[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

JustHanging · Feb 14, 2020

You seem to be projecting here.

I pointed out numerous cases of where it the bible disagrees with scientific discoveries. You would need links to reputable peer reviewed scientific journals showing that these scientific discoveries have been overturned, or else the bible appears to be, much like false prophets, relying on coincidence.

Matthew 7:15-20
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits."

Unless you can provide those links, this verse describes you, because your "fruits" are currently non-existent.

tosca1 · Feb 15, 2020

JustHanging said:
You seem to be projecting here.

I pointed out numerous cases of where it the bible disagrees with scientific discoveries. You would need links to reputable peer reviewed scientific journals showing that these scientific discoveries have been overturned, or else the bible appears to be, much like false prophets, relying on coincidence.

Matthew 7:15-20
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits."

Unless you can provide those links, this verse describes you, because your "fruits" are currently non-existent.

You can list all the statements in the Bible that you claim "disagree" with scientific discoveries - but, they're all irrelevant in this thread.
Mind you, you can always create your own thread for it. :shrug:

I've explained this to you several times already:

This thread is about Biblical statements/declarations that are supported or reaffirmed by science.

If that simple explanation doesn't make any sense to you - perhaps, you're really out of your league hanging out in this section.

Please, don't try to derail this thread.

tosca1 · Feb 15, 2020

SPRINGS IN THE OCEAN

Job 38
16 “Have you entered the springs of the sea?
Or have you walked in search of the depths?

Genesis 7
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

Proverbs 8
28 When He established the clouds above,
When He strengthened the fountains of the deep,

The Old Testament asserts that there are springs in the ocean.

One of the most profound and moving experiences in the life of the Old Testament patriarch Job must have been his encounter with a whirlwind. At a time when Job's undeserved suffering led him to a point of despair, God questioned Job from the whirlwind concerning his knowledge of Creation (see Job, Chapter 38).

God confirmed his sovereignty and justice by giving what must rank as the greatest science test of all time.

Among the most thought provoking of God's questions to Job was, "Have you entered into the springs of the sea?"

The word for "springs" is NEBEK (transliterated from Hebrew), an unusual word referring to the places where water issues or bursts out of the earth. Job must have pondered this question with amazement, for although he had seen many springs on the land, he had no experience with undersea springs.

Today we know why. The ocean is very deep; almost all the ocean floor is in total darkness; the pressure there is enormous. It would have been impossible for Job to have explored the "springs of the sea."

Springs of the Ocean | The Institute for Creation Research

THE DISCOVERY:

In 1977, scientists discovered hot springs at a depth of 2.5 km, on the Galapagos Rift (spreading ridge) off the coast of Ecuador. This exciting discovery was not really a surprise. Since the early 1970s, scientists had predicted that hot springs (geothermal vents) should be found at the active spreading centers along the mid-oceanic ridges, where magma, at temperatures over 1,000 °C, presumably was being erupted to form new oceanic crust. More exciting, because it was totally unexpected, was the discovery of abundant and unusual sea life -- giant tube worms, huge clams, and mussels -- that thrived around the hot springs.

Since 1977, other hot springs and associated sea life have been found at a number of sites along the mid-oceanic ridges, many on the East Pacific Rise.

Scientists discovered the hot-springs ecosystems with the help of Alvin, the world's first deep-sea submersible. Constructed in the early 1960s for the U.S. Navy, Alvin is a three-person, self-propelling capsule-like submarine nearly eight meters long.

Exploring the deep ocean floor [This Dynamic Earth, USGS]

The RISE Project (Rivera Submersible Experiments) was a 1979 international marine research project which mapped and investigated seafloor spreading in the Pacific Ocean, at the crest of the East Pacific Rise (EPR) at 21° north latitude.
Using a deep sea submersible (ALVIN) to search for hydrothermal activity at depths around 2600 meters, the project discovered a series of vents emitting dark mineral particles at extremely high temperatures which gave rise to the popular name, "black smokers".

American, French, and Mexican biologists, geologists, and geophysicists participated in both the RISE and RITA expeditions. The RISE expedition was directed by scientists at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, part of the University of California, San Diego.

The major finding of the RISE project was discovery of very hot hydrothermal fluids emanating from the sea floor from vents at separate locations along the crest of the rise.

Several vents of lower temperature emissions were found (<23°C). These warm vents were similar to those discovered at the Galapagos Spreading Center a few years earlier.[2] Hot vents and black smokers were not found at the Galapagos. Modeling of gravity data measured on the seafloor suggested that much of the upper ocean crust at 21°N was fractured and filled with warm water.

