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At What Age Do You Think....

Logician Man

Logician Man

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a child/young adult, is actually mature, educated, intelligent enough to fully understand the data content of a holy text, and make personal, informed, rational decisions as to whether that holy text is actual, or not truth ?
 
Depends, my children were hearing God's Word before they were born...I would read to them and they were at my Christian meetings, of course, right along with me...:2razz:...literally from infancy, I was teaching them...
 
Elvira said:
Depends, my children were hearing God's Word before they were born...I would read to them and they were at my Christian meetings, of course, right along with me...:2razz:...literally from infancy, I was teaching them...
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Agreed on the 'depends', E. The OP is based on the assumption the individual is in no way mentally diminished, or otherwise cognitively impaired.
 
Logician Man said:
a child/young adult, is actually mature, educated, intelligent enough to fully understand the data content of a holy text, and make personal, informed, rational decisions as to whether that holy text is actual truth ?
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It depends.

Some kids are pretty stupid, while others are very wise beyond their age.

I personally rejected organized religion at around 15 and became more aligned with a spiritual naturalism/pantheism.
 
MovingPictures said:
It depends.

Some kids are pretty stupid, while others are very wise beyond their age.

I personally rejected organized religion at around 15 and became more aligned with a spiritual naturalism/pantheism.
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I was skeptical at 6, maybe earlier. I would offer, IMO, the 'average' individual isn't prepared to make personal, unbiased, uninfluenced decisions until the age of 16; possibly/probably later. They should also be educated in various religious doctrines, so they can process those religious teachings also, and consider their content/message.
 
Logician Man said:
Agreed on the 'depends', E. The OP is based on the assumption the individual is in no way mentally diminished, or otherwise cognitively impaired.
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My children reached the teenage years, the rebellious years, and one by one, told me they did not want to go to the meetings anymore...I didn't force them...I knew that would only push them farther away...I knew they would have to find out for themselves what the world has to offer...and they did...my son went in the army, served in Iraq, my daughter moved in with her boyfriend...they were still my children, though and I never stopped praying that someday they would come back to Jehovah...

My son came back from Iraq with PTSD, loss of hearing, and numerous other medical problems...he began to realize, all on his own, that he did indeed need Jehovah...he began studying the Bible without me even knowing about it, he and his girlfriend, who lived together...they are both baptized Witnesses now, serving Jehovah together as husband and wife...

My daughter's boyfriend, ended up getting drunk one night and shooting himself right in front of her...I thought that would be the end of her, also...but it wasn't...she turned to Jehovah, all on her own, to get through that dreadful time...and she did...she is now a baptized Witness pioneer, working part time, and spending 72 hours a month in the full-time preaching work...I believe with all my heart, if wasn't for Jehovah, she would not be here, today...she would tell you the same...

My kids made their own decisions...
 
Elvira said:
My children reached the teenage years, the rebellious years, and one by one, told me they did not want to go to the meetings anymore...I didn't force them...I knew that would only push them farther away...I knew they would have to find out for themselves what the world has to offer...and they did...my son went in the army, served in Iraq, my daughter moved in with her boyfriend...they were still my children, though and I never stopped praying that someday they would come back to Jehovah...

My son came back from Iraq with PTSD, loss of hearing, and numerous other medical problems...he began to realize, all on his own, that he did indeed need Jehovah...he began studying the Bible without me even knowing about it, he and his girlfriend, who lived together...they are both baptized Witnesses now, serving Jehovah together as husband and wife...

My daughter's boyfriend, ended up getting drunk one night and shooting himself right in front of her...I thought that would be the end of her, also...but it wasn't...she turned to Jehovah, all on her own, to get through that dreadful time...and she did...she is now a baptized Witness pioneer, working part time, and spending 72 hours a month in the full-time preaching work...I believe with all my heart, if wasn't for Jehovah, she would not be here, today...she would tell you the same...

My kids made their own decisions...
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First, I'd like to thank your son for his service. Secondly, truly sorry to hear about that horrible issue involving your daughter's boyfriend. You know my personal testimony on matters of religion and religious doctrine(s) here at DP as well as anybody.
 
Logician Man said:
First, I'd like to thank your son for his service. Secondly, truly sorry to hear about that horrible issue involving your daughter's boyfriend. You know my personal testimony on matters of religion here at DP as well as anybody.
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I do, LM...we all have our own journeys on this road called life...some good, some bad...just thought I would share mine, since I don't think I have to this extent before...
 
