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100 Years (Human Life Span) Relative To All Eternity

Cougarbear said:
The righteous and good people go into Paradise to await their judgment and resurrection. The wicked and disobedient go into Hell to await their judgment and resurrection.
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So tell me, can Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Mormons, and even Atheists get in to this "Paradise" you speak of?
Or is it only christians?

Also, what's the "disobedient" part consist of?

Both the righteous and the wicked get resurrected?
 
Cougarbear said:
Why would a loving god punish a human for eternity who was born, raised, and then died devoutly believing in a Hindu culture when that's all he/she knew?
How does one justify the rationality that your eternal condition is based solely and only on the 100 (probably less) years you spend on Earth?
Figuring in that your time on Earth has so many variables that are completely out of your own control.
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Are Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, and Jews disobedient? Your God allows these religions to be created, gives us free choice and punishes those who do not choose Christianity? He must be a nasty and sadistic guy.
 
Dragonfly said:
So tell me, can Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Mormons, and even Atheists get in to this "Paradise" you speak of?
Or is it only christians?

Righteous people who if they had the opportunity to have received the true Gospel of Jesus Christ would have received it can be included in Paradise. Most Christians only have a portion of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. The fullness has been around for almost 200 years with the proper ordinances. But, most of them didn’t have that opportunity but do accept it in the hereafter while in Paradise.

Also, what's the "disobedient" part consist of?

You don’t understand what disobedient means? Not following the rules because of things like pride.

Both the righteous and the wicked get resurrected?
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As the scriptures say, all who descend from Heaven will ascend with Christ or in other words because of Christ’s atonement all will be resurrected. However, 1Cor. Chapter 15 says our bodies will be different based on our judgment of God. The only ones of our Father’s children that won’t be resurrected are those who didn’t come to the earth and receive their bodies. That would be Lucifer and his fallen angels.
 
zyzygy said:
Are Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, and Jews disobedient? Your God allows these religions to be created, gives us free choice and punishes those who do not choose Christianity? He must be a nasty and sadistic guy.
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You chose to come to this earth to receive your physical body, as did Jehovah, because the physical earthly body is required to continue to progress to inherit all our Father has to give us. We all chose knowing all the possible perils in this world. A veil has been placed over our minds at birth to forget our pre-earth life. We had agreed that we will only be given guidance from the Holy Ghost through faith. Faith that God lives. We may not know who that God is. But, if we follow the prescribed method of gaining faith to know the Gospel when we hear and see it. Prayer with real intent is one of the main keys. We agreed to all of this.
 
Cougarbear said:
You chose to come to this earth to receive your physical body, as did Jehovah, because the physical earthly body is required to continue to progress to inherit all our Father has to give us. We all chose knowing all the possible perils in this world. A veil has been placed over our minds at birth to forget our pre-earth life. We had agreed that we will only be given guidance from the Holy Ghost through faith. Faith that God lives. We may not know who that God is. But, if we follow the prescribed method of gaining faith to know the Gospel when we hear and see it. Prayer with real intent is one of the main keys. We agreed to all of this.
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No such thing.
 
Cougarbear said:
You chose to come to this earth to receive your physical body, as did Jehovah, because the physical earthly body is required to continue to progress to inherit all our Father has to give us. We all chose knowing all the possible perils in this world. A veil has been placed over our minds at birth to forget our pre-earth life. We had agreed that we will only be given guidance from the Holy Ghost through faith. Faith that God lives. We may not know who that God is. But, if we follow the prescribed method of gaining faith to know the Gospel when we hear and see it. Prayer with real intent is one of the main keys. We agreed to all of this.
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aww mormonism

well its not actually clear any one chose that

your god has little power at the strangest of times


how is hiding truth from people good or faith for the sake of faith virtuous?

or punishing people for the wrong faith?
 
stevecanuck said:
I see you're going with the pretense that an understood "according to religious belief" isn't there. Ok, go for it.
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You said it: IT'S A BELIEF! For crying out loud! :lamo

Don't you consider believing in the supernatural, absurd?
So, what are you doing arguing about a belief on the supernatural?