RISE project - Wikipedia

Discovered by science only in 1977 - roughly about 50 years ago -

and yet, God had spoke about the existence of these springs in the Old Testament.

tosca1 · Feb 15, 2020

Job 38

The Lord Speaks

38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2
“Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3
Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4
“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?

8
“Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb,
9
when I made the clouds its garment
and wrapped it in thick darkness,
10
when I fixed limits for it
and set its doors and bars in place,
11
when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther;
here is where your proud waves halt’?

12
“Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,
13
that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?
14
The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.
15
The wicked are denied their light,
and their upraised arm is broken.

16
“Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea
or walked in the recesses of the deep?
17
Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness?
18
Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?
Tell me, if you know all this.

19
“What is the way to the abode of light?
And where does darkness reside?
20
Can you take them to their places?
Do you know the paths to their dwellings?
21
Surely you know, for you were already born!
You have lived so many years!

22
“Have you entered the storehouses of the snow
or seen the storehouses of the hail,
23
which I reserve for times of trouble,
for days of war and battle?
24
What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed,
or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?
25
Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain,
and a path for the thunderstorm,
26
to water a land where no one lives,
an uninhabited desert,
27
to satisfy a desolate wasteland
and make it sprout with grass?
28
Does the rain have a father?
Who fathers the drops of dew?
29
From whose womb comes the ice?
Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens
30
when the waters become hard as stone,
when the surface of the deep is frozen?

31
“Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades?
Can you loosen Orion’s belt?
32
Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons
or lead out the Bear with its cubs?
33
Do you know the laws of the heavens?
Can you set up God’s dominion over the earth?

34
“Can you raise your voice to the clouds
and cover yourself with a flood of water?
35
Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?
Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’?
36
Who gives the ibis wisdom
or gives the rooster understanding?
37
Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?
Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens
38
when the dust becomes hard
and the clods of earth stick together?

39
“Do you hunt the prey for the lioness
and satisfy the hunger of the lions
40
when they crouch in their dens
or lie in wait in a thicket?
41
Who provides food for the raven
when its young cry out to God
and wander about for lack of food

Job 38 holds a wealth of information about the universe - that only THE CREATOR would know. However, I'll be posting only those
that have been reaffirmed by science.

Following God's own time-table,

science's discoveries are like an onion skin being painstakingly peeled off - slowly - leading the way to God.

Maybe, this is what science had been Designed to do.

tosca1 · Feb 16, 2020

For those new to this thread, or those who'd want to review the evidences/arguments that have been given,

Evidences are given in the following:

Posts # 2 (the universe has a beginning)
#4 (Inflationary Big Bang)

#14 (Infant Earth; frame of reference)
# 17 (Infant Earth; gases and clouds)
#20 (One ocean, one land - Pangaea)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

#23 (elements of Genesis creation story compare to science)
#24 (Non-marine eukaryotes)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

#43 (expanding universe – first written Big Bang model))
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

#85 (human body)
#87 (Genesis Enigma)
#90 (Francis Collins)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

#92 (reproduction)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

#108 (Pathfinder of the Seas)
#112 (The world is round)
https://www.debatepolitics.com/beli...and-theistic-evolution-11.html#post1071314659

#129 (present tense stretches)
#130 (Cursed Snake)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION
#149 and 150 and #174 (Jacob and Laban)
https://www.debatepolitics.com/beli...tic-evolution-15.html?posted=1#post1071322965

#169 (formation of continents)
#170 (counting stars)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

#176 (Hydrological Cycle)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

post#189 (Let land produce -animal body composition)

post #197 (no separate realm between science and Abrahamic God)
post #198 (Atoms)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

post #203 (Springs In The Ocean/Fountains of the great deep)
post #204 (God's time-table and science)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

tosca1 · Feb 16, 2020

Job 38

The Lord Speaks

38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2
“Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3
Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4
“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.

Scientists are baffled: What’s up with the universe?

November 1, 2019

The universe doesn’t look right. It suddenly looks . . . out of whack.

That is the strange message coming from astronomers and physicists, who are wondering whether they need to revise cosmic history.

The universe is unimaginably big, and it keeps getting bigger. But astronomers cannot agree on how quickly it is growing — and the more they study the problem, the more they disagree. Some scientists call this a “crisis” in cosmology.