Elvira said:
I do, LM...we all have our own journeys on this road called life...some good, some bad...just thought I would share mine, since I don't think I have to this extent before...
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Yes, indeed you did. And I thank you for your personal testimony, as well as sharing your trials and tribulations, or as the case may be, your son's,daughter's, and daughter's BF.. That's not always an easy thing to do. Have a great night, friend.
 
Logician Man said:
a child/young adult, is actually mature, educated, intelligent enough to fully understand the data content of a holy text, and make personal, informed, rational decisions as to whether that holy text is actual, or not truth ?
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Seems like I was around 9 or 10 before my questions were too direct and sometimes maybe unsettling. My dear mother was amazing. In retrospect, I well remember some of the answers and explanations she gave me. I don't know whether she had asked the same questions of nuns and priest but she was mostly prepared for my questions. Try as they might I never fully bought into it all.

Was God married? Did God have genitals? Why not if God is a he? Why did God feel the need to get someone else's wife pregnant? Why didn't Jesus get married?
At 9 or 10 those were big questions.

As I grew older my questions became more complex. When Sister Mary referred to cradle Catholics why the distinction? If you are born and socialized into your faith without really much of choice wouldn't it be more meaningful if you made a conscious choice to become a practitioner of a particular faith? Are cradle Catholics more Catholic than people are not born and socialized into the Church?

Not intending to be I was still a pain in the religious ass early on and it only continued until I said adios.

I fully understand that their faith - different levels - seems to work for most of my family and friends. OK, there are few born again cousins that I avoid and never see, but they know not to start talking religion to me. We're fine as long as they don't ask me how my soul is and make pointedly "innocent" comments.

Christianity doesn't work for me. To their credit, most family and friends accept me as I am. There is mutual respect and religion is not an issue between any of us.

I would add that pretty early in life I "knew" I had lived before. There was no doubt in my mind. Still isn't any doubt. But it makes adults uncomfortable when you are aware of past lives. lol I learned quickly not to talk about it. It weirded adults out. :shock:
 
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I think around 3rd grade I asked my parents if Santa Clause was real and they said no, it just wasn't making sense anymore. Then I asked them if God was real and they said yes God was real, but Santa Clause was not. God and Santa Clause at that age seemed to me to be the same concept, fictitious characters made up by humans to make life more bearable and easy to deal with. I also felt really stupid for not understanding why Hindu's, Muslims, Buddhists, Diests, and all other religions were going to hell but Christians were saved by God. Why were these people so awful? I asked my parents how could they be so sure we knew who God was.... but the Muslims, Hindu's, Buddhists, and all other religions were wrong about who God was. I asked them what if the Muslims are right about God and Christians are wrong and we are going hell? Or what if Hindu's are right who is God and everyone else is wrong. They said if God wanted them saved from burning to hell he would show them the way to Jesus and they would be saved... as a kid I just thought that sounded extremely stupid. I thought God was being a very mean and unfair God especially if those people had good morals and were law abiding citizens, yet he was punishing them for not following the Christian religion.

It seemed so crystal clear to my parents and many Christians, but to me it just seemed so illogical and religion just made no sense to me. The only thing that made sense to me at that age and still as an adult is that there is no God.
 
Elvira said:
I do, LM...we all have our own journeys on this road called life...some good, some bad...just thought I would share mine, since I don't think I have to this extent before...
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I have always admired you for the way you carry your faith. You are most certainly a credit to your beliefs.
 
Risky Thicket said:
I have always admired you for the way you carry your faith. You are most certainly a credit to your beliefs.
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Thank you, RT...that is very kind of you take the time to say and I appreciate it...
 
Risky Thicket said:
Seems like I was around 9 or 10 before my questions were too direct and sometimes maybe unsettling. My dear mother was amazing. In retrospect, I well remember some of the answers and explanations she gave me. I don't know whether she had asked the same questions of nuns and priest but she was mostly prepared for my questions. Try as they might I never fully bought into it all.

Was God married? Did God have genitals? Why not if God is a he? Why did God feel the need to get someone else's wife pregnant? Why didn't Jesus get married?
At 9 or 10 those were big questions.

As I grew older my questions became more complex. When Sister Mary referred to cradle Catholics why the distinction? If you are born and socialized into your faith without really much of choice wouldn't it be more meaningful if you made a conscious choice to become a practitioner of a particular faith? Are cradle Catholics more Catholic than people are not born and socialized into the Church?

Not intending to be I was still a pain in the religious ass early on and it only continued until I said adios.