"Gimme proof of this, gimme proof of that!"
How can there be physical proof of the supernatural?
That's another contradiction right there!


Either you believe it, or you don't. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!

If you don't believe in it - then, why do you care so much what others believe?
Like I've pointed out - no one's forcing you to believe what they believe! Lol.
So they believe people like you will get the eternal hot seat - so what? That's should be your response, and move on!
Right? :mrgreen:



You're the one who brought up "absurd." Lol.

Face it. Your reaction to this religious belief, is what's so..............absurd.

WHY DO YOU FEEL "THE GUN POINTED TO YOUR HEAD," by a God you say don't exist?
The way you carry on! :lamo Like you're getting pinched or something -



You don't believe this God exists, and yet you're so troubled by the doctrines and laws - especially the judgement and punishment part of it!

Lol. That's a big contradiction right there!
You and Calamity illustrate the best example of the terribly........... confused. :lol:
 
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blarg said:
aww mormonism

well its not actually clear any one chose that

your god has little power at the strangest of times


how is hiding truth from people good or faith for the sake of faith virtuous?

or punishing people for the wrong faith?
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Again, you fail to accept that people accepting the wrong faith is punishable. You also seem to think the truth is hidden. It's not. You may reject the truth when you receive it. But, that's not hiding it from you. And, it doesn't mean you won't enter into Heaven either. Read the Book of Mormon and you will find these and other questions are answered as it is a second witness of Jesus Christ and his Gospel.
 
devildavid said:
No such thing.
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The fact you are here on Earth is evidence you did. Had you not, you would be here in the earth as Lucifer's (Satan) fallen angels. And, the fact you have the free moral agency to accept or reject the Gospel truth is also a testament of this.
 
zyzygy said:
Are Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, and Jews disobedient? Your God allows these religions to be created, gives us free choice and punishes those who do not choose Christianity? He must be a nasty and sadistic guy.
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I didn't answer the second part. God doesn't punish those who don't choose Christianity. We are all born into our bodies in different locations around the world. Most may never know or hear of Jesus Christ or his purpose is. What we did covenant to do is through our faith, live good lives treating people with love. Not all people have the influence or gift of the Holy Ghost. But all people have the Light of Christ to choose recognize good and evil that are of the age of accountability which is about around the age of 8 years old. If a Muslim finds in their Koran all that talks about treating people with kindness and recognizes that's what they should do, then they have through faith and the Light of Christ (they may not know it) will be judged accordingly to what they would have done had they been given the opportunity to know the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. Thus, the mercy of God with judge righteously based on the content of our hearts and minds.
I know most Christian faiths don't teach this because they only have one testament of Christ. Two are required as even the Bible teaches. But, I have two. The Bible and the Book of Mormon.
 
Cougarbear said:
Again, you fail to accept that people accepting the wrong faith is punishable. You also seem to think the truth is hidden. It's not. You may reject the truth when you receive it. But, that's not hiding it from you. And, it doesn't mean you won't enter into Heaven either. Read the Book of Mormon and you will find these and other questions are answered as it is a second witness of Jesus Christ and his Gospel.
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of course it punishable any thing can be punishable but why would any one who give a dam about you or about being known punish you for it especially when its ther own fault you dont know about them?

well i dont think ther are nay god hiding any truths because none seem to exist

gods could only be hiding themselves if they did exist and had the power to show themselves then again its on them for hiding in that case

i may reject any truth if you dont show me its true no god has shown me anything.

no indication haven exists let alone what would get you ther or keep you form it

i have read the entire book of Mormon and just because it claims something is so dosnet make it so

and its fake civilizations suggest with the utmost strength that its a man made work of fiction
 
Cougarbear said:
The fact you are here on Earth is evidence you did. Had you not, you would be here in the earth as Lucifer's (Satan) fallen angels. And, the fact you have the free moral agency to accept or reject the Gospel truth is also a testament of this.
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The fact I am here is evidence that my parents did something physically to cause me to be here. All that other stuff is made up nonsense.
 
