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Judaism Might Become A Nationality??? (Allegedly)

Dragonfly

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Trump to sign order to interpret Judaism as a nationality - CNNPolitics

So there's a rumor that Judaism might be Executive Ordered into a Nationality.

President Donald Trump will sign an executive order on Wednesday to interpret Judaism as a nationality and not just a religion

At the risk of bringing too much politics into this area of DP, I just want to know why and/or how this makes any sense at all?

Is Christianity a nationality?

How does it make sense to turn a religious belief into a nationality? Is that even Constitutional?
 
Trump to sign order to interpret Judaism as a nationality - CNNPolitics

So there's a rumor that Judaism might be Executive Ordered into a Nationality.



At the risk of bringing too much politics into this area of DP, I just want to know why and/or how this makes any sense at all?

Is Christianity a nationality?

How does it make sense to turn a religious belief into a nationality? Is that even Constitutional?

From the OP link - President Donald Trump will sign an executive order on Wednesday to interpret Judaism as a nationality and not just a religion, a move that the Trump administration believes will fight what they perceive as anti-Semitism on college campuses, a White House official said.


How does declaring Judaism as a nation fix perceived anti-Semitism on college campuses?
 
From the OP link - President Donald Trump will sign an executive order on Wednesday to interpret Judaism as a nationality and not just a religion, a move that the Trump administration believes will fight what they perceive as anti-Semitism on college campuses, a White House official said.


How does declaring Judaism as a nation fix perceived anti-Semitism on college campuses?

I have no clue.

Also, is there really a large problem with anti-semitism on college campuses within the US?
 
From the OP link - President Donald Trump will sign an executive order on Wednesday to interpret Judaism as a nationality and not just a religion, a move that the Trump administration believes will fight what they perceive as anti-Semitism on college campuses, a White House official said.


How does declaring Judaism as a nation fix perceived anti-Semitism on college campuses?
I have no clue.

Also, is there really a large problem with anti-semitism on college campuses within the US?
Let's see if we have this straight.
You two moral philosophers oppose a solution you don't understand to a problem you don't acknowledge.
Does that about sum it up?
 
From the OP link - President Donald Trump will sign an executive order on Wednesday to interpret Judaism as a nationality and not just a religion, a move that the Trump administration believes will fight what they perceive as anti-Semitism on college campuses, a White House official said.


How does declaring Judaism as a nation fix perceived anti-Semitism on college campuses?

My guess is that race/ethnicty is included (by rule or law?) on college student/staff personnel paperwork while religion is not.
 
Trump to sign order to interpret Judaism as a nationality - CNNPolitics

So there's a rumor that Judaism might be Executive Ordered into a Nationality.



At the risk of bringing too much politics into this area of DP, I just want to know why and/or how this makes any sense at all?

Is Christianity a nationality?

How does it make sense to turn a religious belief into a nationality? Is that even Constitutional?

Perhaps if you understood the fundamental difference between Judaism and (most) other religions it would be clearer.

Essentially, while there are rare examples of conversion to Judaism, according to the Torah one is typically born a Jew.

Judaism is traced down through the mother; i.e. if your mother is Jewish then YOU are Jewish regardless of whether or not you choose to actually follow the faith.

It is a reflection of their "tribal" history.
 
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Perhaps if you understood the fundamental difference between Judaism and (most) other religions it would be clearer.

Essentially, while there are rare examples of conversion to Judaism, according to the Torah (both the Jewish "bible" and their foundational law) one is typically born a Jew.

Judaism is traced down through the mother; i.e. if your mother is Jewish then YOU are Jewish regardless of whether or not you choose to actually follow the faith.

Conversion isn't really that rare is it?

Plus, aren't kids born to christian parents christians?

Why should the US government recognize the Torah as something to define a nationality around?

Why would Judaism get such special treatment in the USofA?

Also - what are some specific examples of antisemitism on college campuses?
 
I am wondering whether President Biden/Clinton/Warren et al. will rescind this order when s/he takes office in January, 2021.

As other posters have pointed out, designating said religion as an ethnicity gives its members extra protection under laws designed to protect current minorities.
 
What nationality would an American born Jew be if this order actually becomes a law?
 
Perhaps if you understood the fundamental difference between Judaism and (most) other religions it would be clearer.

Essentially, while there are rare examples of conversion to Judaism, according to the Torah one is typically born a Jew.

Judaism is traced down through the mother; i.e. if your mother is Jewish then YOU are Jewish regardless of whether or not you choose to actually follow the faith.

I see your point, but why should the Torah be the basis of US law?
 
I see your point, but why should the Torah be the basis of US law?

What makes a Native American "Native American?" How are the Sioux different from the Arapaho?

Yet we have law that identifies these tribal groups as both distinct units AND racial identities. They are distinct tribal groupings under the legal heading "Native American."

How then NOT allow this kind of differentiation for Jews?

Hasn't all historical persecution of the Jews as a "people" come down from both the fact that they have always held themselves as a distinct "people," and that Christians held them in disdain as a "people" who crucified Christ?
 