A less dramatic term in circulation is “the Hubble Constant tension.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/scie...fc42e4-f353-11e9-8cf0-4cc99f74d127_story.html

Hubble Tension Headache: Clashing Measurements Make the Universe’s Expansion a Lingering Mystery

Researchers hoped new data would resolve the most contentious question in cosmology.
They were wrong

Hubble Tension Headache: Clashing Measurements Make the Universe's Expansion a Lingering Mystery - Scientific American

“Tension” increases with different measurement of Hubble constant

News Release from the W.M. Keck Observatories

24 October 2019 Astronomy Now

“Therein lies the crisis in cosmology,” says Fassnacht. “While the Hubble constant is constant everywhere in space at a given time, it is not constant in time. So, when we are comparing the Hubble constants that come out of various techniques, we are comparing the early universe (using distant observations) vs. the late, more modern part of the universe (using local, nearby observations).”

This suggests that either there is a problem with the CMB measurements, which the team says is unlikely, or the standard model of cosmology needs to be changed in some way using new physics to correct the discrepancy.

“Tension” increases with different measurement of Hubble constant – Astronomy Nowhttps://astronomynow.com/2019/10/24/tension-increases-with-ground-measurement-of-hubble-constant/https://astronomynow.com/2019/10/24/tension-increases-with-ground-measurement-of-hubble-constant/

tosca1 · Feb 16, 2020

Job 38

The Lord Speaks

38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2
“Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3
Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4
“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.

tosca1 · Feb 16, 2020

Job 38

The Lord Speaks

38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2
“Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3
Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4
“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.

An Open Letter to My Colleagues

James Tour

Mes frères, mes semblables, with these complexities in mind, how can we build the microsystem of a simple cell? Would we be able to build even the lipid bilayers?
These diminutive cellular microsystems—which are, in turn, composed of thousands of nanosystems—are beyond our comprehension. Yet we are led to believe that 3.8 billion years ago the requisite compounds could be found in some cave, or undersea vent, and somehow or other they assembled themselves into the first cell.

We synthetic chemists should state the obvious. The appearance of life on earth is a mystery.
We are nowhere near solving this problem. The proposals offered thus far to explain life’s origin make no scientific sense.

Beyond our planet, all the others that have been probed are lifeless, a result in accord with our chemical expectations. The laws of physics and chemistry’s Periodic Table are universal, suggesting that life based upon amino acids, nucleotides, saccharides and lipids is an anomaly. Life should not exist anywhere in our universe.

Life should not even exist on the surface of the earth.17

An Open Letter to My Colleagues | Articles | Inference: International Review of Science

tosca1 · Feb 16, 2020

Job 38

The Lord Speaks

38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2
“Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3
Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4
“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.

Oh boy, here we go!

The universe may be a billion years younger than we thought.
Scientists are scrambling to figure out why.

May 18, 2019

New research suggests that the Big Bang that birthed the cosmos occurred 12.5 billion years ago.

The universe may be a billion years younger than we thought. Scientists are scrambling to figure out why.

Study finds the universe might be 2 billion years younger

September 12, 2019

The universe is looking younger every day, it seems.

New calculations suggest the universe could be a couple billion years younger than scientists now estimate, and even younger than suggested by two other calculations published this year that trimmed hundreds of millions of years from the age of the cosmos.

The huge swings in scientists' estimates—even this new calculation could be off by billions of years—reflect different approaches to the tricky problem of figuring the universe's real age.

Study finds the universe might be 2 billion years younger

Pepto-bismol, anyone? :mrgreen:

JustHanging · Feb 16, 2020

tosca1 said:
This thread is about Biblical statements/declarations that are supported or reaffirmed by science.

And when the bible gets it wrong, and disagrees with science, that demonstrates that you're twisting the words in the bible to make them agree with what you're saying.

To say a tent is in any way comparable to an expanding universe is ridiculous.

JustHanging · Feb 16, 2020

tosca1 said:
Study finds the universe might be 2 billion years younger

Pepto-bismol, anyone? :mrgreen:

Article published in reputable peer reviewed journal, and not internet clickbait anyone?

From the link:

Jee and outside experts had big caveats for her number. She used only two gravitational lenses, which were all that were available, and so her margin of error is so large that it's possible the universe could be older than calculated, not dramatically younger.

:lamo

tosca1 · Feb 16, 2020

JustHanging said:
Article published in reputable peer reviewed journal, and not internet clickbait anyone?

From the link:

Jee and outside experts had big caveats for her number. She used only two gravitational lenses, which were all that were available, and so her margin of error is so large that it's possible the universe could be older than calculated, not dramatically younger.