Cougarbear said:
Again, you fail to accept that people accepting the wrong faith is punishable. You also seem to think the truth is hidden. It's not. You may reject the truth when you receive it. But, that's not hiding it from you. And, it doesn't mean you won't enter into Heaven either. Read the Book of Mormon and you will find these and other questions are answered as it is a second witness of Jesus Christ and his Gospel.
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How can the Book of Mormon be right when Elvira knows that her JW religion is right?
 
Cougarbear said:
Again, you fail to accept that people accepting the wrong faith is punishable.
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1) How do you know this? Where is your proof?

2) Please provide a list of some examples of "the wrong faith" (somewhere between 5 and 10 should be rather easy to compile)

3) How many "right faiths" are there? Is there just one? Or perhaps are there a few?
 
Dragonfly said:
1) How do you know this? Where is your proof?

2) Please provide a list of some examples of "the wrong faith" (somewhere between 5 and 10 should be rather easy to compile)

3) How many "right faiths" are there? Is there just one? Or perhaps are there a few?
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I can name it in one...any faith that teaches what is NOT in the Bible...
 
Dragonfly said:
For the ease of discussion, lets say that the human life span is 100 years. Most less, but some more, so it's just easy to call it a nice round 100.

Now I know it's impossible, but picture a timeline that represents eternity.

How small of a dot would that 100 year human life span be on the timeline of eternity? A microdot? A millidot? A pecodot? Could the human eye even detect that dot?
Probably not right?

So why then would a god that's dealing with time in eternal parameters judge, and condemn or reward an eternal existence to another entity based solely on that 100 years of Earth life?

Or a better question might be why would a "loving god" do that? I think we could all understand that a bitter savage god might do such a thing.

This becomes even more of a quandary when thinking about the random chance/luck around how, when, where, and to whom one is born.

The human that is born into a North Korean existence is going to have a much different opportunity at life and it's questions than the human born into a North American existence. Correct?

The human born into a 12th century existence vs the one born today.
The human born into a Islamic culture vs the one born into a Hindu culture vs the one born into a Mormon culture.
The human born with drug addictions and poverty vs the one born to truly caring and loving parents with wealth.

All these things shape and direct how and what a person will learn and believe in their very short lifetime. Yet we're supposed to believe they'll be judged and condemned/rewarded, for all eternity, on/for things that are completely out of their control?

Why would a loving god punish a human for eternity who was born, raised, and then died devoutly believing in a Hindu culture when that's all he/she knew?

How does one justify the rationality that your eternal condition is based solely and only on the 100 (probably less) years you spend on Earth?
Figuring in that your time on Earth has so many variables that are completely out of your own control.
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It doesn't. Let's not forget that the Bible is merely mankind's interpretation of a power so great that not only created the entire Universe, and perhaps many more, but exists both outside of it and as well as inside of it. Using the analogy of amoebas writing about the Solar System doesn't even come close to the scale.

That said, IMO, an all powerful, all merciful and all loving power wouldn't condemn anyone but this does beg the question of why does the Universe exist in the first place? Theorists have voiced opinions ranging from entertainment (i.e. eternity is boring) to growing souls. Another theory is that we are all little pieces of God broken off for unknown reasons.

The latter idea reminds me of the cycle of water on the Earth: There is the great ocean covering the planet. Heat causes water to vaporize. Some condenses into raindrops and falls back into the ocean. Some remains airborne for awhile and then condenses as raindrops over land to fall into the ground, into lakes and/or to rivers/streams. All eventually make it back to the great ocean. In this analogy, we are all raindrops. People who die young are like the rain into the ocean, those who live longer are like those who fell over land. Regardless, we all end up in the same place.
 
