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Celibacy - in the Catholic Church - and elsewhere

Robertinfremont said:
That evades his question since he did not claim the family did what you said. Note how you loaded the claims.
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How did I load up the claim?

Do you deny the Vatican and the Catholic chich has tried to cover up the abuse, move the priests and silence or even blame the victims?
 
Lisa said:
How did I load up the claim?

Do you deny the Vatican and the Catholic chich has tried to cover up the abuse, move the priests and silence or even blame the victims?
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How, HOW

Do you recall falsely accusing me? (Forum, she accused me of threatening her life) She has yet to explain how I did this dastardly deed. Did she ever send me her address?

Reply by me, is not just no, HELL NO.

I am not Catholic and long ago lost interest in what they do. So are such priests Homosexuals?
 
Angel said:
I think this topic testifies to the growing hegemony of secularism in the cultural conversation.

I am a Roman Catholic by baptism and rearing, and I was not in favor of abandoning the Latin Mass. Nor am I in favor of abandoning other traditions under pressure from an increasingly secularized culture, including the celibate priesthood.
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It is *all of a piece*. Turning away from the true Mass to a pseudo-mass; people turning away from *authority* into the capriciousness of their own desires; turning from holy silence to grating noise.

The Traditional Ordinary of the Mass is an extraordinary document: a liturgy of ascent.

But today people say Huh? Ascent? To what?

The entire idea behind the sacrament of Holy Orders (becoming a priest) is that it represented a liberation to pursue higher orders of focus! It is the opposite of deprivation! It is an opportunity. (But only for certain types of course).
 
Lisa said:
How did I load up the claim?

Do you deny the Vatican and the Catholic chich has tried to cover up the abuse, move the priests and silence or even blame the victims?
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I posted the reason for my claim.

Deny? Deny what? I am not part of that religion.

REASON?

Originally Posted by Lisa View Post
It is a criminal organization if they have a plan to cover up the sexual abuse instead of handing the offending priest or bishop over to secular authorities for prosecution.
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That evades his question since he did not claim the family did what you said. Note how you loaded the claims.
 
Alizia Tyler said:
It is *all of a piece*. Turning away from the true Mass to a pseudo-mass; people turning away from *authority* into the capriciousness of their own desires; turning from holy silence to grating noise.

The Traditional Ordinary of the Mass is an extraordinary document: a liturgy of ascent.

But today people say Huh? Ascent? To what?

The entire idea behind the sacrament of Holy Orders (becoming a priest) is that it represented a liberation to pursue higher orders of focus! It is the opposite of deprivation! It is an opportunity. (But only for certain types of course).
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My religion does not have a MASS. We also have our publishing house. We publish in America, our Chrstian beliefs and have no translating way of talking to our members.

First we publish in many languages that still live and never in Latin.

When a student, we had a saying.

Latin is a dead language. It killed the original speakers and by golly, it is now killing me.
 
Lisa said:
It is a criminal organization if they have a plan to cover up the sexual abuse instead of handing the offending priest or bishop over to secular authorities for prosecution.
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107 (your own numbers) means millions of members are a criminal organization?
 
Robertinfremont said:
My religion does not have a MASS. We also have our publishing house. We publish in America, our Chrstian beliefs and have no translating way of talking to our members.

First we publish in many languages that still live and never in Latin.

When a student, we had a saying.

Latin is a dead language. It killed the original speakers and by golly, it is now killing me.
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What religion are you a member of?
 
Looking back:

In the earliest years of the church, the clergy were largely married men. C. K. Barrett points to 1 Cor 9:5 as clearly indicating that "apostles, like other Christians, have a right to be (and many of them are) married" and the right for their wife to be "maintained by the communities in which they [the apostles] are working."
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Clerical celibacy in the Catholic Church - Wikipedia

And that way it should have stayed. :)
 
Robertinfremont said:
107 (your own numbers) means millions of members are a criminal organization?
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This is just in the state of Pa.
The most recent total is 1,862.

But to state Attorney General Josh Shapiro, it’s more than a number.

