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Beliefs and Skepticism

Angel

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Beliefs and Skepticism

Belief - acceptance of an idea as true; the idea so accepted
Skepticism - doubt about the truth of an idea; the doubt itself


YboYNjh.jpg


The Blind Men and the Elephant
by John Godfrey Saxe (1816-1887)

It was six men of Indostan,
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approach'd the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, -"Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear,
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approach'd the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," -quoth he- "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee:
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," -quoth he,-
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said- "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Then, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," -quoth he,- "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

MORAL,

So, oft in theologic wars
The disputants, I ween,
Tread on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean;
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

Just so a Seventh stumbles in,
A skeptic, I presume,
And overreaches from behind
In atheistic gloom
Denying what the blind can see
The Elephant in the room

ZkGXIFQ.jpg


The theme of the classic poem in the new light of the amended verse is that while the skeptic doubts the conclusions of the blind men as to the nature of the beast,
the skeptic misses the very existence of the beast he knows intimately.

Comments?
Questions?
Doubts?
Denials?


Blind Men and the Elephant
John Godfrey Saxe - Poems by the Famous Poet - All Poetry
NB Last stanza composed by Angel Trismegistus.
 
Beliefs and Skepticism

Belief - acceptance of an idea as true; the idea so accepted
Skepticism - doubt about the truth of an idea; the doubt itself


YboYNjh.jpg


The Blind Men and the Elephant
by John Godfrey Saxe (1816-1887)

It was six men of Indostan,
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approach'd the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, -"Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear,
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approach'd the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," -quoth he- "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee:
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," -quoth he,-
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said- "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Then, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," -quoth he,- "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

MORAL,

So, oft in theologic wars
The disputants, I ween,
Tread on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean;
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

Just so a Seventh stumbles in,
A skeptic, I presume,
And overreaches from behind
In atheistic gloom
Denying what the blind can see
The Elephant in the room

ZkGXIFQ.jpg


The theme of the classic poem in the new light of the amended verse is that while the skeptic doubts the conclusions of the blind men as to the nature of the beast,
the skeptic misses the very existence of the beast he knows intimately.

Comments?
Questions?
Doubts?
Denials?


Blind Men and the Elephant
John Godfrey Saxe - Poems by the Famous Poet - All Poetry
NB Last stanza composed by Angel Trismegistus.

As usual you start from the dishonest position that a god exists as does elephants. Although the existence of elephants are not disputed the existence of a god still remains nothing more than the imagination of a theist.
 
There is nothing more to be said.
 
Beliefs and Skepticism

Belief - acceptance of an idea as true; the idea so accepted
Skepticism - doubt about the truth of an idea; the doubt itself


YboYNjh.jpg


The Blind Men and the Elephant
by John Godfrey Saxe (1816-1887)
....

The theme of the classic poem in the new light of the amended verse is that while the skeptic doubts the conclusions of the blind men as to the nature of the beast,
the skeptic misses the very existence of the beast he knows intimately.

Comments?
Questions?
Doubts?
Denials?
Here's a photograph of an elephant. Anyone can go to the zoo and be guaranteed to see a real one for themselves.

5b9c0dcc3cccd152008b45e3


Can you please provide a photograph of God. And let us know where we can go to be guaranteed to see a real one for ourselves.
 
Three replies so far from Internet Skeptics who apparently are unfamiliar with the nature of poetry. Sad.
 
I have always found that to be a silly story. Blind people would feel the elephant all over.
 
I think at this point an inference to the literarily challenged nature of Internet Skepticism may be in order, with a tutorial to follow.
I'll ponder this at the gym.
 
Three replies so far from Internet Skeptics who apparently are unfamiliar with the nature of poetry. Sad.

It's interesting to me that you ask for:

Comments?
Questions?
Doubts?
Denials?


And then whine when you get them.
 
Three replies so far from Internet Skeptics who apparently are unfamiliar with the nature of poetry. Sad.

Is this the poetry forum?
 
Beliefs and Skepticism

Belief - acceptance of an idea as true; the idea so accepted
Skepticism - doubt about the truth of an idea; the doubt itself


YboYNjh.jpg


The Blind Men and the Elephant
by John Godfrey Saxe (1816-1887)

It was six men of Indostan,
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approach'd the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, -"Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear,
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approach'd the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," -quoth he- "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee:
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," -quoth he,-
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said- "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Then, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," -quoth he,- "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

MORAL,

So, oft in theologic wars
The disputants, I ween,
Tread on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean;
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

Just so a Seventh stumbles in,
A skeptic, I presume,
And overreaches from behind
In atheistic gloom
Denying what the blind can see
The Elephant in the room

ZkGXIFQ.jpg


The theme of the classic poem in the new light of the amended verse is that while the skeptic doubts the conclusions of the blind men as to the nature of the beast,
the skeptic misses the very existence of the beast he knows intimately.

Comments?
Questions?
Doubts?
Denials?


Blind Men and the Elephant
John Godfrey Saxe - Poems by the Famous Poet - All Poetry
NB Last stanza composed by Angel Trismegistus.

That's a pretty funny picture at the end there Angel! :lamo

I would just hate to be the guy standing behind the elephant doing that. That's a pretty sensitive area for the elephant, and one wrong move and.... BAM! If you think a horse can kick hard, you haven't been kicked by an elephant!

No wonder the other one is keeping her distance. Smart girl.
 
