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Speaking in Tongues

devildavid said:
What you stated was a command, not an opinion.
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Whatever. Have it your way. Is there anything else about which I'd comment that you'd to comment on and explain to me? :roll:
 
Rumpel said:
A command may also be an opinion - or show one's opinion.
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Clearly, you aren't allowed to have an opinion. Just agree with him and move on. He's right and will always be right; you not so much.
 
Rumpel said:
Once again: THEN and NOW

THEN: The apostles preached to an international crowd - and EVERYBODY understood EVERTHING.
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In the Roman East, I don't find this all that extraordinary. The East had been Hellenized centuries earlier and Iudea was on a major trade route. Most people in the region were bilingual and even the Roman Provincial coinage was issued with Greek inscriptions. The Prutah of Pilatus are prime examples.

NOW: One person stands up in a crowd and babbles utter nonsense and gibberish - and NOBODY understands ANYTHING.
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Some even roll around on the floor-it's a strange ritual indeed.

And this person is either mentally ill or a fraud. The Holy Spirit has NOTHING to do with this.
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The only 'spirit' in the room is probably in hipflasks. Seriously, I believe many do it just to be 'in with the crowd', as some charismatic congregations have a way of making one feel 'left out'. It didn't bother me, as I was only there to observe, but the look on some faces spoke volumes.
 
NWO_Spook said:
Seriously, I believe many do it just to be 'in with the crowd', as some charismatic congregations have a way of making one feel 'left out'.
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That's my idea as well.

I you do not roll on the floor and bark like an idiot, then the others think that you are not a good Christian! :cool:
 
Rumpel said:
That's my idea as well.

I you do not roll on the floor and bark like an idiot, then the others think that you are not a good Christian! :cool:
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I agree. I noted people looking around with a somewhat anxious expression watching others speak in tongues and then they started doing it as well. They appeared to evince a fear of not performing the ritual, and I wondered that if they couldn't/wouldn't perform this rite that they may be ostracised, or they feared they may be criticised/ostracised.
 
I repeat:

If you do not roll on the floor and bark like an idiot, then the others think that you are not a good Christian!

(Sorry, I forgot the f in "if" in my posting above)
 
NWO_Spook said:
I agree. I noted people looking around with a somewhat anxious expression watching others speak in tongues and then they started doing it as well. They appeared to evince a fear of not performing the ritual, and I wondered that if they couldn't/wouldn't perform this rite that they may be ostracised, or they feared they may be criticised/ostracised.
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I can imagine!
So it becomes a matter of status, who can speak the most ultimate rubbish. :cool:
 
And this showing of by allegedly "speaking in tongues" - is it not also another way of saying: "I am holier than thou?" :cool:
 
As a child I liked the Whitsun Feast - called Pfingsten in German.

So when I heard about pentecostal churches - called Pfingstler in German - i liked the name.

Only later i got to know what utter rubbish these "churches" practise.

In my mind they are a disgrace.
 
Rumpel said:
And what is your opinion about this topic?
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Religious euphoria had been around for thousands of years before the advent of Christianity. The utterance of incoherent sounds under the influence of religious ecstasy is an effect common to many religions. Take for example the Pythia - the priestess of Apollo at Delphi. The "gift of tongues" (known in Greek as "glossolalia") was common during the ecstatic religious frenzies demonstrated by many of the Israelite prophets during the times of the judges and kings. Even the term "to prophecy" has its roots in the demonstrating of such babbling euphoric fits during the early days of the Bible. Even King Saul had succumbed to the euphoria when he "prophesied" among the prophets (prophets "prophecy" among each other; they were originally known to appear as babbling lunatics).

As to the apostles, they had boasted that "speaking in tongues" was "evidence" that the "holy spirit" had "filled them", because people (at their Pentecost harvest celebration) of "every nation under heaven" could "understand" them. What the author of the Book of Acts failed to mention however is that "every nation under heaven" were considered only those nations under the Roman Empire - and that Greek was the primary learned-language throughout the entire realm. That's the equivalent of a bunch of people going abroad, and "speaking in tongues" in English nowadays. In other words, not as big of a deal as the author makes it out to be.


OM
 
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Rumpel said:
Once again: THEN and NOW

THEN: The apostles preached to an international crowd - and EVERYBODY understood EVERTHING.
NOW: One person stands up in a crowd and babbles utter nonsense and gibberish - and NOBODY understands ANYTHING.
And this person is either mentally ill or a fraud. The Holy Spirit has NOTHING to do with this.
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Excellent point. The original narrative had "everyone understanding everything being said". Nowadays it's just religious people babbling incoherently, and nobody around them knows what they're saying. Huge difference, and a prime indicator that the modern "gift of tongues" is just BS.


OM
 
Omega Man said:
As to the apostles, they had boasted that "speaking in tongues" was "evidence" that the "holy spirit" had "filled them", because people (at their Pentecost harvest celebration) of "every nation under heaven" could "understand" them. What the author of the Book of Acts failed to mention however is that "every nation under heaven" were considered only those nations under the Roman Empire - and that Greek was the primary learned-language throughout the entire realm. That's the equivalent of a bunch of people going abroad, and "speaking in tongues" in English nowadays. In other words, not as big of a deal as the author makes it out to be.
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Then that would have been just a trickery of definition?
 