Cougarbear said:
You chose to come to this earth to receive your physical body, as did Jehovah, because the physical earthly body is required to continue to progress to inherit all our Father has to give us. We all chose knowing all the possible perils in this world. A veil has been placed over our minds at birth to forget our pre-earth life. We had agreed that we will only be given guidance from the Holy Ghost through faith. Faith that God lives. We may not know who that God is. But, if we follow the prescribed method of gaining faith to know the Gospel when we hear and see it. Prayer with real intent is one of the main keys. We agreed to all of this.
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Nope, that was the choice of my parents. We? Who are we? I don't agree.
 
blarg said:
of course it punishable any thing can be punishable but why would any one who give a dam about you or about being known punish you for it especially when its ther own fault you dont know about them?

well i dont think ther are nay god hiding any truths because none seem to exist

gods could only be hiding themselves if they did exist and had the power to show themselves then again its on them for hiding in that case

i may reject any truth if you dont show me its true no god has shown me anything.

no indication haven exists let alone what would get you ther or keep you form it

i have read the entire book of Mormon and just because it claims something is so dosnet make it so

and its fake civilizations suggest with the utmost strength that its a man made work of fiction
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Who says it's fake? There are thousands of new towns and roads that have been seen now that couldn't be seen before through imaging techniques. There is a lot we just don't have information on to make such a blanket statement. And, the Book of Mormon doesn't claim it's true. It asks for us to find out if it is true by praying and asking the Father, in the Name of the Son if it is true. By way of personal revelation we can know it is true as well as the Bible. But, we have to use the prescribed methods to conduct the search for it's truth. Just reading the Book of Mormon won't do that.
Moroni 10:4-5, "4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
James 1:5-8, "5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."

That's the only way. Relying on Science and Archeology is not the way. God is not beholden to mankind and our limited worldly knowledge. He set His plan in motion and through faith we can know the truth of God's existence and the truth about the fullness of the Gospel contained in the Book of Mormon.
 
zyzygy said:
Nope, that was the choice of my parents. We? Who are we? I don't agree.
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Yep, we agreed in the pre-earth life of existence. That's why we are here now on earth. Whether you now agree is up to you.
 
Elvira said:
I can name it in one...any faith that teaches what is NOT in the Bible...
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Do you baptize for the dead? Paul taught through true principles and doctrines. He never taught using falsehoods. So, 1Cor.15:29, "29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" These are they who did not receive baptism while alive because it did not exist. It is also for them who would have received the Gospel and would have been baptized if the authority to baptize was on the earth. God is not unjust. But, your church does not baptize for the dead. Why not? Simple. No authority to do it. The Catholic Church lost that information and authority along the way. And, you are simply using a book of scripture that the Pope's lost over time. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only Church that does with authority.
 
devildavid said:
How can the Book of Mormon be right when Elvira knows that her JW religion is right?
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Because she has not followed the correct principles laid out in the Bible and Book of Mormon to find the fullness of the Gospel (truth). James 1:5-8 and Moroni 10:4-5. So, she follows the doctrines and commandments of men, mingled with scripture. Doesn't mean she doesn't have some truth. Many religions have some truth in them. But, not the fullness of the truth or Gospel with the true authority to administer all the saving ordinances. So, what she has is some knowledge of those things that are right.
 
Cougarbear said:
Do you baptize for the dead? Paul taught through true principles and doctrines. He never taught using falsehoods. So, 1Cor.15:29, "29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" These are they who did not receive baptism while alive because it did not exist. It is also for them who would have received the Gospel and would have been baptized if the authority to baptize was on the earth. God is not unjust. But, your church does not baptize for the dead. Why not? Simple. No authority to do it. The Catholic Church lost that information and authority along the way. And, you are simply using a book of scripture that the Pope's lost over time. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only Church that does with authority.
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A total misunderstanding of what Paul is referring to, putting himself in mortal danger would be fruitless, if not for the hope of the resurrection...context is everything...verse 31..."Daily I face death."...Paul then adds...“This I affirm by the exultation over you, brothers, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord.”...in verse 32, Paul speaks of ‘fighting wild beasts at Ephesus.’...if Paul endured a battle with literal wild beasts, he could have survived only with Jehovah’s help...without the resurrection hope, choosing a life course that exposed him to such peril would have been foolhardy...without the hope of a future life, enduring the hardships and sacrifices that came with serving God would have little meaning....“If the dead are not to be raised up,” says Paul, “‘let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we are to die.’” 1 Corinthians 15:31, 32...
 
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