[W:1,199]God is Real

Individual said:

And that's about all you're doing.

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bomberfox said:

Nope. This needs evidence.

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bomberfox said:

Your posts begin with the conclusion and work backwards. You have no real arguments

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Angel said:

That's all we're all doing.

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Individual said:

I only questioned your claim as most everyone else has done.
Essentially, you are passing time by wasting others time by making claims you're unable to support and go to great length avoiding questions.
I'll leave you to have the last word, and I'll continue to respond only to others who have something meaningful to say on the topic.

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Angel said:

GOD IS REAL

A Note on the Thread
Contrary to 2500 years of philosophy and natural philosophy and 400 years of modern science, as well as the last 15 years of militant atheism, the existence of God is not something to be known; it is not a matter of knowledge, the existence of God. No, the existence of God (to be distinguished conceptually from the nature of God, which is the province of religion and properly so) -- the existence of God is a matter of judgment, of discernment. The existence of God is a value, a value discovered in and through the things of the world. God, the existence of God, is the value discovered in the world by unclouded percipience.

The Argument

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
The eye of the beholder sees Beauty in a thing.

The eye of a second beholder may miss seeing the Beauty in the thing that the first beholder sees,
but sees Beauty in another thing.

Both see the Beauty of things, but in and through different things.

The eye of a third beholder may miss the Beauty of the things seen as Beautiful by the first and second beholders,
and yet see Beauty in a third thing.

All three see the Beauty of things in different things.
The Beauty they see is as Real as the things they see Beauty in.

A fourth beholder sees Beauty in nothing.
His eye is deficient: his eye is purblind.

Beauty is as Real as the world in which Beauty is seen.

Do you have an eye for Beauty?


God is in the eye of the beholder.
The eye of the beholder sees God in a thing.

The eye of a second beholder may miss God in that thing
and see God in another thing.

Both see God in things but in different things.

The eye of a third beholder may miss God in the two things
and see God in a third thing.

All three see God in different things.
God is as Real as the things they see God in.

A fourth beholder sees God in nothing.
His eye is deficient: his eye is purblind.

God is as Real as the world in which God is seen.

Do you have an eye for God?

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mrdeltoid said:

The state of the world is the result of free will, given to man by God. As stated in 1John 5:19 " We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. "

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bomberfox said:

Angel said:

Tips For the Perplexed​

Terms

Real = existing
Ideal = of the mind
Experience = of the senses

1. The world is Real. (Naive Realism)
2. The world as experienced is Real. (Empiricism)
3. The world as experienced is Ideal. (Idealism)
4. The world is the Ideal in the Real.

5. Beauty is Ideal.
6. Beauty is experienced in the Real.
7. Beauty is the Ideal in the Real.

8. God is Ideal.
9. God is experienced in the Real.
0. God is the Ideal in the Real.

The world, Beauty, and God all enjoy the same ontological status.

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The world is not the ideal in the real, the world and reality is not based in the ideal.
God is not experienced for a vast plenty of people. Your arguments do not logically follow.

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Individual said:

Nature is real, most of us agree. That's about all we can say.

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Fred C Dobbs said:

However is your conscience real? Where is it? Can you prove it exists?

Why do we have a conscience and how did it develop? It's a mystery and yet a conscience exists in mankind everywhere, in all cultures and societies, and even among animals.

Its existence is shrouded in mystery, much like other aspects of life which are seldom considered or easily explained.

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Angel said:

Please support your three assertions or retract them.

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Fred C Dobbs said:

However is your conscience real? Where is it? Can you prove it exists?

Why do we have a conscience and how did it develop? It's a mystery and yet a conscience exists in mankind everywhere, in all cultures and societies, and even among animals.

Its existence is shrouded in mystery, much like other aspects of life which are seldom considered or easily explained.

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Jetboogieman said:

At the very least if he does exist, pretty piss poor god in my opinion when you look at the state of the world.

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Individual said:

Is my "conscience" real?
Is that really what you're asking?

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stevecanuck said:

Therefore there's a god? (Btw, welcome to DP).

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RabidAlpaca said:

This is hilariously ironic considering you refuse to support any of your wacky assertions. When asked to, you start screeching and demand we leave the thread. Support your assertion that god is real or you have no right to demand evidence from anyone else.

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Angel said:

GOD IS REAL

A Note on the Thread
Contrary to 2500 years of philosophy and natural philosophy and 400 years of modern science, as well as the last 15 years of militant atheism, the existence of God is not something to be known; it is not a matter of knowledge, the existence of God. No, the existence of God (to be distinguished conceptually from the nature of God, which is the province of religion and properly so) -- the existence of God is a matter of judgment, of discernment. The existence of God is a value, a value discovered in and through the things of the world. God, the existence of God, is the value discovered in the world by unclouded percipience.