Omega Man said:
The original narrative had "everyone understanding everything being said". Nowadays it's just religious people babbling incoherently, and nobody around them knows what they're saying. Huge difference, and a prime indicator that the modern "gift of tongues" is just BS.
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I agree completely! :peace
 
d0gbreath said:
...we had all raised our hands to the Heavens and held them up there for ten minutes or so, the preacher came to me and said "Do you feel that tingling sensation in your fingers?
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I would have informed the preacher that it was obviously on account of the lack of blood as it exited down my raised arms after such a long time. But hey, leave it to a preacher to give "God" (whatever it is) credit.


OM
 
nwo_spook said:
in the roman east, i don't find this all that extraordinary. The east had been hellenized centuries earlier and iudea was on a major trade route. Most people in the region were bilingual and even the roman provincial coinage was issued with greek inscriptions. the prutah of pilatus are prime examples.



Some even roll around on the floor-it's a strange ritual indeed.



The only 'spirit' in the room is probably in hipflasks. Seriously, i believe many do it just to be 'in with the crowd', as some charismatic congregations have a way of making one feel 'left out'. It didn't bother me, as i was only there to observe, but the look on some faces spoke volumes.
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Bingo.


OM
 
Rumpel said:
Then that would have been just a trickery of definition?
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They were selling an ideology, and resorted to a rather poor example of intellectual sleight-of-hand.


OM
 
Omega Man said:
They were selling an ideology, and resorted to a rather poor example of intellectual sleight-of-hand.
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sleight-of-hand - that's the word for it!
 
Rumpel said:
What Wiki says:



Glossolalia - Wikipedia

Now my questions:

Have you ever heard people speaking in tongues?
Did you ever speak in tongues yourself?

And what is your opinion about this topic?
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Yes.
Yes.
Not something I usually talk about. I may consider doing so but don’t know what the profit would be.
 
Rumpel said:
What Wiki says:



Glossolalia - Wikipedia

Now my questions:

Have you ever heard people speaking in tongues?
Did you ever speak in tongues yourself?

And what is your opinion about this topic?
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I always wondered why the holy spirit never hit these people outside of Church.

I don't see them in the supermarkets bursting into a fit of divine gibberish.
 
Rumpel said:
What Wiki says:

Glossolalia - Wikipedia

Now my questions:

Have you ever heard people speaking in tongues?
Did you ever speak in tongues yourself?

And what is your opinion about this topic?
Click to expand...
My babbling usually renders obscene thoughts, but it's usually saying something, sometimes many things at once.

I'll babble on the dish line and then call out in a Monty Python voice, "Is there an interpreter present? How can we be speaking in tongues if there is no interpreter?"

I met a guy could read out of the Bible, stuff I know isn't in there. Too much acid I guess, there was another guy when tripping would lay down a dollar and get change for a hundred.
 
Exquisitor said:
My babbling usually renders obscene thoughts, but it's usually saying something, sometimes many things at once.

I'll babble on the dish line and then call out in a Monty Python voice, "Is there an interpreter present? How can we be speaking in tongues if there is no interpreter?"

I met a guy could read out of the Bible, stuff I know isn't in there. Too much acid I guess, there was another guy when tripping would lay down a dollar and get change for a hundred.
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my experience is with different churches and i still attend pentacostal, reform, baptist or whatever churches and yes they all believe differently. some are opposed to the speaking in tongues and others like pentacostal feature this activity.

personally i do not speak in tongues but believe the Bible supports that activity; Paul said that he spoke in tongues more than you all, so that should settle it, me thinks.

also i believe that Tongues can be faked, a sincere person encouraged me to learn how to speak in Tongues. so i tried, she had me repeat some Hebrew words repeatedly and from memory. when i finished the session she declared i had the 'gift of tongues'. that to me i believe to be fake, repeating another language isn't the gift IMHO.

yes they did speak in actual foreign languages in Acts 2, this was miraculous and there is no reason such a gift like this could not be used today. the Gospels tell us to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations. well kinda hard to do if you don't know the language huh? well there you go.

another thing is that speaking in tongues should involve an interpreter if done publicly, if not the Apostle Paul says to sit down and be quiet. this is all christianity 101, but you have to do your own study on various things as some churches will not give the whole council of God, so it is up to you to find out.

this morning i checked with You.com AI for an opinion which is fairly comprehensive....

The Bible does speak about tongues other than speaking in foreign languages. While there are instances in the Bible where speaking in tongues refers to speaking in foreign languages, there are also other passages that suggest tongues can refer to a different kind of language or communication.

Glossolalia and Unknown Languages​

In some cases, speaking in tongues is described as glossolalia, which is the practice of speaking in a language that is unknown to the speaker. This is often associated with spiritual or ecstatic experiences. In the book of Acts, for example, the disciples of Jesus spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost, and it was described as a supernatural phenomenon where they spoke in languages they had not learned (Acts 2:1-4).

The Gift of Tongues​

In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul also discusses the gift of tongues in his letters, particularly in 1 Corinthians 12-14. In these passages, Paul refers to speaking in tongues as a spiritual gift given by the Holy Spirit. He distinguishes between speaking in tongues for personal edification and speaking in tongues for the edification of the church. Paul emphasizes the need for interpretation when speaking in tongues in a public setting so that others can understand and be edified.
 
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