I fully understand that their faith - different levels - seems to work for most of my family and friends. OK, there are few born again cousins that I avoid and never see, but they know not to start talking religion to me. We're fine as long as they don't ask me how my soul is and make pointedly "innocent" comments.

Christianity doesn't work for me. To their credit, most family and friends accept me as I am. There is mutual respect and religion is not an issue between any of us.

I would add that pretty early in life I "knew" I had lived before. There was no doubt in my mind. Still isn't any doubt. But it makes adults uncomfortable when you are aware of past lives. lol I learned quickly not to talk about it. It weirded adults out. :shock:
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My mom was a hard core fire and brimstone Southern Baptist; dad was a laid back Methodist; his father a Methodist deacon and KKK member. They fought so much over where to go, and not go, at the age of 11 we joined the Lutheran Church, where I was forced to be baptized. Also had to spend two summers doing catechism classes, which cut into my lake/swimming/water skiing time. Was promptly booted from my own confirmation because I refused to give the rubber stamped answers the church elders and the Pastor were expecting. Mom about fell out of her chair. After a brief recess, and a little bribery from pop over a 'urinal bonding' of sorts, Dad convinced me to go back in and 'take one for the team', lest mom bust his chops for who knows how long. :)
 
Mortician said:
I think around 3rd grade I asked my parents if Santa Clause was real and they said no, it just wasn't making sense anymore. Then I asked them if God was real and they said yes God was real, but Santa Clause was not. God and Santa Clause at that age seemed to me to be the same concept, fictitious characters made up by humans to make life more bearable and easy to deal with. I also felt really stupid for not understanding why Hindu's, Muslims, Buddhists, Diests, and all other religions were going to hell but Christians were saved by God. Why were these people so awful? I asked my parents how could they be so sure we knew who God was.... but the Muslims, Hindu's, Buddhists, and all other religions were wrong about who God was. I asked them what if the Muslims are right about God and Christians are wrong and we are going hell? Or what if Hindu's are right who is God and everyone else is wrong. They said if God wanted them saved from burning to hell he would show them the way to Jesus and they would be saved... as a kid I just thought that sounded extremely stupid. I thought God was being a very mean and unfair God especially if those people had good morals and were law abiding citizens, yet he was punishing them for not following the Christian religion.

It seemed so crystal clear to my parents and many Christians, but to me it just seemed so illogical and religion just made no sense to me. The only thing that made sense to me at that age and still as an adult is that there is no God.
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I believe many of those questions, at least from my youthful, personal experience, were all lumped into the 'mysterious ways' response, when I queried many of those very same questions.
 
Elvira said:
Depends, my children were hearing God's Word before they were born...I would read to them and they were at my Christian meetings, of course, right along with me...:2razz:...literally from infancy, I was teaching them...
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So, in other words, you did your best to make sure that they would NEVER be able to make personal, informed, rational decisions about religion.
 
Tlrmln said:
So, in other words, you did your best to make sure that they would NEVER be able to make personal, informed, rational decisions about religion.
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No, in other words, it was up to me to teach them the best that I could so that when they got old enough, they were equipped to make the right decisions for themselves in life...
 
Elvira said:
No, in other words, it was up to me to teach them the best that I could so that when they got old enough, they were equipped to make the right decisions for themselves in life...
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Why did they need to have your religious views crammed into their heads at a young age in order to make decisions for themselves when they get older?
 
Tlrmln said:
Why did they need to have your religious views crammed into their heads at a young age in order to make decisions for themselves when they get older?
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Because they were my children and my choice as to what was best for them...
 
my parents never went to church but for weddings and funerals which is not to say they weren't religious. They just didn't have much use for church. I started going to one on my street on my own until I was banned when I was about 8 or so for professing a belief that God didn't seem like a very nice person and only someone evil would let their child be tortured to death when they otherwise could have saved them.
 
Omega Man said:
It's not the answer you wanted.


OM
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In a sense, that's correct. I wanted an answer to my question. She provided an answer to a totally different question.
 
Tlrmln said:
So, in other words, you did your best to make sure that they would NEVER be able to make personal, informed, rational decisions about religion.
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She knows she could not convince adults that a magical sky daddy exists.
 
Tlrmln said:
In a sense, that's correct. I wanted an answer to my question. She provided an answer to a totally different question.
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She did answer your question; however your question was loaded ("why did they need..."). The fact that they were her children, and she has the right to raise them ideologically as she sees fit fulfills the requirement as to an answer. And since it's not the answer you're looking for, you will not be satisfied. That however is not her problem. I don't agree at all whatsoever with her ideology, but I accept her answer.


OM
 
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