:lamo

:roll:

You got issues with that one?

What about this other study?

Universe younger, seems to be expanding faster than astronomers thought

Nobel prize winner's calculation causing astronomers to re-think some universal concepts

Using NASA's Hubble Space Telescope, Johns Hopkins University astronomer Adam Riess concluded in this week's Astrophysical Journal that the figure is nine per cent higher than the previous calculation, which was based on studying leftovers from the Big Bang.

They find the conflict so confounding that they are talking about coming up with "new physics," incorporating perhaps some yet-to-be-discovered particle or other cosmic "fudge factors" like dark energy or dark matter.

"It's looking more and more like we're going to need something new to explain this," said Riess, who won the 2011 Nobel in physics.

NASA astrophysicist John Mather, another Nobel winner, said this leaves two obvious options: "One: we're making mistakes we can't find yet. Two: nature has something we can't find yet."

Universe younger, seems to be expanding faster than astronomers thought | CBC News

Job 38

The Lord Speaks

38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2
“Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3
Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4
“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.

The point:

They don't, do they?

JustHanging · Feb 17, 2020

tosca1 said:
:roll:

You got issues with that one?

What about this other study?

Universe younger, seems to be expanding faster than astronomers thought | CBC News

Job 38

The Lord Speaks

38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2
“Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3
Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4
“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?

The point:

They don't, do they?

The point:

No explanation or conclusion given. Just some data that will need to be examined.

Tell me, if you understand.
[/B]

Yes I do. But it's clear you don't, or you wouldn't have made your post.

tosca1 · Feb 17, 2020

JustHanging said:
[/B]

The point:

No explanation or conclusion given. Just some data that will need to be examined.

Yes I do. But it's clear you don't, or you wouldn't have made your post.

Job 38

The Lord Speaks

38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2
“Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3
Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4
“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?

Tell me, if you understand.

I wasn't referring to you with that question.

That seems like a fitting taunting question by God -

to scientists who give various natural speculations about the universe/life when they hadn't been there to witness or observe how it all began!

JustHanging · Feb 17, 2020

tosca1 said:
That seems like a fitting taunting question by God -
scientists who give various natural speculations about the universe/life when they hadn't been there to witness or observe how it all began!

Yep, Some people believe it's storybook characters like Harry Potter, Yahweh, or Santa Claus. I tend to think it's not. But hey, if you want to believe Harry Potter created the Universe and mankind, all the more power to ya.

tosca1 · Feb 17, 2020

Job 38

The Lord Speaks

38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2
“Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3
Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4
“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?

Stars singing? They make sounds?

NASA Finds Singing Stars

NASA has discovered a group of massive red stars that are actually humming to themselves.

The planet-hunting Kepler space telescope recently spotted sound waves emanating from the stars, the Wall Street Journal reports.
NASA recorded the tune, and played it recently at a press conference in Denmark. “It is a giant red concert,” says the astronomer who made the recording. “They have many different frequencies and overtones.”

NASA Finds Singing Stars

Scientists have turned light signals from distant stars into sound. By analysing the amount of hiss in the sound, they can work out the star's surface gravity and what stage it's at in its evolution from dwarf to red giant.

Logician Man · Feb 17, 2020

tosca1 said:
Job 38

The Lord Speaks

38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2
“Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3
Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4
“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?

Tell me, if you understand.

I wasn't referring to you with that question.

That seems like a fitting taunting question by God -

to scientists who give various natural speculations about the universe/life when they hadn't been there to witness or observe how it all began!

Rule #1 when discussing/debating any holy text. One doesn't use that holy text in a futile attempt to 'prove' the claims/content contained within any given holy text is actual truth. ( debating 101 )

tosca1 · Feb 17, 2020

Logician Man said:
Rule #1 when discussing/debating any holy text. One doesn't use that holy text in a futile attempt to 'prove' the claims/content contained within any given holy text is actual truth. ( debating 101 )

COME AGAIN?

I don't now where you copy/pasted that rule from.....but, it doesn't apply here! HAHAHAHAHA

Listen up, Logician man.....here are rules to follow when getting into a debate:

RULE #1: READ THE OP SO YOU'LL KNOW WHAT THE SUBJECT IS ALL ABOUT!

RULE #2: UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE READING. Very, Very important!
Without comprehension - you're a fish out of water!

Your responses won't make any sense! Like....right now.:lol:

Listen, you need a head shake.

