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Celibacy - in the Catholic Church - and elsewhere

Rumpel

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Celibacy isn't natural. Celibacy probably has something to do with all the child molestations.

No it does not.

People who refrain from having sex with adults to whom they are attracted are not suddenly transformed into pedophiles.
 
It is in the news:



More about it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...86c676-3a1e-11ea-bf30-ad313e4ec754_story.html

What do you think of this topic?

I am a Catholic, as I have said before.
And I am opposed to this enforced celibacy.

I am a Catholic and have always felt very strongly that the Catholic Church should allow priests to marry. My spouse was of the Orthodox Russian Catholic Church and there was never a pastor appointed to any one of their churches unless he was married, that was a stipulation.

Funny thing, the pastor of his church was marched out (his head on a pike) by the entire congregation because he was making porn movies in the basement of his church-owned home. They threw everything he owned out onto the street including him.

A married priest would have a greater capacity to understand the difficulties that some of his confessors have within their marriages and with their children.
 
No it does not.

People who refrain from having sex with adults to whom they are attracted are not suddenly transformed into pedophiles.

Seems to me one problem is someone with a healthy sexuality doesn't commit to celibacy, and someone with a sexual interest in boys (not really pedophilia mostly) might join the clergy as a way to deal with it, as forced abstinence for them would be a good thing.

Certainly, a celibacy requirement changes the population of those willing to become priests, versus allowing married men/women to serve as priests.
 
...What do you think of this topic?

I am a Catholic, as I have said before.
And I am opposed to this enforced celibacy.
I think this topic testifies to the growing hegemony of secularism in the cultural conversation.

I am a Roman Catholic by baptism and rearing, and I was not in favor of abandoning the Latin Mass. Nor am I in favor of abandoning other traditions under pressure from an increasingly secularized culture, including the celibate priesthood.
 
Seems to me one problem is someone with a healthy sexuality doesn't commit to celibacy, and someone with a sexual interest in boys (not really pedophilia mostly) might join the clergy as a way to deal with it, as forced abstinence for them would be a good thing.

Certainly, a celibacy requirement changes the population of those willing to become priests, versus allowing married men/women to serve as priests.


Not really. Seminaries in the eastern tradition where priests can be married have a shortage of vocations as well.

Celibacy is healthy sexuality. You are called to be celibate outside of marriage. We live in a such a degenerate culture that people think this, but it is untrue. You can abstain from pornography and masturbation and non procreative sexual practices and be perfectly happy.
 
Nor am I in favor of abandoning other traditions under pressure from an increasingly secularized culture, including the celibate priesthood.

Celibacy for priests has not been a Catholic "tradition" right from the start. It was enforcecd around the year 1100 A. D. - and not for good reasons.
Anyway, the fact that something is a tradition does not automatically mean that it is also a good tradition.
 
Celibacy for priests has not been a Catholic "tradition" right from the start. It was enforcecd around the year 1100 A. D. - and not for good reasons.
Anyway, the fact that something is a tradition does not automatically mean that it is also a good tradition.
What is bad about the tradition of priestly celibacy?
 
Not really. Seminaries in the eastern tradition where priests can be married have a shortage of vocations as well.

I didn't mention shortages, just that the celibacy requirement changes the population of those willing to do the job. My cousin considered the priesthood, was weeks from committing, and ultimately didn't commit because he wanted a family, marriage. It's an n=1 I know but that cannot be unusual.

Celibacy is healthy sexuality. You are called to be celibate outside of marriage. We live in a such a degenerate culture that people think this, but it is untrue. You can abstain from pornography and masturbation and non procreative sexual practices and be perfectly happy.

The desire to have sex is natural and powerful. You can call it healthy, but agreeing to it for a lifetime is also a huge sacrifice. And I also made a mistake focusing on the sex, because being celibate is of course only part of it - it's the absence of intimate relationships with another person, and procreation, both powerful human urges.
 
There are virtually no Child molestations in the Catholic Church.

What term would you use to describe the acts between priests and boys underlying scandals across the Catholic church if not child molestation?

FWIW I deleted the butwhataboutism...
 
What term would you use to describe the acts between priests and boys underlying scandals across the Catholic church if not child molestation?

FWIW I deleted the butwhataboutism...

How many priests do that act?
And how many formerly innocent boys do they molest?
Why don't Catholics claim the priests are child molesters? Refusal by adult men and women to call the molesters homosexuals, happens why?
 
How many priests do that act?
And how many formerly innocent boys do they molest?
Why don't Catholics claim the priests are child molesters? Refusal by adult men and women to call the molesters homosexuals, happens why?

I'm objecting to the phrase, "There are virtually no Child molestations in the Catholic Church." The allegations involve THOUSANDS of priests, 10s of thousands of victims. If you want to argue that is consistent with "virtually no" cases, defend it.

I have no idea what your questions are supposed to prove, or what your point is in asking them. If you want the answers, Google is your friend. If you have a point, make it, don't ask me questions that have nothing to do with my point, and that you can answer for yourself.
 
