There was No Empty TombꟷThe Gospel’s Resurrection Accounts Never Occurred

Guno · Nov 10, 2019

anointing a body three days later doesn't fall in line with any Jewish tradition

JustHanging · Nov 10, 2019

Marxistleninist said:
anointing a body three days later doesn't fall in line with any Jewish tradition

There are becoming an increasing number of scholars who, based on the evidence, are coming to the conclusion that the Jesus person never existed, let alone a god name Jesus.

Paul is an ex-theist who knows his bible inside out, and has done a lot of research. Here he is debunking the common argument that disciples gave their lives rather than recant that Jesus rose from the grave. William Lane Craig has responded to his videos with counter videos of his own.

EDIT: Here is the video William Lane Craig felt he had to respond to:

They've gone back and forth a couple of times now in video form. Of course Paulogia is the more mature debater, with WLC sometimes launching into personal attacks as his "argument," instead of actually addressing the points Paulogia raised.

tosca1 · Nov 12, 2019

JustHanging said:
They've gone back and forth a couple of times now in video form. Of course Paulogia is the more mature debater, with WLC sometimes launching into personal attacks as his "argument," instead of actually addressing the points Paulogia raised.

Can you please provide the link to WLC's responses - just so we know what these alleged "personal attacks" are.

Btw, never heard of Paulogia - so thanks to you for these videos.

Lovebug · Nov 12, 2019

The time people spend obsessing about something they think doesn't exist.

tosca1 · Nov 12, 2019

JustHanging said:
Paul is an ex-theist who knows his bible inside out, and has done a lot of research.

I'm just wondering - if this Paulogia has done so many research - surely he must know that young earth creationism - which apparently ended up wrecking his faith - is not the only Christian belief out there?

Why was he stuck on young earth? It's not like as if he's a mediocre student - as he claimed to have done so well in school!

If people with less intelligence and education had done their research (and you see some of them have become robust apologists)……….what happened to him?

Hasn't he heard of Francis Collins and other former atheist scientists who ended up converting to Christianity? Surely, he should've read about them?
They claim that religion and science went along well! Even William lane Craig had claimed that Christians can follow where scientific evidence leads.

And yet, there he was.....got stuck and stumped on dinosaurs and young earth! How can Paulogia claim to have done his research well?

I don't know how you know that he knows the Bible inside out....I don't claim to be that well-versed with the Bible, but I'm telling you - Creation account doesn't have to be taken literally, days-wise. Although there's nothing wrong for a believer to believe that the earth is young.
The age of earth wasn't the focal point in Genesis. The message is that, God is the Creator.

And we see some drips of information about the universe, scattered all over the Bible - descriptions that only the Creator would know.

Paulogia's done his research, he knows his Bible "inside out," he's well-read - so, why was he stuck in young earth?

Now......this is not a personal attack on this young man. These are logical questions...………………………. due to how you described him.

tosca1 · Nov 12, 2019

Marxistleninist said:
anointing a body three days later doesn't fall in line with any Jewish tradition

:roll:

He's asking why did the women wait three days before anointing the dead body of Jesus? Who would anoint a rotting body?

Well - according to 4 Gospel account, Joseph of Arimathea had asked for Jesus body right after He died. Joseph would've undoubtedly prepared the body for burial! Jesus was anointed!

John 19
The Burial of Jesus
38 Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away.
39 He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds.
40 Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs.

We don't know exactly why the women had decided to anoint Him (again). Maybe they wanted to do more - considering Jesus was very much revered and loved.

Or, maybe they weren't sure if He got anointed according to custom....thus, they felt they had to do it even if the body was rotting!

Or, maybe, the thought that His body would've been rotting after three days had not occurred to them!

tosca1 · Nov 12, 2019

Marxistleninist said:
anointing a body three days later doesn't fall in line with any Jewish tradition

So is healing the sick during Sabbath! And yet, Jesus did!

Lol. If you're using Jewish tradition as an argument - man, that's pathetic.

