• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

i was somewhat an atheist until -- some things happend etc

Those Darwinists who claim Christians are gullible and believe lies they were taught about God are stupid at best or embarrassingly gullible at worst.

No, those Darwians during his life time (Darwin's lifetime) were correct, people were gullible by centuries of indoctrination by the church, lack of even basic learning in those times and rubber stamped pro-religion laws by their politicians who mostly were in the pocket of big religion.
 
Fossils don't prove anything, except that there are extremely few that could even possibly be called anything like evidence of a missing link in the speculative evolutionary chain of life.

Even with the link to show the fallacy of your argument you still repeat it, typical.
 
i was somewhat an atheist until -- some things happend etc

I was very young when I called myself.. well, never used the A word but I questioned my parents re the existence of God (was raised Catholic)

Then I EXPERIENCED God in a big way... long story but God came to me in a big way and no one will ever tell me that did not happen, or that it was "all in my mind" You may as well tell me I haven't eaten in a year or something...

Then I read the New Testament, after the aforementioned experience.. fell in love w/ Jesus and things were awesome.. for a long time, etc.. (I back slid because was not well-trained in the faith... very sad thing..)

so anyway, then later on, i read the entire Bible.. which, if not for the Catholic faith i had then returned to.. i have to admit.. some things in the Old T are just... Why do I want to say Just BAD? Well, there are a few things in the OT that are just hard to really accept so if i hadn't had my Catholic faith (esp the Real Presence in the Church), I probably would not have accepted the bible (OT, that is)

anyway... maybe atheists ought to try reading the Bible.. or going to Mass daily..



I've read the entire Bible through twice, once as a child as a Sunday School project and the second time as a requirement for a Theology course.

The first time was a struggle and I didn't retain much. It was that second time that woke me up to the falsehood of religion.

I've been an atheist ever since.
 
No, those Darwians during his life time (Darwin's lifetime) were correct, people were gullible by centuries of indoctrination by the church, lack of even basic learning in those times and rubber stamped pro-religion laws by their politicians who mostly were in the pocket of big religion.

Very true.
 
How do any chemicals create and manage thoughts in the brain? Why must we be held hostage to stupid unproven narratives? Science has no clue how chemicals or electrical impulses can create and manage human thoughts, so why not by default admit the possibility that humans have souls and/or spirits which allow them to remember and express thoughts?

At least you admit that your entire, and I do mean ENTIRE thought process on all this comes down to one simple phrase:

"I don't know, therefore god did it."
 
i was somewhat an atheist until -- some things happend etc

I was very young when I called myself.. well, never used the A word but I questioned my parents re the existence of God (was raised Catholic)

Then I EXPERIENCED God in a big way... long story but God came to me in a big way and no one will ever tell me that did not happen, or that it was "all in my mind" You may as well tell me I haven't eaten in a year or something...

Then I read the New Testament, after the aforementioned experience.. fell in love w/ Jesus and things were awesome.. for a long time, etc.. (I back slid because was not well-trained in the faith... very sad thing..)

so anyway, then later on, i read the entire Bible.. which, if not for the Catholic faith i had then returned to.. i have to admit.. some things in the Old T are just... Why do I want to say Just BAD? Well, there are a few things in the OT that are just hard to really accept so if i hadn't had my Catholic faith (esp the Real Presence in the Church), I probably would not have accepted the bible (OT, that is)

anyway... maybe atheists ought to try reading the Bible.. or going to Mass daily..

Isn't somewhat of an atheist like a little bit pregnant?

The only thing atheists have in common is a general disbelief in God. But the depth of this disbelief can vary greatly.

For example, following your timeline, you were an atheist UNTIL you "experienced God in a big way".......which tells me you weren't really an atheist after all.
 
I've read the entire Bible through twice, once as a child as a Sunday School project and the second time as a requirement for a Theology course.

The first time was a struggle and I didn't retain much. It was that second time that woke me up to the falsehood of religion.

I've been an atheist ever since.

I'm not surprised. You may have reached that conclusion, anyway, but here's the thing: I know a LOT of Christians and other believers in the Bible, but I don't think I know one who has "read the entire bible through". It's hard to even imagine doing that; the Bible is not a novel, it's more a series of inspirational (to some people) verses along with stories to illustrate them.

Furthermore, not all religious believers believe in the Bible. Therefore, the notion of someone becoming an atheist as a result of reading the Bible seems a bit.......premature, at least.
 
i was somewhat an atheist until -- some things happend etc

I was very young when I called myself.. well, never used the A word but I questioned my parents re the existence of God (was raised Catholic)

Then I EXPERIENCED God in a big way... long story but God came to me in a big way and no one will ever tell me that did not happen, or that it was "all in my mind" You may as well tell me I haven't eaten in a year or something...

