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Scientifically Wrong Answers OK, if Religious?

Christian values were in the heart of virtually every great president, ideologue, and statesman the US ever had... for over two centuries.

It's only been the past five decades where the left has purposed to push Christianity completely out of the public sphere, relegating it to the fringes.

Nope. Christianity was pushed out of the public sphere by the founding fathers of this country. It's only been since the 1950s, with the push to put "In God We Trust" on our currency again, playing on cold-war neuroses and paranoias, that it has ominously started to push its way back in.

"'The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"
-John Adams

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution...In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty, may have found an established Clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just Government instituted to secure & perpetuate it needs them not.”
-James Madison

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

"They [the Christian clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn... eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion."
-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800

“Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory..., more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, it renders the heart torpid or produces only atheists or fanatics. As an engine of power, it serves the purpose of despotism, and as a means of wealth, the avarice of priests, but so far as respects the good of man in general it leads to nothing here or hereafter.”
― Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

"“There is nothing in which mankind have been more unanimous [founding nations upon religion and superstition]; yet nothing can be inferred from it more than this: that the multitude have always been credulous, and the few artful. The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature: and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history... [T]he detail of the formation of the American governments... may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had any interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the inspiration of heaven... it will for ever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses... Thirteen governments thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favour of the rights of mankind.”
[A Defence of the Constitutions of the United States of America, 1787]”
― John Adams, The Political Writings of John Adams
 
WTF moment here, for sure.

Ohio House passes bill allowing student answers to be scientifically wrong due to religion | WKRC



Which idiots thought this was a good idea?


Oh, THOSE idiots.

It's part and parcel with the Republican race to the bottom in America. First obliterate the manufacturing sector by outsourcing all their business buddy's human capital to cheap countries like China, India and Bangladesh. Then, when it becomes clear that the U.S. can't compete in the global market against those countries, start destroying the workers unions to create cheap labor domestically. Then, when people fight back, start slashing public education so that future generations are too stupid to form effective resistance.

The stupidity and ignorance on full display in this thread is an utter embarrassment. Really, I am ashamed that I came from the same country as some of you people, who want to argue and equivocate on something as scientifically basic as evolution. Go to school, take some intro science classes, learn how evolution actually works and let it be proven to you.

You people are an embarrassment. The world is laughing at us.
 
That's why I used "apparently". I've brought this issue up repeatedly, and you keep dodging. Please engage in honest debate:

The fact is there are thousands of sects of Christianity, each disagreeing with every other sect regarding the meaning of the words in the bible. Possible explanations are Yahweh incapable of writing a book with the coherence of a typical Middle Schools student. Or Yahweh is a deceiver, and doesn't want people to understand.

What's your explanation?

My explanation is that you don't know what you are talking about. This is not a "dodge". I have given you multiple chances to prove what you say, and you cant.
 
It's a gross exaggeration of the obvious outcome of this practice.

When you are allowed to substitute the answer that the bible says is right instead of the one that is in keeping with consensus reality.

I don't want anyone anywhere near anything to do with my safety if they might just decide at some point to "let Jesus take the wheel", to be honest.

I don't want anybody near anything to do with my safety if they think boys are girls and girls are boys. They might try to force a male connector into another male connector and burn the house down.
 
I don't want anybody near anything to do with my safety if they think boys are girls and girls are boys. They might try to force a male connector into another male connector and burn the house down.

Not really, because if an electrician can't use anything other than male and female connectors, you are going to have a pretty limited capability.

"By definition, a hermaphroditic connector includes mating surfaces having simultaneous male and female aspects, involving complementary paired identical parts each containing both protrusions and indentations. These mating surfaces are mounted into identical fittings which can freely mate with any other, without regard for gender (provided that the size and type are already matched). Alternative names include hermaphrodite, androgynous, genderless, sexless, combination (or combo), two-in-one, two-way, and other descriptive terms. Several of these latter alternate names are ambiguous in meaning, and should not be used unless carefully defined in context. True hermaphroditic connectors should not be confused with mixed gender connectors, which are described elsewhere in this article....

