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Celibacy - in the Catholic Church - and elsewhere

Rumpel said:
Oh - is that so?

And God only calls men who do not want to marry?

Did God tell you so first hand?
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I don't know what God wants, but I know what the Church wants.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
No one said the majority of teachers were abusers, just the literature suggest they abuse at a far higher rate then the Catholic Church.

You cannot provide any evidence for your claim the Catholic Church is rife with sexual abuse in this case, because if schools are safe despite having many times more abuse then you cannot claim the Church is dangerous or uniquely guilty.

The report outright says less then 2 percent of allegations they could trace a result to result in termination and in 16 percent of those the offenders were working at other schools.

It’s well know this happens, there is a slang for it “passing the trash” and no one really knows how common it is.

NPR reported on this just last year. There’s been no substantive abuse allegations in the Catholic Church for years, this is ongoing in schools.

Without Warning System, Schools Often 'Pass The Trash' — And Expose Kids To Danger : NPR Ed : NPR


And you arguing this makes my point, you don’t care about Children, you just want to an ad hominem to throw at political opponents
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You claim that "the literature suggest" but provide nothing to back this up. If you only make a claim about something which can be verified, you should provide the verification for the rest of us to assess. Otherwise, it is just your opinion. So we know what you think the literature suggest, point us to the literature so we can assess its validity.
 
Angel said:
The priesthood is not a job, it's a vocation, a calling.
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The same could be said about other jobs, such as acting or performing music. It still meets the criteria of a job. People do make their living from it. Priests are not volunteers, but official members of the church organization. They are paid a salary. They have duties to perform.
 
Angel said:
The Church and its ministers are primarily concerned with spiritual matters, to answer your first bad.
As to your second, the Church and its ministers have seen only growth in the last thousand years, and your dire prediction does not seem credible.
By your third, only psychologically disturbed therapists can speak authoritatively about neuroses and psychoses and only sick doctors can minister to the sick. We know this is not so.
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The church is concerned with earthly matters, such as performing sacramental rituals for the congregants. There is no church without people to serve here on earth.
 
Rumpel said:
It is in the news:



More about it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...86c676-3a1e-11ea-bf30-ad313e4ec754_story.html

What do you think of this topic?

I am a Catholic, as I have said before.
And I am opposed to this enforced celibacy.
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Celibacy isn't very natural. From a scriptural perspective there is nothing in the texts which demands celibacy. Paul said it would be preferable, however he then added if not possible it was better to marry "than to burn with lust".

Anglicans are basically same as Catholics and allow for priests to marry, and there are far fewer incidents of sexual abuse in that sect than in the Catholic church. There are also some Catholic priests who left the Anglican church who were married, then became Catholic who still kept their wives , and they seem to do fine in the Catholic church.

In my opinion if the Catholic church allowed for married priests (heterosexual marriage), it would solve most of their problems. However I believe it comes down to $$$ withe the Catholic church not doing that, because then there would be the need to support spouses and children. But that being said, I still think the monetary cost of that would still be far less than the many millions paid out in damages over sexual abuse cases.

I have a friend who used to be a Catholic priest who left the church over what he said was systemic sexual abuses. His take on it was this: He said that for generations Catholic families who had sons and daughters who they knew or suspected were gay, they encouraged to enter the priesthood (both males and females) under the false belief that being in the priesthood---and being celibate would "save them" from their desires and from themselves. Well, that didn't work out to well, and all it does is draw a larger pool of frustrated confused homosexuals into the priesthood than in other sects.
 
devildavid said:
The church is concerned with earthly matters, such as performing sacramental rituals for the congregants. There is no church without people to serve here on earth.
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The Church is primarily concerned with spiritual matters. Please control this tendency to talk about what you don't know.
 
devildavid said:
The same could be said about other jobs, such as acting or performing music. It still meets the criteria of a job. People do make their living from it. Priests are not volunteers, but official members of the church organization. They are paid a salary. They have duties to perform.
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The priesthood is not a job, it's a vocation, a calling.
 
minnie616 said:
Off topic.

I wanted to become a medical doctor.

But life took a twist as if often does.

While in college I found the love of my of my life and he found me.

We have been happily married over 40 years and have 4 grown grown children.

I still do try to keep up to date regarding medical news.
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At my prep school, two years of Latin was required.

I'll be reciting the mantra "amo amas amat" from my grave!
 