MORAL,

So, oft in theologic wars
The disputants, I ween,
Tread on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean;
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

Just so a Seventh stumbles in,
A skeptic, I presume,
And overreaches from behind
In atheistic gloom
Denying what the blind can see
The Elephant in the room

More interesting things about this story...
First, although I'm sure that you're again going to try to claim it only applies to your "God", it does not. It could apply to belief in anything.
Second, that's not the moral of how this story was originally used.

"The parable has been used to illustrate a range of truths and fallacies; broadly, the parable implies that one's subjective experience can be true, but that such experience is inherently limited by its failure to account for other truths or a totality of truth. At various times the parable has provided insight into the relativism, opaqueness or inexpressible nature of truth, the behavior of experts in fields of contradicting theories, the need for deeper understanding, and respect for different perspectives on the same object of observation."


It's interesting that you have taken a story who's moral is, at least in part, that we should respect others and their different points of view, and turned it into, "you all are blind" and "the objective truth is what I claim".
 
It's interesting to me that you ask for:

Comments?
Questions?
Doubts?
Denials?


And then whine when you get them.
Is that what you heard -- a whine? Hmm. Internet Skeptics appear to be acutely sensitive to that tone.
For the record, I was commenting on comments that showed a startling lack of poetic sensibility.
 
More interesting things about this story...
First, although I'm sure that you're again going to try to claim it only applies to your "God", it does not. It could apply to belief in anything.
Second, that's not the moral of how this story was originally used.

"The parable has been used to illustrate a range of truths and fallacies; broadly, the parable implies that one's subjective experience can be true, but that such experience is inherently limited by its failure to account for other truths or a totality of truth. At various times the parable has provided insight into the relativism, opaqueness or inexpressible nature of truth, the behavior of experts in fields of contradicting theories, the need for deeper understanding, and respect for different perspectives on the same object of observation."


It's interesting that you have taken a story who's moral is, at least in part, that we should respect others and their different points of view, and turned it into, "you all are blind" and "the objective truth is what I claim".
First, the God you persist in calling "my" God is everybody's God -- including the atheist's God.
Second, another unattributed quotation.
Third, You misread my amended version of the poem. I'm saying the blind men see better than the Internet Skeptic.
 
That's a pretty funny picture at the end there Angel! :lamo

I would just hate to be the guy standing behind the elephant doing that. That's a pretty sensitive area for the elephant, and one wrong move and.... BAM! If you think a horse can kick hard, you haven't been kicked by an elephant!

No wonder the other one is keeping her distance. Smart girl.
Thanks for the post, ataraxia. I'm delighted someone got the humor.
 
First, the God you persist in calling "my" God is everybody's God -- including the atheist's God.

No...it's YOUR "God". For example, when you steal from the ancient Greek Philosophers, they weren't making an argument for YOUR "God", but for Zeus and the rest of the Greek pantheon.

Second, another unattributed quotation.

I put in the link... Do you dispute what it says?

Third, You misread my amended version of the poem. I'm saying the blind men see better than the Internet Skeptic.

Better to say that people in an insane asylum see better than the Internet Skeptic (btw, I have no trouble believing in the internet). People in an insane asylum often claim to see things that aren't there, too.
 
For the record, I was commenting on comments that showed a startling lack of poetic sensibility.

"Poetic sensibility"? What exactly do you define that as being?
That we don't believe in fantasies based on a parable?
 
No...it's YOUR "God". For example, when you steal from the ancient Greek Philosophers, they weren't making an argument for YOUR "God", but for Zeus and the rest of the Greek pantheon.
You failed to produce this phantom stolen proof, and yet you bring it up again. Are you readu now to produce it?

I put in the link... Do you dispute what it says?
Dispute an interpretation of Saxe's poem? Of course not. Do you dispute my interpretation of my amended version of Saxe's poem? Let's hear your dispute.

Better to say that people in an insane asylum see better than the Internet Skeptic (btw, I have no trouble believing in the internet). People in an insane asylum often claim to see things that aren't there, too.
The Elephant is "there" in the universe of discourse of the poem.
 
"Poetic sensibility"? What exactly do you define that as being?
That we don't believe in fantasies based on a parable?
Possessing the wherewithal to appreciate and understand poetry.
 
You failed to produce this phantom stolen proof, and yet you bring it up again. Are you readu now to produce it?

You claimed it?
/shrug

Dispute an interpretation of Saxe's poem? Of course not. Do you dispute my interpretation of my amended version of Saxe's poem? Let's hear your dispute.

I didn't dispute your interpretation... I said that it was interesting how you twisted the interpretation from the original.

The Elephant is "there" in the universe of discourse of the poem.

Yes, a failing of your analogy since we have no reason to believe that your "God" is there.
 
Possessing the wherewithal to appreciate and understand poetry.

Er...you really don't get it, do you?
No one has said a word against the poem, itself. People have disputed your contrived moral based on the poem.
 
You claimed it?
/shrug
...
I don't know what you mean here. You alleged that my proof was stolen from the Ancient Greeks, I asked you to produce the proof you attribute to me, and you shrugged and said it doesn't matter. And here you are talking about a stolen proof. What proof are you referring to?
 
Er...you really don't get it, do you?
No one has said a word against the poem, itself. People have disputed your contrived moral based on the poem.

I have, it's a stupid poem. A blind person would feel the whole elephant.
 
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