The hermaphroditic design is useful when multiple complex or lengthy components must be arbitrarily connected in various combinations. For example, if hoses have hermaphroditic fittings, they can be connected without having to pull a lengthy hose and reverse it because it has the wrong gender to connect to another hose. Some military fiber optical cables also have hermaphroditic connectors to prevent "wrong gender" connector problems in field deployments. In a similar fashion, railcars are usually equipped with hermaphroditic railway coupling mechanisms that allow either end of the vehicle to be connected to a train without having to turn the railcar around first. For the same reason, several spacecraft docking mechanisms are designed to be "androgynous", including the Androgynous Peripheral Attach System, the NASA Docking System, and Chinese Docking Mechanism.

In the absence of genderless connectors, gender changer fittings might be used to enable certain connections. The designer of a connection system may use one or both schemes to allow arbitrary connectivity, or even combine both schemes into a single system....

Devices used for mating two connectors of the same gender have a wide variety of terms, including for example: "gender changer", "gender mender", "gender bender", "gender blender", "sex changer", and "homosexual adapter".[11] A specific gender changer can be referred to by either the gender of its connectors, or the gender which it is designed to connect to, resulting in a thoroughly ambiguous terminology. Thus a "male gender changer" might have female connectors to mate two male ends, or male connectors to mate two female ends.

See? When you have an open mind, you have more possibilities and capabilities. It's not all bad!:)
 
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I don't want anybody near anything to do with my safety if they think boys are girls and girls are boys. They might try to force a male connector into another male connector and burn the house down.

That's what circuit breakers are for.
 
My explanation is that you don't know what you are talking about. This is not a "dodge". I have given you multiple chances to prove what you say, and you cant.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I've been trying to get you to answer a question for pages now, and you do everything but. Please just answer the question, or explain where I am wrong.

The fact is there are thousands of sects of Christianity, each disagreeing with every other sect regarding the meaning of the words in the bible. Possible explanations are Yahweh incapable of writing a book with the coherence of a typical Middle Schools student. Or Yahweh is a deceiver, and doesn't want people to understand.

What's your explanation?
 
Christian values were in the heart of virtually every great president, ideologue, and statesman the US ever had... for over two centuries.

Well that's a load of BS.

Christian values include slavery, genocide, murder, rape. It's all in the bible, Yahweh/Jesus command and condone it. How are those at the heart of a great president?

You want to know Evangelical Christian values, just look at Trump's values, those are the values Evangelical Christian's support. Not what they pay lip service to, but what they actually support and vote for.
 
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I have no idea what you're talking about. I've been trying to get you to answer a question for pages now, and you do everything but. Please just answer the question, or explain where I am wrong.

The fact is there are thousands of sects of Christianity, each disagreeing with every other sect regarding the meaning of the words in the bible. Possible explanations are Yahweh incapable of writing a book with the coherence of a typical Middle Schools student. Or Yahweh is a deceiver, and doesn't want people to understand.

What's your explanation?

I know you don't know what I am talking about. You don't know what you are talking about, either.
 
Not really, because if an electrician can't use anything other than male and female connectors, you are going to have a pretty limited capability.



See? When you have an open mind, you have more possibilities and capabilities. It's not all bad!:)

More ways to burn the house down.....
 
Maybe not being stupid in the first place is more efficient?

Exactly.

Not doing stupid things like thinking the old ways are always best, and insisting on using candles on your Xmas tree instead of LED lights, even when it's obvious how stupid that is.

Not doing stupid things like limiting oneself to only ever looking at the world in one specific way, when sometimes it's advantageous to look at the world from different angles.
 
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I know you don't know what I am talking about. You don't know what you are talking about, either.

Nope, that's deflection and running away. Maybe pray to your god for an answer? Here it is again:

The fact is there are thousands of sects of Christianity, each disagreeing with every other sect regarding the meaning of the words in the bible. Possible explanations are Yahweh incapable of writing a book with the coherence of a typical Middle Schools student. Or Yahweh is a deceiver, and doesn't want people to understand.

