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IF the Big Bang is true then how.....?

Daisy

Daisy

"Make sure of the more important things."
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For heavens sake you believe they came from a rock!:2razz:

 
oops - sorry I though this was a thread about Sheldon Cooper and friends.
 
Elvira said:
For heavens sake you believe they came from a rock!:2razz:

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OK, since things (matter and energy) can't create themselves is accepted then who/what created this god (fellow?) who then (allegedly) created everything else out of nothing? Regardless of what one believes to have started it all it also has to have had a beginning. Whether you call that a "big bang" or god makes no difference at all.
 
Elvira said:
For heavens sake you believe they came from a rock!:2razz:

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I think it best if you stay away from Science. If you do want to go the science route, may I suggest you stay away from Hovind.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
OK, since things (matter and energy) can't create themselves is accepted then who/what created this god (fellow?) who then (allegedly) created everything else out of nothing? Regardless of what one believes to have started it all it also has to have had a beginning. Whether you call that a "big bang" or god makes no difference at all.
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You get that that is the exact point he is making as well as the concession re the origins of God. Right?
 
Elvira said:
For heavens sake you believe they came from a rock!:2razz:

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You are welcome to believe that God made the big bang as long as you admit there is no evidence of anything else he has done since and the universe has been on its own for 13.8 Billion years. That is what science has found.
 
VanceMack said:
You get that that is the exact point he is making as well as the concession re the origins of God. Right?
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Ok, yet that is not a valid argument for one over the other. The main purpose of (organized) religion is not to explain why things are - it is to put certain (chosen by god?) men in charge of making/enforcing rules.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Ok, yet that is not a valid argument for one over the other. The main purpose of (organized) religion is not to explain why things are - it is to put certain (chosen by god?) men in charge of making/enforcing rules.
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Did you actually watch the video? Seriously...Im not sure what the confusion is here.
 
iguanaman said:
You are welcome to believe that God made the big bang as long as you admit there is no evidence of anything else he has done since and the universe has been on its own for 13.8 Billion years. That is what science has found.
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Whether a God made the big bang or not is irrelevant to the point. His point is that people mock rligious peple for a belief...faith...in a God when the only answer that CANT be given is what is the origin of God? a question to which he freely admits....dont know...cant answer it. What he states though is easily modeled here...now...from you.

Where did the matter and energy come from in the vast expanse of nothing that MUST have existed prior to the big bang all come from?
 
iguanaman said:
You are welcome to believe that God made the big bang as long as you admit there is no evidence of anything else he has done since and the universe has been on its own for 13.8 Billion years. That is what science has found.
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I don't believe that God made the big bang...He did not need it...
 
VanceMack said:
Whether a God made the big bang or not is irrelevant to the point. His point is that people mock rligious peple for a belief...faith...in a God when the only answer that CANT be given is what is the origin of God? a question to which he freely admits....dont know...cant answer it. What he states though is easily modeled here...now...from you.

Where did the matter and energy come from in the vast expanse of nothing that MUST have existed prior to the big bang all come from?
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My belief is that the collapse of the last universe into a super giant black hole reached critical mass and exploded. It's as good as any theory. We now know that our universe is destined for the same fate. All matter in the universe will eventually be swallowed up by the black holes in the center of every galaxy and then they will eat each other. It is inevitable due to the effects of gravity. That is why the Higgs boson is called the "God particle". :lol: Without it there would be no universe. Just a bunch of hydrogen atoms floating around in nothingness.
 
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I don't understand why any fundamentalist thinks that it's necessary to jump into any debate about science. I think it's perfectly fine for individuals to choose not believe in science, in the comfort of their own homes, but why choose to promote dumb arguments that always fall flat? I don't feel the need to convince flat-earthers that the earth is round or creationists that evolution is real. What's the point?
 
iguanaman said:
My belief is that the collapse of the last universe into a super giant black hole reached critical mass and exploded. It's as good as any theory. We now know that our universe is destined for the same fate.
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great theory. Nothing wrong with that.Now...where did THAT matter come from? Is it your position then that all matter and energy is eternal? It just existed?
 
Elvira said:
I don't believe that God made the big bang...He did not need it...
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I don't sweat the details. I believe that whatever happened, in whatever manner on whatever timescale, God was in control and it was all according to His will.

As for those details, well I wasn't around at the time and neither was any other man, so it is all speculation. Maybe "let there be light" was the BB, or maybe not, I decline to fret over it.

I don't know what the first few time periods of existence were like, I didn't see it or experience it, nor did you, nor did Steven Hawking. God, however, I do know... because I have experienced Him.

Works for me.
 
MrPeanut said:
I don't understand why any fundamentalist thinks that it's necessary to jump into any debate about science. I think it's perfectly fine for individuals to choose not believe in science, in the comfort of their own homes, but why choose to promote dumb arguments that always fall flat? I don't feel the need to convince flat-earthers that the earth is round or creationists that evolution is real. What's the point?
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Why do you believe that religious people dont believe in science?
 