This topic is about the Abrahamic God, and the significance of the Bible to Theistic Evolution. Therefore - the Holy Text (Bible) is a major part of this discussion.

Why wouldn't we use the Bible when Theistic Evolutionists are claiming
the Bible is in-lined with science?

That's what the topic is all about! :lamo

RULE #3: STICK TO THE TOPIC.

RULE #4: NEVER MIND YAPPING - STAY AS SILENT AS YOU CAN - IF YOU DON'T GET THE TOPIC!
(And judging by what you wrote, you don't get it.)

Don't flaunt ignorance. It isn't a pretty sight. :lol:

tosca1 · Feb 19, 2020

RECAP of evidences given so far:

Posts # 2 (the universe has a beginning)
#4 (Inflationary Big Bang)

#14 (Infant Earth; frame of reference)
# 17 (Infant Earth; gases and clouds)
#20 (One ocean, one land - Pangaea)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

#23 (elements of Genesis creation story compare to science)
#24 (Non-marine eukaryotes)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

#43 (expanding universe – first written Big Bang model))
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

#85 (human body)
#87 (Genesis Enigma)
#90 (Francis Collins)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

#92 (reproduction)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

#108 (Pathfinder of the Seas)
#112 (The world is round)
https://www.debatepolitics.com/beli...and-theistic-evolution-11.html#post1071314659

#129 (present tense stretches)
#130 (Cursed Snake)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION
#149 and 150 and #174 (Jacob and Laban)
https://www.debatepolitics.com/beli...tic-evolution-15.html?posted=1#post1071322965

#169 (formation of continents)
#170 (counting stars)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

#176 (Hydrological Cycle)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

post#189 (Let land produce -animal body composition)

post #197 (no separate realm between science and Abrahamic God)
post #198 (Atoms)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

post #203 (Springs In The Ocean/Fountains of the great deep)
post #204 (God's time-table and science)
[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

post #205 (RECAP - list of evidences)
post #206 (Job 38/Hubble Constant Tension)
post #207 (Video – Nothing Made Everything – an atheist nightmare)
post #208 (James Tour Open Letter to Colleagues)
post #209 (Universe seems to be getting younger!)
https://www.debatepolitics.com/beli...and-theistic-evolution-21.html#post1071359286

Post #216 (Singing Stars)

tosca1 · Feb 19, 2020

Orion and Arcturus

Job 38

31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

In the verse, God seems to challenge Job's ability to “bind the sweet influences of Pleiades” - as if saying, “Job, do you think you can keep Pleiades together?” Pleiades (aka Seven Sisters), is an open star cluster in the constelation of Taurus.

In the verse, God seems to challenge if Job can “loose the bands of Orion.” This refers to the “belt” of Orion.

What Are the Stars in Orion’s Belt?

Orion dominates the winter sky in the northern hemisphere. Its large size and collection of bright stars — such as Betelgeuse at the shoulder, Rigel below the belt, and the three stars in the belt — make it easy to spot, even for beginning stargazers.

The three stars in the belt are Mintaka, Alnilam and Alnitak

What Are the Stars in Orion's Belt? - Universe Today

Runaway Star

Arcturus appears to shift its "fixed" position in the sky much more rapidly than most of the other bright stars (the sole exception is Alpha Centauri). Arcturus appears to whiz through space at a speed of some 90 miles per second in the direction of the constellation Virgo. From Earth, it appears to move toward Virgo by about 1 degree (which is about twice the apparent width of a full moon) over a time span of about 1,500 years. We are thus very fortunate to live at a time when the distance separating Arcturus and Earth's solar system is nearly at its minimum. It will continue to approach the Earth for several thousand years more, but then it will pass us as it continues to move toward Virgo, and its distance from us will then begin to steadily increase.

Spot These Wandering Stars In June's Night Sky | Space

or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

Arcturus' sons must be the group of 52 stars that move with it.

Arcturus is thought to be an old-disk star, and appears to be moving with a group of 52 other such stars, known as the Arcturus stream.

Arcturus - Wikipedia

JustHanging · Feb 19, 2020

tosca1 said:
COME AGAIN?

I don't now where you copy/pasted that rule from.....but, it doesn't apply here! HAHAHAHAHA

Listen up, Logician man.....here are rules to follow when getting into a debate:

RULE #1: READ THE OP SO YOU'LL KNOW WHAT THE SUBJECT IS ALL ABOUT!

RULE #2: UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE READING. Very, Very important!
Without comprehension - you're a fish out of water!