There are virtually no Child molestations in the Catholic Church.

Are public schools teachers subject to celibacy vows?

Has Media Ignored Sex Abuse In School? - CBS News

There are hundreds of pedophile priests in Pennsylvania alone and the church had the policy to cover up their crimes. The catholic church is a criminal organization.
Hundreds of pedophile priests – including some with New York ties – abused and terrorized Pennsylvania children for decades, while complicit Catholic Church officials covered up their offenses or turned a blind eye, according to a damning new grand jury report released Tuesday.

Over the course of 70 years, the trusted, ordained men of God, more than 300 in all, raped and abused more than 1,000 boys and girls with impunity while serving an institution that routinely shuffled them from parish to parish, giving them license and enabling them to prey upon new victims.


The disturbing details were unearthed in a statewide grand jury report that was two years in the making, an ugly inventory described by officials as the biggest and most exhaustive ever undertaken by a U.S. state.

“The main thing was not to help children, but to avoid scandal,” the report says. “Priests were raping little boys and girls and the men of God who were responsible for them not only did nothing: They hid it all.”
Catholic church in Pennsylvania spent decades covering up for hundreds of pedophile priests, panel finds; several named had New York ties - New York Daily News

This bishop came out and said the being a pedophile is preferable than abortion and he hasn't be disciplined for it.

A Catholic priest in Rhode Island last week condemned lawmakers who supported the state's abortion bill and said they should be denied communion.
Now he is suggesting abortion is more heinous than pedophilia.
In an interview with CNN affiliate WJAR, the Rev. Richard Bucci of Sacred Heart Church said that while abuse is a "horrible thing," the comparison between pedophilia and abortion is unfair because he believes more children have been aborted than abused.
"We are not talking about any other moral issue, where some may make it a comparison between pedophilia and abortion," the West Warwick priest said in the interview, published Sunday. "Pedophilia doesn't kill anyone and this does."

Bucci told WJAR no one should be surprised by his stance: The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church holds that from the moment of conception, unborn children have the rights of a person.
 
The catholic church is a criminal organization.

Well well .... most organizations have criminal members.
But that does not make the whole organzisation a criminal organization as such.

If there is a criminal in a family, does that then make the whole family a criminal family?
 
Not really. Seminaries in the eastern tradition where priests can be married have a shortage of vocations as well.

Celibacy is healthy sexuality. You are called to be celibate outside of marriage. We live in a such a degenerate culture that people think this, but it is untrue. You can abstain from pornography and masturbation and non procreative sexual practices and be perfectly happy.

Called? By an imaginary being?
 
Well well .... most organizations have criminal members.
But that does not make the whole organzisation a criminal organization as such.

If there is a criminal in a family, does that then make the whole family a criminal family?

It is a criminal organization if they have a plan to cover up the sexual abuse instead of handing the offending priest or bishop over to secular authorities for prosecution.
 
I'm objecting to the phrase, "There are virtually no Child molestations in the Catholic Church." The allegations involve THOUSANDS of priests, 10s of thousands of victims. If you want to argue that is consistent with "virtually no" cases, defend it.

I have no idea what your questions are supposed to prove, or what your point is in asking them. If you want the answers, Google is your friend. If you have a point, make it, don't ask me questions that have nothing to do with my point, and that you can answer for yourself.

Double down by proving your amalgamation of numbers are accurate.
 
Double down by proving your amalgamation of numbers are accurate.

Database of Priests Accused of Sexual Abuse

"Files that could have documented the terrible deeds and named those responsible were destroyed, or not even created," German Cardinal Reinhard Marx said in a speech to a landmark Vatican summit on tackling paedophilia in
the clergy.

"Instead of the perpetrators, the victims were regulated and silence imposed on them. The stipulated procedures and processes for the prosecution of offences were deliberately not complied with, but instead cancelled or overridden," he said.

Marx was speaking on the third day of an unprecedented meeting of the world's top bishops which Pope Francis has called in an effort to get on top of a crisis that has dogged the Roman Catholic Church for decades.

The ongoing scandals have escalated into a crisis which has touched many countries across the globe, with recent cases affecting Chile, Germany and the US. Investigations have revealed that in many cases priests accused of assaulting minors were transferred to other parishes as bishops turned a blind eye to protect the Church's reputation.

"The rights of victims were effectively trampled underfoot, and left to the whims of individuals. These are all events that sharply contradict what the Church should stand for," Marx said.

The cardinal said it was essential that victims felt "that they can trust the system".

"There are no alternatives to traceability and transparency," he insisted, adding that attempts to cover-up scandals risked seriously undermining the Catholic Church's credibility.

https://www.thelocal.it/20190223/cardinal-admits-church-files-on-paedophile-priests-destroyed
 
It is a criminal organization if they have a plan to cover up the sexual abuse instead of handing the offending priest or bishop over to secular authorities for prosecution.

That evades his question since he did not claim the family did what you said. Note how you loaded the claims.
 
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