Here's Jesus' tirade about tradition!

Mark 7

5 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?”

6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7
They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’

8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”
9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!

10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’[d] and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’
11 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)—
12 then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother.
13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

Did the disciples seem like they're so concerned with tradition?
And, you think His closest followers would care a whit about tradition in anointing His body? :lol:

tosca1 · Nov 12, 2019

Marxistleninist said:
anointing a body three days later doesn't fall in line with any Jewish tradition

Hahahaha - who's this clown? I watched some more......he goes on and on about spices, and the smell of a rotting body! :lamo

Yooooo-hoooooo? hello?

Didn't these women know about Lazarus? Lazarus was dead, how many days? FOUR DAYS!

John 11

38 Jesus, once more deeply moved, came to the tomb. It was a cave with a stone laid across the entrance.
39 “Take away the stone,” he said.
“But, Lord,” said Martha, the sister of the dead man, “by this time there is a bad odor, for he has been there four days.”

40 Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”

1 So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me.
42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me.”
43 When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!”
44 The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face.
Jesus said to them, “Take off the grave clothes and let him go.”

Btw, the resurrection of Lazarus parallels the Resurrection of Christ!

tosca1 · Nov 12, 2019

tosca1 · Nov 12, 2019

This is a very long read!

JESUS OF NAZARETH’S TRIAL IN THE UNCENSORED TALMUD

Summary
The Munich Talmud manuscript of b.San.43a preserves passages censored out of the printed editions, including the controversial trial of ‘Yeshu Notzri’. Chronological analysis of the layers in this tradition suggests that the oldest words are: ‘On the Eve of Passover they hung Jesus of Nazareth for sorcery and leading Israel astray.’
This paper argues that other words were added to this tradition in order to overcome three difficulties: a trial date during a festival; the unbiblical method of execution; and the charge of ‘sorcery’.

10. Conclusions

The traditions about the trials of Jesus and his disciples which were censored from b.San.43a were brought into the Talmudic discussions early in the Third Century and removed in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries. External evidence gives independent witness that the earliest core in this tradition was: ‘On the Eve of Passover, they hung Jesus of Nazareth for sorcery and enticing Israel [to idolatry].’

The least difficult explanation is that the earliest core of the censored tradition of Jesus’ trial came from the time of Jesus. Succeeding generations felt they could not change it, despite difficulties presented by the wording. Instead, later editors added explanatory phrases during the latter half of the Second Century to help readers understand the correct meaning of this tradition, as they saw it.

http://legacy.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Tyndale/staff/Instone-Brewer/prepub/07_Instone_Brewer.pdf

tosca1 · Nov 13, 2019

JustHanging said:
There are becoming an increasing number of scholars who, based on the evidence, are coming to the conclusion that the Jesus person never existed, let alone a god name Jesus.

Cite, please. Provide something to support your claim.

Paul is an ex-theist who knows his bible inside out, and has done a lot of research.

I've never heard of this guy until you brought him up. I googled about him.

He claims he's a former Christian. That's HIS claim.

I am a former Christian who takes a look at the claims of Christians. It is my mission to help those "still in the maze" of indoctrinated belief, those recently escaped and those who enjoy the exploration.

Please be aware that I make each video a charged post. If you only want to donate per month instead of per video, please set your monthly max.

If you would prefer to make a one-time contribution, you can do so through Paypal at PayPal.me: profile

A huge thank you to everyone who is willing and able to be a patron, and equally so to everyone who watches, comments, forwards, supports and enjoys.

Paulogia is creating videos examining the claims of Christians. | Patreon

Lol. Somehow....I think he's another Richard Dawkins who's trying to cash in by selling reassurances to desperate atheists
who want to be reassured that there is no God. :mrgreen: I say, to each his own. :shrug:

But going back to you citing him like as if he's the answer to someone like William lane Craig - lol, how can you even think that?