What's your explanation?
 
Exactly.

Not doing stupid things like thinking the old ways are always best, and insisting on using candles on your Xmas tree instead of LED lights, even when it's obvious how stupid that is.

Not doing stupid things like limiting oneself to only ever looking at the world in one specific way, when sometimes it's advantageous to look at the world from different angles.

This is just mental masturbation.
 
Nope, that's deflection and running away. Maybe pray to your god for an answer? Here it is again:

The fact is there are thousands of sects of Christianity, each disagreeing with every other sect regarding the meaning of the words in the bible. Possible explanations are Yahweh incapable of writing a book with the coherence of a typical Middle Schools student. Or Yahweh is a deceiver, and doesn't want people to understand.

What's your explanation?

My answer is the same as it has been. Nothing you say has any resemblance to fact. How am I supposed to explain your inability to understand that? The problem is yours, not Gods, not mine.
 
If I, as a plumber, don't understand pressure then I will be unable to be a good plumber. If I don't believe that the pressure of water increases with the depth of that water I will be unable to be a good plumber. I will not understand where you can or cannot fit a gravity fed shower. I will not understand which orifice to put in a WC cistern float valve.
All of these examples pertain to practical skills. They aren't remotely comparable to beliefs on ancient history.

A fair example: Me coming in here saying you're disqualified from being a plumber because you believe the ancient Phoenicians had an extensive aqueduct system despite xyz historical evidence to the contrary.

Would you accept a flat earther navigating your passenger aircraft? Neither would the civil air authorities.
I absolutely would, and so would the authorities if he could pass his exams and competently pilot the aircraft. He can use the instrumentation. He can fly the plane and demonstrate proficiency in every task the job requires of him. Who gives a damn what he thinks about the geometry of the Earth? Only Tim the Plumber, who apparently can't distinguish between practical skills and blue-sky theory.
 
If you believe there is a invisible magical being that is going to be appearing on earth shortly and fixing all the problems, you don't have to worry about polluting the earth.
God set man in a position of stewardship over the Earth, to tend and to keep it. The Bible makes this plain.

If Christians don't abide by the tenets of the Bible, don't blame the Bible.

Muslim and Christian participants' opinions about climate change and CCS technologies were shaped by the importance of environmental stewardship and intergenerational justice. Both groups had relatively low perceptions of urgency for environmental issues, particularly climate change, due to beliefs in an afterlife and divine intervention.
This is a diplomatic way of saying that Muslims and Christians aren't losing their minds panicking over AGW as quickly as TPTB would like them to.

Scripture makes plain the fact that the end times are marked by increasingly severe weather, drought, famine, pestilence, and earthquakes, to a historically unprecedented degree, and on a global scale. Any Christian who believes it's not going to get a lot worse before it gets better isn't reading and understanding their Bible.

Why bother doing anything about industry polluting the water supply when you don't understand that this will increase cancer rates.
Polluting the water has nothing to do with carbon or climate change.
 
Nope. Christianity was pushed out of the public sphere by the founding fathers of this country.
You've got six quotes from three men, noted as being among the most anti-Christian ideologues of their time.

Three men versus literally hundreds of Christian founders in a nation that was well over 95% Christian for centuries before and after its founding.

I'll grant you many of the founders were concerned by the tyranny of the Catholic and Anglican Churches, and soundly rejected the idea of monarchy. But to equate these institutions with Christian values and Christianity itself... not an equivalence they claimed, and not one you should claim.
 
All of these examples pertain to practical skills. They aren't remotely comparable to beliefs on ancient history.

The understanding of river errosion and deposition is the basis of hydrology. Without a very good understanding of this you cannot be a decent hydrologist. If you understand this stuff you cannot believe in a world flood because every valley in teh world says it has never happen. The evidence is obvious, overwhelming, unmissable if you have the slightest clue about river errosion.

Thus it is not possible to be a decent hydrologist and beleive in a world flood.