Then I read the New Testament, after the aforementioned experience.. fell in love w/ Jesus and things were awesome.. for a long time, etc.. (I back slid because was not well-trained in the faith... very sad thing..)

so anyway, then later on, i read the entire Bible.. which, if not for the Catholic faith i had then returned to.. i have to admit.. some things in the Old T are just... Why do I want to say Just BAD? Well, there are a few things in the OT that are just hard to really accept so if i hadn't had my Catholic faith (esp the Real Presence in the Church), I probably would not have accepted the bible (OT, that is)

anyway... maybe atheists ought to try reading the Bible.. or going to Mass daily..

How did you identify the particualr god that came to you?
 
I've read the entire Bible through twice, once as a child as a Sunday School project and the second time as a requirement for a Theology course.

The first time was a struggle and I didn't retain much. It was that second time that woke me up to the falsehood of religion.

I've been an atheist ever since.

As a famous Dutch theologian says, the bible is only a book of falsehoods if you have to pretend that they are a history book or things that have to be taken literally.
 
As a famous Dutch theologian says, the bible is only a book of falsehoods if you have to pretend that they are a history book or things that have to be taken literally.

Ok, so if it is a story, fiction, and not a tale or reality, set of fables, what sort of moral good comes out of the bits where it tells you how to deal with slaves?
 
I don't care what they call themselves. If they call God a liar they are atheists in my book.

I am fairly certain no scientist has called God a liar.
 
I'm not surprised. You may have reached that conclusion, anyway, but here's the thing: I know a LOT of Christians and other believers in the Bible, but I don't think I know one who has "read the entire bible through". It's hard to even imagine doing that; the Bible is not a novel, it's more a series of inspirational (to some people) verses along with stories to illustrate them.

For sure, in fact, in my opinion, most Christians have not read the Bible, but rather read selected verses when asked to by their pastor. And, most stay in the New Testament. There's nothing wrong with that.

Furthermore, not all religious believers believe in the Bible. Therefore, the notion of someone becoming an atheist as a result of reading the Bible seems a bit.......premature, at least.

It was more than just that, obviously. I was already doubting my choice to study theology at the time and beginning to realize that what others wanted for me wasn't what I wanted for myself. The Old Testament is filled with etiological myths, and after awhile, a pattern emerges. When combined with logic, one then has the choice to accept what's not logical or change one's opinion. I did the latter. It wasn't an overnight thing, but as my studies progressed, I quit seeing the words as inspirational and rather as contrived by persons who wanted to control the masses. I changed my course of study, and for a time -- maybe three years or so -- I was an angry atheist, but I eventually came to see that people just have to make their own decisions in their own time. I don't begrudge any of the faithful, but I've moved on.
 
Was there something specific that opened your eyes?
Or was it the collective everything?

Just curious.

It was many things -- but it happened during the second time I was required to read the Bible. It became clearer and clearer by the day that what I was reading not only wasn't true -- the superstitionism behind it was illogical. It didn't happen overnight.
 
As a famous Dutch theologian says, the bible is only a book of falsehoods if you have to pretend that they are a history book or things that have to be taken literally.

Sure, that's probably true. I now look at the Bible as I look at Greek myths and other legends. If people can receive hope and learn to be kind by believing them -- it's all good. If they use them as justifications to be cruel to others, then there's a problem.
 
I am fairly certain no scientist has called God a liar.

Why would somebody who doesn't believe in god turn around and call god a lair?
I mean, the whole thing makes no sense at all.

But it did come from marke, so it makes plenty of sense in that way.

Delusional sense.
 
Why would somebody who doesn't believe in god turn around and call god a lair?
I mean, the whole thing makes no sense at all.

But it did come from marke, so it makes plenty of sense in that way.

Delusional sense.

Even if a scientist believes in God but accepts evolution doesn't mean they are calling God a liar.
marke appears to be confusing his interpretation of the bible as the correct one written by God themselves.
 
Even if a scientist believes in God but accepts evolution doesn't mean they are calling God a liar.
marke appears to be confusing his interpretation of the bible as the correct one written by God themselves.

He's shown everyone here how "confused" he truly is. It's so blatantly obvious a blind person cold see it.
 
He's shown everyone here how "confused" he truly is. It's so blatantly obvious a blind person cold see it.

I wouldn't call it confusion its more like willful ignorance
 
Ok, so if it is a story, fiction, and not a tale or reality, set of fables, what sort of moral good comes out of the bits where it tells you how to deal with slaves?

1. not my view but the view of the theologian

2. I doubt he would say something good about owning slaves
 
The ability of humans to think thoughts and retain them for future use is not something dummass evolutionists can explain apart from kindergarten stupid statements along the lines of 'it just happened and God was not involved.'

