesnt make them structurally the same. Israel is no longer under the yolk of Rome. Christianity is very different from judaism in several ways. The canonical scriptures and traditions are very different. Judeo christian is a modern concept, most likely invented to quell the historical antisemitism that christianity held for centuries. The concept of Jesus coming back to establish biblical rule over Israel is very contemptuous.
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Whether you believe it or not, they both have the same God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Is the Doctrine of the Trinity Found in the Old Testament?
 
Somerville said:
The Battle of Jericho by Joshua and the Hebrews - one problem of course is deciding when the Hebrews left Egypt, was it in the 13th century BCE or the 15th century?

Bronze Age Jericho fell in the 16th century around 1573 BCE when it was violently destroyed by an earthquake. Charred wood found at the site suggests that the remains of the city were burned. Buried food supplies also suggest that it was not captured following a siege. It remained unoccupied until the late 10th century or early 9th century BCE when it was rebuilt.

According to Biblical chronology, the Exodus took place in the 890th year before the destruction of the Temple by the Babylonians in 587 BCE. This was 1476 BCE, although some say 1446 BCE, depending on how one interprets the chronology in 1 Kings 6:1, Judges 11:26, and Ezekiel 40:1. After wandering in the Sinai for 40 years, that would put the attack on Jericho in 1406-1405 BCE, a time when Jericho was nothing but ruins - not a city.

Those known as "late daters" based their time of the battle at Jericho on the period of the reign of Ramesses II, 1279–1213 BCE, when the Exodus supposedly occurred. If the Exodus took place sometime in the middle of Ramasses reign (c. 1250-1230) the attack on Jericho would have happened when there was no city on the site - just ruins from an earlier time.
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Nuts. Plus you butchered answering my question. It was about the Gospels.
 
Logicman said:
The Gospels are recorded history, not just a claim.
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BWAHAHAHAHA

According to you maybe..

No one respected in academia would EVER claim that..

NEVER..EVER...EVER..

The mainstream historical view is that MAYBE , and that is a slight maybe , Mark MIGHT date back to within 30 years of the death of Jesus..

All the other gospels just used Mark and a mysterious “Q” as a source..

No professional in the fields archeology or history would even claim the gospels are even claiming to have been written by or from the specific accounts of matthew mark Luke and John.


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ArtemisBarca said:
BWAHAHAHAHA

According to you maybe..

No one respected in academia would NEVER claim that..

NEVER..

The mainstream historical view is that MAYBE , and that is a slight maybe , Mark MIGHT date back to within 30 years of the death of Jesus..

All the other gospels just used Mark and a mysterious “Q” as a source..

No professional in the fields archeology or history would even claim the gospels are even claiming to have been written by or from the specific accounts of matthew mark Luke and John.


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I think you have a typo in the sentence -- No one respected in academia would NEVER claim that..
 
Logicman said:
Nuts. Plus you butchered answering my question. It was about the Gospels.
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You do realize an actual rebuttal requires you state a counterpoint.

A pithy comment where you are just saying “nah uh”, you in no way nailed it.. lol


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bomberfox said:
That doesnt make them structurally the same. Israel is no longer under the yolk of Rome. Christianity is very different from judaism in several ways. The canonical scriptures and traditions are very different. Judeo christian is a modern concept, most likely invented to quell the historical antisemitism that christianity held for centuries. The concept of Jesus coming back to establish biblical rule over Israel is very contemptuous.
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FOR SURE!!!


Can’t remember what started it, but I got on a kick watching jews debate messianic Christians (aka Christians pretending they are Jews to recruit) and was just shocked at the FUNDAMENTAL and STRUCTURAL differences..

A) watching those debates is SUPER to the point.. they are specifically debating the contradictions between Judaism and Christianity.. so no fodder to sift through.


B) The structural differences are just SOOOOO central to each religion. It is not hard to see that one has VERY little to do with the other..



For example...

1) Jews have no heaven or hell.. so did they get created at the crucifixion or what?!?!

2) Judaism is works>faith, not faith>works..

So the whole knock on Christianity where ,

“some Indian medicine man burns for eternity, while a child molester who found Jesus gets paradise”


does not exist for them..


Hell read the Noahtide laws which are the list of gods laws for gentiles AND THEY ARE SUPER REASONABLE!! Lol




CONCLUSION) It is pretty easy to trace the theology as it shifted from a cult that was not in power to a cult that ran the government too..

Somethings would never work if you didn’t run things..

For example.. how long does a missionary last if he rides up to a tribe of barbarians and says,

“My god is gonna kidnap your soul and torture it for all eternity if you don’t do what I tell you too... “

He would get his head taken off before he got off his horse..


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Logicman said:
Whether you believe it or not, they both have the same God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Is the Doctrine of the Trinity Found in the Old Testament?
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It sure is funny that only Christians see a prediction of Jesus in the OT.. lol

No critical scholars , Jews or atheist/agnostics never have..


That part is arguably one of the most ridiculous parts of Christianity..


Ok, so Jesus’s coming is literally the most important even in the history of the universe and god decides to hide that prediction by chopping it up and putting a little bit here, and a little bit more over there and just a smidgin in a couple other spots..


WHEN THE OT (GOD) SAYS REPEATEDLY AND UNAMBIGUOUSLY , in first person “from father to son” like 2,000 times...

“Obey my laws and never change them..”



!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Well I guess the OT might actually mention Jesus now that I think about it..

It does say more than once..

“If anyone ever comes to you and tells you I want to change my laws, they are lying.. obey my laws”.


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Logicman said:
No, you still don't have a clue. You think you do but you don't. Jesus (God) spoke about Moses, so I'll take his word over yours any day.

It also amuses me how you Bible mockers always love to go way back in the Bible to the days when there is a scarcity of information and then you ride that dog until it's dead from boredom.

You don't have that luxury with Jesus Christ - trying to deny him.
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So your Moses proof lies solely in the words of this Jesus guy who's existence can also be questioned. Certainly his being a god is questionable. And even more certainly his very words from 2000 years ago can be questioned.
 
jimbo said:
So your Moses proof lies solely in the words of this Jesus guy who's existence can also be questioned. Certainly his being a god is questionable. And even more certainly his very words from 2000 years ago can be questioned.
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I personally would add ,

“From a book that couldn’t get any of the claims that could still be tested today, right.”


If the Bible/Christianity is real is not a subjective question like “ is there a creator god”.


Specific religions make specific claims that can be tested, and the Bible fails every one miserably


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RAMOSS said:
That article is horrendously bad, makes bad claims, and whines a lot. Do you have something, you know, that isn't 95% insane?
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Are you really trying to tell me that “blue letter Bible.com” is not a valid source.....


BWAHAHAHAHA


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ArtemisBarca said:
Are you really trying to tell me that “blue letter Bible.com” is not a valid source.....


BWAHAHAHAHA


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Yes, I am saying that. The guy obviously is ignoring the grammar of the Hebrew.
 
ArtemisBarca said:
I think the definition of typo may have been more appropriate.. lol


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What you said was grammatically correct, what Somerville suggested is not...
 
ArtemisBarca said:
Sarcasm. Needs a font lol


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I am still saying it. It's totally out of context, both from a grammar point of view, a cultural point of view, and a logic point of view.
 
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