The Argument

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
The eye of the beholder sees Beauty in a thing.

The eye of a second beholder may miss seeing the Beauty in the thing that the first beholder sees,
but sees Beauty in another thing.

Both see the Beauty of things, but in and through different things.

The eye of a third beholder may miss the Beauty of the things seen as Beautiful by the first and second beholders,
and yet see Beauty in a third thing.

All three see the Beauty of things in different things.
The Beauty they see is as Real as the things they see Beauty in.

A fourth beholder sees Beauty in nothing.
His eye is deficient: his eye is purblind.

Beauty is as Real as the world in which Beauty is seen.

Do you have an eye for Beauty?


God is in the eye of the beholder.
The eye of the beholder sees God in a thing.

The eye of a second beholder may miss God in that thing
and see God in another thing.

Both see God in things but in different things.

The eye of a third beholder may miss God in the two things
and see God in a third thing.

All three see God in different things.
God is as Real as the things they see God in.

A fourth beholder sees God in nothing.
His eye is deficient: his eye is purblind.

God is as Real as the world in which God is seen.

Do you have an eye for God?​

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Angel said:

Tips For the Perplexed​

Terms

Real = existing
Ideal = of the mind
Experience = of the senses

1. The world is Real. (Naive Realism)
2. The world as experienced is Real. (Empiricism)
3. The world as experienced is Ideal. (Idealism)
4. The world is the Ideal in the Real.

5. Beauty is Ideal.
6. Beauty is experienced in the Real.
7. Beauty is the Ideal in the Real.

8. God is Ideal.
9. God is experienced in the Real.
0. God is the Ideal in the Real.

The world, Beauty, and God all enjoy the same ontological status.

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Angel said:

When your hilarity subsides, look up the meaning of the word "irony."
Here below, already posted, is the support for my assertion that God is real, followed by some helpful tips that you would do well to consider:

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Angel said:

Tips For the Perplexed​

Terms

Real = existing
Ideal = of the mind
Experience = of the senses

1. The world is Real. (Naive Realism)
2. The world as experienced is Real. (Empiricism)
3. The world as experienced is Ideal. (Idealism)
4. The world is the Ideal in the Real.

5. Beauty is Ideal.
6. Beauty is experienced in the Real.
7. Beauty is the Ideal in the Real.

8. God is Ideal.
9. God is experienced in the Real.
0. God is the Ideal in the Real.

The world, Beauty, and God all enjoy the same ontological status.

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Logicman said:

<facepalm>

Once again your theology is faulty.

Response:

Mark 9:1 notes, "Until they have seen the kingdom of God come with power;"

First, what is the Kingdom of God? Romans 14:17 answers that: "For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

Furthermore, in Luke chapter 11:14, Jesus drove out a demon that had left a man mute. The mute was healed. Then, in Luke 11:20, Jesus said, “But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, THEN THE KINGDOM OF GOD HAS COME TO YOU.”

The Kingdom of God is also Jesus being seen in a Kingdom appearance (more on that later).

When did it come with power? In Acts 1:8: “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

So, the power would come by virtue of the Holy Spirit. When did that happen?

It (the power) happened in Acts chapter two, verses 1-4: "When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them."

After that, Act 5:12 notes the miracles and power of the disciples: "And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people."

But when did some of the disciples see Jesus coming in his kingdom?

"It is that Jesus’ Transfiguration occurs next in the synoptists’ accounts (Mt 17.1-8; Mk 9.2-8; Lk 9.28-36a). Jesus took Peter, James, and John “up a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became dazzling white. Suddenly there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him” (Mt 17.1-3). From a literary perspective, it seems pretty obvious that all three synoptists intended for their readers to understand that Jesus referred to his upcoming Transfiguration when he said some disciples would see him coming in his kingdom before they die."
Did Jesus’ Disciples See “the Son of Man Coming in his Kingdom”? | Kermit Zarley

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You're busted.

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Angel said:

When your hilarity subsides, look up the meaning of the word "irony."
Here below, already posted, is the support for my assertion that God is real, followed by some helpful tips that you would do well to consider:

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RabidAlpaca said:

Total nonsense that at no point stumbles anywhere near to proving god. Vomiting your unsubstantiated opinions into internet forums is not proof.

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Fred C Dobbs said:

Thanks for the welcome.

It's a theory put forward by CS Lewis in 'Mere Christianity'. The question of conscience, and why we have guilt, shame, etc., is an interesting one. Perhaps things aren't as simple as they seem.

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stevecanuck said:

I'm sure it all has something to do with evolutionary necessity for the survival of the species.

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Fred C Dobbs said:

You may be right but how is a conscience necessary to human survival or advancement? Why not telepathy or other non visible abilities that may help in the evolutionary process? CS Lewis puts the argument forward a lot better than me, btw.

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