So you got absolutely nothing. I have thousands of things man attributed to God but turned out to have a natural answer. You don't have ONE single thing where the natural explanation turned out to be wrong, and God was the proper explanation. Not ONE.
 
i was somewhat an atheist until -- some things happend etc

I was very young when I called myself.. well, never used the A word but I questioned my parents re the existence of God (was raised Catholic)

Then I EXPERIENCED God in a big way... long story but God came to me in a big way and no one will ever tell me that did not happen, or that it was "all in my mind" You may as well tell me I haven't eaten in a year or something...

Then I read the New Testament, after the aforementioned experience.. fell in love w/ Jesus and things were awesome.. for a long time, etc.. (I back slid because was not well-trained in the faith... very sad thing..)

so anyway, then later on, i read the entire Bible.. which, if not for the Catholic faith i had then returned to.. i have to admit.. some things in the Old T are just... Why do I want to say Just BAD? Well, there are a few things in the OT that are just hard to really accept so if i hadn't had my Catholic faith (esp the Real Presence in the Church), I probably would not have accepted the bible (OT, that is)

anyway... maybe atheists ought to try reading the Bible.. or going to Mass daily..

Why would I want to do that?

One of the benefits of atheism is that you don't even have to buy a book, or waste Sunday mornings.
 
Who the theologan of the Bible?

They are not theologian's of the bible but theologians of Dutch society/Royal family.

Carel ter Linden said about his faith and the bible:

The bible stories one should see as life-stories, metaphorical tales and he does not see Jezus as the biological son of god. About god he says that it is the spirit that inspires us to be loving, faithful and just. God does not know himself, just like he loves does not know itself. It is mankind who has to do it.

The other one is Huub Oosterhuis, he is a modernist who used to be a monk/Jezuit monk who did not agree with the celibacy doctrine and left the monk existence but did work as a preacher in an independent catholic parish.

He thinks the catholic/christian church has become too fixated on worshiping Jezus rather than following him and his views.

He said:

More and more people worship the person Jezus rather than following his teachings....He has become a dream figure....a wish dream....the projection of a better version of us.....he has become an unbelievably beautiful story: the divine savior, the holiest of holy redeemer, ......the CHRIST!!

He wants people to live more like Jezus than worship him as a demi god.

He was invited by Queen Beatrix and her sons to lead the memorial service and placing in the royal tomb, when her husband Prince Claus died.

He said in his service:

Claus was not a big churchgoer. He did not talk about god. Any dogmatic principle was foreign to him. He had more questions than answers, like my christians who do not belong to a church. About possible religious experiences he did not speak. And of the Lutheran Church of Germany he has mixed feelings. About the so-called Old Testament he did not hear until he was an adult. Officially that book did not exist in the Third Reich. And that Jezus was a Jew was kept a secret, and not just there.

In his later life Claus sought contact with that missed book and got it. He recognized the big biblica story.

In the beginning there was the word. Which word was in the beginning?

Who looks at the Jewish explanation tradition of the bible, one gets to here that in the beginning the Torah was with god, even before he created heaven and the earth. Torah means the word that points people into a direction so that their lives will have been worth living.

In the beginning there was the word is not a philosophical quote but a prophetic voice that tells us that we should respect each other and live a humane life: love the person next to you. Love is not meant as a warm feeling but as a practical solidarity: that one does not let another person down, leaves that person in the cold, starve, torture, let disappear. "Love the foreigner living among you is the specific explanation of the word about caring for other people.
The stranger/foreigner is the "other person" who one has to love and take care of. Do not hunt him, do not chose her away, so it has been written. They have the same rights as you (Leviticus 19, verse 34)

Without this Torah there will be no humane future which will be worth living. "Light" is a synonym for the future, "for a world where people live with dignity. God said in the beginning, let there be light.

The word god is being said during church services much too frequently. Do we know who they mean with that? We could agree that with the word "god" we mean the one, found in the Jewish bible and in the writings about Jezus who speaks for the refugees, people who were banished, of people who's rights were violated; who want solidarity and justice rather than adoration and nice songs. As it is written (Amos 5, verse 21-24) in that book that is the basis for all christian faiths and should be the benchmark.

Claus understood very well that this voice of this book should not be heard in the years of his youth (Nazi regime). And he found it miraculous that it still exists, that vision of truth and justice. He tried his entire life to give concrete meaning to these large ideals and words and was creative and tireless in pursuing that goal.
 
It was many things -- but it happened during the second time I was required to read the Bible. It became clearer and clearer by the day that what I was reading not only wasn't true -- the superstitionism behind it was illogical. It didn't happen overnight.

Reading is not studying...just sayin'...
 
Back
Top Bottom