They are 1,862 new stories of abuse. They are 1,862 new victims who came forward since he read a landmark grand jury report on Aug. 14, 2018, identifying 301 abusive priests in Pennsylvania and a cover-up that stretched from here to the Vatican. They are 1,862 survivors.

And those 1,862 people, along with the “thousands” of victims tallied by a state grand jury, are still waiting on state lawmakers to act.

Victims in Pennsylvania continue to come forward, calling a state hotline every day to report crimes against them.
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Robertinfremont said:
Latin is a dead language.
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Well, it isn't. :)

Gaudeamus igitur
Juvenes dum sumus.
Gaudeamus igitur
Juvenes dum sumus.
Post jucundam juventutem
Post molestam senectutem
Nos habebit humus.
Nos habebit humus.


And: See my signature :)
 
It sickens me what homosexuals do to children.

Again, going on your numbers, do you blame millions of members for the few homosexuals who commit crimes?
 
Rumpel said:
Well, it isn't. :)

Gaudeamus igitur
Juvenes dum sumus.
Gaudeamus igitur
Juvenes dum sumus.
Post jucundam juventutem
Post molestam senectutem
Nos habebit humus.
Nos habebit humus.


And: See my signature :)
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You sound like you are a Republican as I am.

I also believe your sig line.


For it is not for glory, nor riches, nor honors that we are fighting, but for freedom alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
 
Robertinfremont said:
My religion does not have a MASS. We also have our publishing house. We publish in America, our Chrstian beliefs and have no translating way of talking to our members.

First we publish in many languages that still live and never in Latin.

When a student, we had a saying.

Latin is a dead language. It killed the original speakers and by golly, it is now killing me.
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Latin isn't a dead language. About 70% of English vocabulary comes from Latin. You're using Latin words right now.
 
Irredentist said:
What makes you think they are homosexual?
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Pedophiles aren't gay.

In yet another article published in Psychological Reports, Cameron claimed to have reviewed data about sexual abuse by foster parents in Illinois and found that 34% of the perpetrators had abused a foster child of their own sex, that is, female-female or male-male abuse (Cameron, 2005). Not only did Cameron again make the fallacious claim that all male-male molestations are committed by homosexuals, he also made the same claim about female-female molestations. Once again, he had no data about the actual sexual orientations of the molesters.

Cameron continues to produce reports that essentially repeat the same inaccurate claims. Perhaps one of the best indicators of his diminished credibility in this area is that his work was not even cited in the 2004 FRC report discussed in detail above.


Conclusion

The empirical research does not show that gay or bisexual men are any more likely than heterosexual men to molest children. This is not to argue that homosexual and bisexual men never molest children. But there is no scientific basis for asserting that they are more likely than heterosexual men to do so. And, as explained above, many child molesters cannot be characterized as having an adult sexual orientation at all; they are fixated on children.
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Facts About Homosexuality and Child Molestation
 
Robertinfremont said:
It sickens me what homosexuals do to children.

Again, going on your numbers, do you blame millions of members for the few homosexuals who commit crimes?
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The problem with the Catholic Church was they as an institution, from the very, very top and on down, allowed those abuses to continue, buried them, moved the 'criminals' from church to church, etc. You know the stories. It's not that some small percentage did criminal acts - enough people in any organization and there will be 'criminals.' It's that the institutional response was to officially allow the crimes to continue.

You're a Mormon, so why are you gaslighting on behalf of the Catholic church? Weird...
 
JasperL said:
The problem with the Catholic Church was they as an institution, from the very, very top and on down, allowed those abuses to continue, buried them, moved the 'criminals' from church to church, etc. You know the stories. It's not that some small percentage did criminal acts - enough people in any organization and there will be 'criminals.' It's that the institutional response was to officially allow the crimes to continue.

You're a Mormon, so why are you gaslighting on behalf of the Catholic church? Weird...
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I hate injustice. It is not exactly me "gaslighting" for Catholics as a matter of being just.

I mentioned homosexuals yet you appear to be gaslighting for them. As if you think attacking millions of CAtholics is justice.
 
Lisa said:
Pedophiles aren't gay.