Your responses won't make any sense! Like....right now.:lol:

Listen, you need a head shake.

This topic is about the Abrahamic God, and the significance of the Bible to Theistic Evolution. Therefore - the Holy Text (Bible) is a major part of this discussion.

Why wouldn't we use the Bible when Theistic Evolutionists are claiming
the Bible is in-lined with science?

That's what the topic is all about! :lamo

RULE #3: STICK TO THE TOPIC.

RULE #4: NEVER MIND YAPPING - STAY AS SILENT AS YOU CAN - IF YOU DON'T GET THE TOPIC!
(And judging by what you wrote, you don't get it.)

Don't flaunt ignorance. It isn't a pretty sight. :lol:

Too much crayon. It's obvious you can't provide a coherent response, and using crayon is NOT helping your argument.

Think about this: What group do you typically think of when it comes to people who use crayon to express themselves? That's who you're associated with when you post like this.

zyzygy · Feb 19, 2020

JustHanging said:
Too much crayon. It's obvious you can't provide a coherent response, and using crayon is NOT helping your argument.

Think about this: What group do you typically think of when it comes to people who use crayon to express themselves? That's who you're associated with when you post like this.

tosca's posts seem to come from a six-year-old.

bluesmoke · Feb 23, 2020

tosca1 said:
AND?

What's that got to do with this topic? :lol:
Take a deep breath and look what this thread is all about!

It's about THEISTIC EVOLUTIONISTS!

Do you even understand what they are?

They are.......EVOLUTIONISTS!

What are you babbling about?

God's word is not of science. It is of faith. Faith is not scientific. All you have to do is believe as no facts are required. In fact, facts are antithetical to faith except to accept the Bible as the word of God. You might as well have Jews for Christ. A Jew that believes in Christ is not a Jew. Someone that relies on science to verify God's word has no faith. You don't get that.

tosca1 · Feb 23, 2020

bluesmoke said:
God's word is not of science. It is of faith. Faith is not scientific. All you have to do is believe as no facts are required.

No, the Bible isn't meant to be a scientific book, nor does it challenge science to prove it right or wrong.
But having said that, the fact remains that there are verses in the Bible that are reaffirmed by science. Big difference.

In fact, facts are antithetical to faith except to accept the Bible as the word of God.

I wouldn't say it's antithetical to Christianity/Abrahamic religion to point out that, "hey, imagine that! Science confirmed what is stated in the Bible!"
We see that certain statements are not mere figures of speech.

I'm discussing with mostly non-believers.
To use science as I'm doing on this thread and lots of other threads, does not mean I can't simply accept the Bible as the Word of God.

Using science is in fact - imho - showing that the Bible is indeed the Word of God!
I'm simply using the medium (science) that non-believers tend to rely on as authoritative.
I'm simply meeting them on their own ground.

You might as well have Jews for Christ. A Jew that believes in Christ is not a Jew.

Jesus Christ is a Jew. Almost if not all apostles were Jews!
There are Jews who believes in Christ - they call themselves "Jews for Christ."
Who are you to say they aren't Jews? Do you have an idea what a Jew is?

FYI: here's the definition of a Jew (Merriam)

a person belonging to a continuation through descent or conversion of the ancient Jewish people
An Israelite
A member of the tribe of Judah

Furthermore, to reason is part of APOLOGETICS! To use science is part of APOLOGETICS!
Those were given to us by God! After all, we're given critical thinking that we may discern.....and be able to defend the faith!

So....who sez we can't use science? Who sez we can't use what's been given by God? You? :lol:

Someone that relies on science to verify God's word has no faith. You don't get that.

You should read and understand the OP.

That way, you don't just burst into the scene - giving irrelevant and ignorant statements - and get things blown on your face.

That's what the OP is for - it gives the premise - lays out where all these are coming from.

That's something you very obviously don't get.
Actually, based from your own post - there are several things you don't get. :shrug:

tosca1 · Feb 23, 2020

bluesmoke said:
God's word is not of science. It is of faith. Faith is not scientific. All you have to do is believe as no facts are required. In fact, facts are antithetical to faith except to accept the Bible as the word of God. You might as well have Jews for Christ. A Jew that believes in Christ is not a Jew. Someone that relies on science to verify God's word has no faith. You don't get that.

Btw, did you actually read what you quoted above?

What's your babbling has to do with it? :mrgreen:

[W:94]THE ABRAHAMIC GOD and THEISTIC EVOLUTION

Five Card Stud