Goshin said:
I don't sweat the details. I believe that whatever happened, in whatever manner on whatever timescale, God was in control and it was all according to His will.

As for those details, well I wasn't around at the time and neither was any other man, so it is all speculation. Maybe "let there be light" was the BB, or maybe not, I decline to fret over it.

I don't know what the first few time periods of existence were like, I didn't see it or experience it, nor did you, nor did Steven Hawking. God, however, I do know... because I have experienced Him.

Works for me.
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Well, I think, considering that many scientists believe that the big bang was a spontaneous, undirected event that led to the self-arranging of particles of matter into stars and planets over a period of time, the Bible does not support that view but states that the formation of the universe was a direct act of God, whether He employed some sort of cosmic explosion or some other method of creation...it just didn't happen...
 
VanceMack said:
Why do you believe that religious people dont believe in science?
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Exactly...God authored science...man merely discovered what was already there through God's creation...
 
VanceMack said:
great theory. Nothing wrong with that.Now...where did THAT matter come from? Is it your position then that all matter and energy is eternal? It just existed?
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Like I said in my first post we will probably never know where the energy came from and you are free to say it came from God. Then I will ask you where God came from? It's a circular argument with no end. Perhaps God did create the Higgs boson since it is the true creator of the universe. But then who created him?
 
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VanceMack said:
Whether a God made the big bang or not is irrelevant to the point. His point is that people mock rligious peple for a belief...faith...in a God when the only answer that CANT be given is what is the origin of God? a question to which he freely admits....dont know...cant answer it. What he states though is easily modeled here...now...from you.

Where did the matter and energy come from in the vast expanse of nothing that MUST have existed prior to the big bang all come from?
Click to expand...

The difference between scientists and religious pseudo scientists is that scientists aren’t compelled to make up fairytales about big invisible men in the sky to fill in the gaps. No scientist claims to know where the singularity came from or insists that people just accept speculation about such things as fact for lack of a better option. Scientists are comfortable with the words “I don’t know.” And that’s always been a problem for the religious over the centuries. Their god of the gaps has been whittled down to a nub.
 
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Elvira said:
Well, I think, considering that many scientists believe that the big bang was a spontaneous, undirected event that led to the self-arranging of particles of matter into stars and planets over a period of time, the Bible does not support that view but states that the formation of the universe was a direct act of God, whether He employed some sort of cosmic explosion or some other method of creation...it just didn't happen...
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Obviously that is where persons of faith, like us, part company with science and scientists.

I understand though, why they usually don't include God in their calculations (actually some do.. I remember a particular physicist some years back who, when asked what caused or preceeded the BB answered "God", and a large minority of scientists are believers of some sort). Science deals with the physical universe and looks for physical causes and explanations of things, leaving the theology to theologians, for the most part. If at any point in trying to understand the physical universe they just stop at X and say "well beyond this point we don't really know so it must be God-stuff", they would be stopping in their mission to understand the physical universe (as best they can given the limitations of humanity).

So I don't begrudge scientists their theories. I think where people go wrong on the theology/science "clash" is when they try to completely replace the one with the other.

Personally I don't think there has to be a clash. Science is good at explaining "what" and "how" in useful ways... theology at explaining the big "WHY". Each has its place, IMHO.

Leaves blow in the wind. Science can tell you what wind is, and calculate the dynamics of how wind affects leaves. But it is equally true that leaves blow in the wind because God wills it so, and because it is beautiful to behold.

When all is said and done my faith is in God first and foremost. But I also find science useful and of value.
 
Napoleon said:
The difference between scientists and religious pseudo scientists is that scientists aren’t compelled to make up fairytales about big invisible men in the sky to fill in the gaps. No scientist claims to know where the singularity came from or insists that people just accept speculation about such things as fact for lack of a better option. Scientists are comfortable with the words “I don’t know.” And that’s always been a problem for the religious over the centuries. Their god of the gaps has been whittled down to a nub.
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Take away your hatred and bigotry and you will find that what you said essentially mirrors the comments made in the video.
 
iguanaman said:
Like I said in my first post we will probably never know where the energy came from and you are free to say it came from God. Then I will ask you where God came from? It's a circular argument with no end. Perhaps God did create the Higgs boson since it is the true creator of the universe. But then who created him?
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That is precisely the point of the video. Literally.
 
MrPeanut said:
fundamentalists
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Fundamentalists believe in God...Godly works...but that does not mean that they dont believe in science as well.
 
Elvira said:
For heavens sake you believe they came from a rock!:2razz:

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Before you go further, yhou have to know 'what is the big bang'? Can you describe what the big bang is? I bet you can't.
 
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