Facts About Homosexuality and Child Molestation
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How damned interesting you ignore that child molesters are indeed homosexuals.

Say are you gaslighting for homosexuals?

Let's read together an important story of a Catholic.
Close friend reveals why he turned former KGO Radio host Bernie Ward in to the FBI | ABC7 San Francisco | abc7news.com | abc7news.com

What I find so strange is this Democrat .... Catholic ... porno clown dealt in pedophilia porn.

Bernie was called the Lion of the Democrats, his reach nationwide was so vast.

Close friend reveals why he turned Ward in
By ABC7
Thursday, August 28, 2008
SAN FRANCISCO
We found the first mention of this close friend in the sentencing memo filed last week. Now, we can report who it is and we can tell you about a dramatic meeting in the halls of KGO Radio.

April 3rd, 2005 -- /*Bernie Ward*/ has just wrapped up his Sunday morning program, "God Talk," when he runs into an old friend outside the studio.

"Bernie walked out and just fell into my arms crying and said that his house had been raided by the FBI and that he was devastated," said child advocate Michael Pritchard.

Compare Roger Stone to the sentence of Bernie Ward.

On August 28, 2008, Judge Vaughn Walker sentenced Ward to seven years and three months in federal prison. Judge Walker agreed to Ward's request that he be allowed to serve his time in the Federal Correctional Institution, Lompoc, to which the U.S. Attorney raised no objection. Judge Walker commented that Ward's alleged sexual misconduct while serving as a priest may go to character, but that the events happened too long ago to be relevant to his sentencing decision. He also said that he was not convinced sending Ward to prison is the best way to deal with an individual with such problems and that "very little good has come out of all this." Ward told Judge Walker that he took full responsibility for his actions and said, "I regret my actions, the harm they caused my family, my friends, and this community."

With good behavior, Ward's sentence of 87 months was reduced by 15 percent, making him eligible for Supervised Release on December 19, 2014; there is no parole in the Federal system. On release from prison California's Megan's Law designated Ward a registered sex offender. For the remainder of his life Ward must in-person notify and register with local law enforcement about his residing or staying in its jurisdiction and locale.[22][23]

Ward served his sentence at the Federal Correctional Institution, Lompoc, a low-security federal prison in California.[24] He was released on December 19, 2014.[25]
 
Robertinfremont said:
I hate injustice. It is not exactly me "gaslighting" for Catholics as a matter of being just.

I mentioned homosexuals yet you appear to be gaslighting for them. As if you think attacking millions of CAtholics is justice.
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I don't know what any of that means. You're not making any sense. If you hate injustice, why are you pretending the problem with the abuse scandals wasn't really about the priests doing the 'crimes' but the massive, sustained, decades long coverup, from the very top, the VATICAN and on down, all the way through the top levels of many nations, during which the church as an institution officially blessed the abuse, sanctioned it, approved of it in reality, because the abusers were simply moved around to continue the abuse, and church leaders knew this was happening, thousands and thousands of perpetrators, abusing 10s or 100s of thousands of children, and the institution did NOTHING.

And the people I'm attacking aren't "Catholics" other than the abusers and those at the VERY TOP of the church institution that deliberately enabled them and the abuse, over decades. If you can't understand that, then we'll have to leave it here, because I can't do remedial instruction on DP.
 
JasperL said:
I don't know what any of that means. You're not making any sense. If you hate injustice, why are you pretending the problem with the abuse scandals wasn't really about the priests doing the 'crimes' but the massive, sustained, decades long coverup, from the very top, the VATICAN and on down, all the way through the top levels of many nations, during which the church as an institution officially blessed the abuse, sanctioned it, approved of it in reality, because the abusers were simply moved around to continue the abuse, and church leaders knew this was happening, thousands and thousands of perpetrators, abusing 10s or 100s of thousands of children, and the institution did NOTHING.
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I do not know what you are talking about at and to me since that you said has nothing to do with what I said;
 
Moonglow said:
Hey, today is opposite day
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No, all data shows abuse is more prevelant in the public school system then the Catholic Church.
 
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