What nationality would an American born Jew be if this order actually becomes a law?

Recognized as American citizens and a member of the Jewish race; much like Black Americans, Native Americans, Hispanic Americans, etc.

BTW, American Jews, like Jews in other nations, hold dual citizenship; both U.S. and Israeli.
 
From the OP link - President Donald Trump will sign an executive order on Wednesday to interpret Judaism as a nationality and not just a religion, a move that the Trump administration believes will fight what they perceive as anti-Semitism on college campuses, a White House official said.


How does declaring Judaism as a nation fix perceived anti-Semitism on college campuses?

It will encourage antisemitism. It makes Jewish people 'other'.
 
Conversion isn't really that rare is it?

Plus, aren't kids born to christian parents christians?

Why should the US government recognize the Torah as something to define a nationality around?

Why would Judaism get such special treatment in the USofA?

Also - what are some specific examples of antisemitism on college campuses?

No, conversion is not really that rare. I know many Jewish converts. One was an ex-minister.

This will also give the mish mosh of 'who is Jewish', since the people who claim to be 'messianic jews' are not Jewish.
 
Trump to sign order to interpret Judaism as a nationality - CNNPolitics

So there's a rumor that Judaism might be Executive Ordered into a Nationality.

At the risk of bringing too much politics into this area of DP, I just want to know why and/or how this makes any sense at all?

Is Christianity a nationality?

How does it make sense to turn a religious belief into a nationality? Is that even Constitutional?

This might set up a 1st Amendment fight.

From the Trump Administration this started with several universities and colleges taking a similar position that the UN has taken with the long standing mess between Israel and the Palestinians, since most of these campuses tend to lean liberal I can see that translated to Jewish students feeling unwelcome if not outright attacked... just for being Jewish.

In a way this is the fault of these universities and colleges taking a fight happening elsewhere in the world and playing it out on these campuses against those who are Jewish.

The flip side of this is using an Executive Order to treat Judaism as a nationality and a religion weaponizes this political debate by silencing those who agree with rights activism positions that favor the Palestinians. Now these universities and colleges have to make a monetary choice.

If you agree with the Palestinians and offer that Israel is engaging in their version of apartheid, and they are now silenced because of the Executive Order that more or less pins these universities and colleges into playing the same political game. A lawsuit could be made, on the fence on that one.

When you offer policy that defines antisemitism as "denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination" as a nation then that inherently means acceptance of anything they do with the Palestinians or anyone else by linking this policy to the Civil Rights Act of 1964, were the Department of Education can withhold funding from any college that discriminates "on the ground of race, color, or national origin."

This feel good intention might create quite a mess for the courts to eventually deal with.
 
Recognized as American citizens and a member of the Jewish race; much like Black Americans, Native Americans, Hispanic Americans, etc.

BTW, American Jews, like Jews in other nations, hold dual citizenship; both U.S. and Israeli.

Not so. THey are eligible to get Israeli citizenship (even the converts), but that does not make them citizens automatically. Why are you misrepresenting things?
 
Let's see if we have this straight.
You two moral philosophers oppose a solution you don't understand to a problem you don't acknowledge.
Does that about sum it up?

What’s the deal with snippiness? I haven’t been near a college campus in 40 or more years. That’s why grammar has question marks. You are so well read in, why not answer the two questions in the posts you linked? .....and get some caffeine!
 
What if a Syrian born Muslim "claims" to have converted to Judaism?

1) how does one prove they're Jewish
2) how would one prove they're not Jewish
3) if determined to be Jewish, would they then have special privileges in the USofA if they came here

Is there a loophole for easier entrance to the US that might open up here?
 
What’s the deal with snippiness? I haven’t been near a college campus in 40 or more years. That’s why grammar has question marks. You are so well read in, why not answer the two questions in the posts you linked? .....and get some caffeine!

Ignore trolls. It's good for your health. :cheers:
 
I've read that this is a true concern for more than just a few folks.

As someone who was called 'Christ Killer' , and know people who have family members that went through the Holocaust , being labeled as 'other' is a concern. What's next?? Being forced to wear Stars of David?
 
What if a Syrian born Muslim "claims" to have converted to Judaism?

1) how does one prove they're Jewish
2) how would one prove they're not Jewish
3) if determined to be Jewish, would they then have special privileges in the USofA if they came here

Is there a loophole for easier entrance to the US that might open up here?

There are certain procedures to actually convert, including taking classes on the jewish religion, and customs. Because of that, converts tend to be more knowledgeable than many Jews who were born Jewish
 
What makes a Native American "Native American?"

Genes. DNA. Biology.



Question 1: As a WASP with vast majority being European ancestry, can I convert to being a "Native American"?

Question 2: Having been born and raised in Presbyterianism, can I convert to Judaism?
 
Oh I know that, but how would you prove or disprove if someone had completed them?

Certification for one, and testing for another. A muslim could also marry a Jewish person, and be eligible for the 'law of Return' , even if they do not convert.

Jews who convert to another religion, and Messianic Jews are NOT eligible for the "Law of Return"
 
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