Rumpel said:
Did not somebody said that before?
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It bore repeating as my interlocutor did not seem to grasp the point. As a fellow Catholic, surely you are in a position to acknowledge the point.
 
devildavid said:
You claim that "the literature suggest" but provide nothing to back this up. If you only make a claim about something which can be verified, you should provide the verification for the rest of us to assess. Otherwise, it is just your opinion. So we know what you think the literature suggest, point us to the literature so we can assess its validity.
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I posted the links right here.
 
Angel said:
The Church is primarily concerned with spiritual matters. Please control this tendency to talk about what you don't know.
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The church is primarily concerned with performing their duties for the people they serve, such as physically providing sacramental rituals. That is what they do every day. They interact with people very day in various ways and provide these things physically in person to congregants.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
I posted the links right here.
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Nothing in the link supports your claim about "the literature". Just two studies of limited scope. Now sure, probably the same is true of Catholic Church abuse as well. All we have to go by are the latest headlines. So any claims of literature stating anything are questionable. All I can say is that pointing out abuses in other areas of society does not lessen the seriousness of Church abuses, especially considering that the Church is expected to be a bastion of moral behavior.
 
Angel said:
It bore repeating as my interlocutor did not seem to grasp the point. As a fellow Catholic, surely you are in a position to acknowledge the point.
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I grasp the claim, but reject it. Joining the military or the police can be called a calling as well. But they are jobs as well.
 
devildavid said:
The priesthood is a job. Priests have duties to perform, just like the jobs in all other religions. The main purpose of the job is to serve their congregation and help them to get the most benefit they can from following their religion. Celibacy in no way helps them do this job better. It is no more important in doing their jobs than the clothes they are required to wear. That is how deep it really goes. Being celibate does not make anyone able to focus on higher things any better. It is irrelevant to that ability. Priests are no closer to god than the people they serve in their congregation. Someone who leaves the priesthood does not distance themselves from god. They are human beings and like all human beings can choose to focus on higher things or nor, regardless of their sexual activity. What the church says about celibacy is made up nonsense and not based at all on how human beings really are.
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Well I guess that settles it . . . :cool:
 
devildavid said:
The church is primarily concerned with performing their duties for the people they serve, such as physically providing sacramental rituals. That is what they do every day. They interact with people very day in various ways and provide these things physically in person to congregants.
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The Church is primarily concerned with spiritual matters. You don't know what you're talking about.
 
devildavid said:
I grasp the claim, but reject it. Joining the military or the police can be called a calling as well. But they are jobs as well.
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Look, sport. It doesn't matter what other things can be called. I'm telling you what the priesthood is within the Roman Catholic Church, of which I am and you are not a member. Enough already.
 
devildavid said:
The priesthood is a job. Priests have duties to perform, just like the jobs in all other religions. The main purpose of the job is to serve their congregation and help them to get the most benefit they can from following their religion. Celibacy in no way helps them do this job better. It is no more important in doing their jobs than the clothes they are required to wear. e.
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you must not be Catholic?

the church teaches it is NOT a job, it is a vocation.

And to say that celibacy does not help priests to stay focused on God and focused on getting people to Him (to Heaven)... in light of the fact that being married and having children IS a big job... that occupies SO MUCH of a person's time..

you do not make sense

so again, you must not be Catholic.. or are un-catechized
 
narrowroad said:
you must not be Catholic?

the church teaches it is NOT a job, it is a vocation.

And to say that celibacy does not help priests to stay focused on God and focused on getting people to Him (to Heaven)... in light of the fact that being married and having children IS a big job... that occupies SO MUCH of a person's time..

you do not make sense

so again, you must not be Catholic.. or are un-catechized
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Those pedophile priests and their protectors did not seem very focused
 
God gave us a sex drive. Some men decided to try to stop it.
 
CaughtInThe said:
God gave us a sex drive. Some men decided to try to stop it.
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stop it?

I say we need to kill it

I tend to believe something like 80% of marriages shouldn't even take place. People these days don't even try celibacy and then they scream out against it every chance they get.. but again, most child molesters are NOT priests. Only something like 1.8% of priests have been credibly accused of molesting a child. But MARRIED men... different story.. I heard that 1 in 4 girls is molested by the time she is 16 and 1 in 6 boys is..

I have been celibate a long time, struggled w/ that drive u speak of... well, it's like anything else you want to accomplish.. you have to be committed to it
 
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