A fair example: Me coming in here saying you're disqualified from being a plumber because you believe the ancient Phoenicians had an extensive aqueduct system despite xyz historical evidence to the contrary.

How would the details of Phoenician aqueducts, which I have not seen (although I think I may of..), cause me to have any trouble with modern plumbing? Did it opperate under different laws of physics?


Originally Posted by Tim the plumber View Post
Would you accept a flat earther navigating your passenger aircraft? Neither would the civil air authorities.
I absolutely would, and so would the authorities if he could pass his exams and competently pilot the aircraft. He can use the instrumentation. He can fly the plane and demonstrate proficiency in every task the job requires of him. Who gives a damn what he thinks about the geometry of the Earth? Only Tim the Plumber, who apparently can't distinguish between practical skills and blue-sky theory.

That's the trouble. The navigator would neot be able to pass those exams if he did not use the globe earth model to navigate. Though. The distance between NewYork and London and the course you will need to fly to get between the 2 in a straight line will not work on a flat earth. Never. You will get lost.
 
God set man in a position of stewardship over the Earth, to tend and to keep it. The Bible makes this plain.

If you want your kids to believe nonsense like this, and more specifically be taught nonsense like this, then you have a few choices:

1) home school
2) religious private school
3) church bible school


As for public schools, that craziness has no place.
 
If you want your kids to believe nonsense like this, and more specifically be taught nonsense like this, then you have a few choices:

1) home school
2) religious private school
3) church bible school


As for public schools, that craziness has no place.

I beg to differ, government schools are just the place for craziness.
 
The understanding of river errosion and deposition is the basis of hydrology. Without a very good understanding of this you cannot be a decent hydrologist. If you understand this stuff you cannot believe in a world flood because every valley in teh world says it has never happen. The evidence is obvious, overwhelming, unmissable if you have the slightest clue about river errosion.

Thus it is not possible to be a decent hydrologist and beleive in a world flood.
It may surprise you to learn that many learned men, hydrologists among them, understand erosion and deposition perfectly, and have numerous theories reconciling observed erosion/deposition with the account of the Deluge.

I'm not going to argue these theories here, but suffice it to say you're arguing from ignorance about what competent hydrologists can and can't believe.

How would the details of Phoenician aqueducts, which I have not seen (although I think I may of..), cause me to have any trouble with modern plumbing? Did it opperate under different laws of physics?
That's just my point. There's no connection between skepticism or belief in ancient history and modern competency in plumbing.

Likewise, there's no connection between skepticism or belief in the Deluge and modern competency in the field of hydrology. You can have a sound, practical understanding of every process, tool, and physical model and also a belief in the Deluge, despite your ignorant insistence to the contrary.

That's the trouble. The navigator would neot be able to pass those exams if he did not use the globe earth model to navigate. Though. The distance between NewYork and London and the course you will need to fly to get between the 2 in a straight line will not work on a flat earth. Never. You will get lost.
The navigator doesn't compute the distance. The navigator follows his instrumentation, and so long as he does, he doesn't get lost.

I'll grant you it would be very difficult to maintain a belief in a flat Earth if one studied the computations that went into navigational equipment and understood that they're based on a spherical model of the Earth, but 99% of navigators are never going to do this. They're going to take it for granted that the consensus is correct and that their instruments are based on valid geometry. The simple fact of the matter is that one doesn't need to know the underlying geometry of the Earth to use navigational instruments for aircraft. One simply needs to understand local coordinate systems and how to operate the software.
 
I beg to differ, government schools are just the place for craziness.

i-see-what-you-did-there.jpg
 
If you want your kids to believe nonsense like this, and more specifically be taught nonsense like this, then you have a few choices:

1) home school
2) religious private school
3) church bible school
Fine by me.

As for public schools, that craziness has no place.
@JustHanging is scolding Christians for not believing men are stewards of the planet and taking the responsibility seriously. Now you're scolding them for believing men are stewards of the planet, calling it "craziness".

Maybe we should flip a coin. :shrug:
 
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