I think, his real target market are atheists - his venture is more for atheists than to actually challenge or debate theists.
So, I question if he's even a real ex-theist. I mean, a serious ex-theist who was really into his religion.

Of course Paulogia is the more mature debater, with WLC sometimes launching into personal attacks as his "argument," instead of actually addressing the points Paulogia raised.

Quite the contrary, I don't think Paulogia had demonstrated his maturity when he's admitted that dinosaurs and young earth had eroded his alleged Christian faith. Really?

I also highly question his intellect because of that.

If he's really understood Genesis 1, he'd clearly see that there's nowhere God said the universe was made in so many thousands, or millions, or billions of years.
The Bible had simply stated, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." And, then it went on to describe what other things He did with earth.

Obviously, He made the Heavens first, since it's the first to be mentioned.
When was that beginning? When did it happen? Science had cited the Big Bang - but, they don't know what was there BEFORE the Big Bang!
Don't take my word for it: here's NASA:

What happened before the Big Bang? What happened right at the moment of the Big Bang?

We don't know. To even address these questions we need to have a quantum theory of gravity. We have a quantum theory, and we have a gravity theory, but these two theories somehow need to be combined. We know that our current gravity theory does not apply to the conditions of the earliest moments of the Big Bang. This is exciting research now in progress!

WMAP Site FAQs

So - Paulogia missed that from the Bible, and obviously had failed to do some science research, too!
Quite frankly my dear - there's no science discovery that negates the Bible!

To question Paulogia, and to challenge his claims, and his own credibility, is not a personal attack.... if we have a legitimate reason to question them!
And we do!

tosca1 · Nov 13, 2019

JustHanging said:
Paul is an ex-theist who knows his bible inside out, and has done a lot of research. Here he is debunking the common argument that disciples gave their lives rather than recant that Jesus rose from the grave. William Lane Craig has responded to his videos with counter videos of his own.

Here's the WLC podcast:

Timer: 7:00

This isn't a personal attack!

It's a LOGICAL straight forward critique - which begins with the reason which he claimed rocked his faith to the core that he ends up an atheist!

I, myself, was so surprised by Paulogia's reason for losing his faith!
What well-read MATURE , never mind intellectual, wouldn't go beyond dinosaurs? :mrgreen:

tosca1 · Nov 13, 2019

Here's part of the straight response of WLC on independent sources touched on that video (which I find annoying to listen to because of all the interruptions).

Historians think they’ve hit historical paydirt when they have two independent sources for some event. If all we had for the empty tomb were just the pre-Markan Passion story and the pre-Pauline formula, that would be enough to convince most scholars of the historicity of Jesus’ burial and empty tomb. But, in fact, we have at least six sources, some of which are among the earliest material in the New Testament. No wonder most scholars are convinced!

Now, of course, even here I am summarizing. Much more can be (and has been) said. There’s no substitute for digging deeper and reading some good books on Jesus’ resurrection. But I trust that this is enough to move the debate beyond simple misunderstanding to a new level.

The Empty Tomb | Reasonable Faith

Logicman · Nov 13, 2019

JustHanging said:
There are becoming an increasing number of scholars who, based on the evidence, are coming to the conclusion that the Jesus person never existed...

Where's your evidence for that flatulence?

Daisy · Nov 13, 2019

Logicman said:
Where's your evidence for that flatulence?

:giggle1:

JustHanging · Nov 13, 2019

tosca1 said:
Can you please provide the link to WLC's responses - just so we know what these alleged "personal attacks" are.

They're in the video, you can just watch it.

Btw, never heard of Paulogia - so thanks to you for these videos.

You're welcome. He's really good, very calm and even handed.

JustHanging · Nov 14, 2019

tosca1 said:
Cite, please. Provide something to support your claim.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...xist-the-traditional-evidence-doesnt-hold-up/

When it comes down to it, the gospels are written decades after the events they are supposed to describe, the authors are anonymous, and there are major contradictions.

I've never heard of this guy until you brought him up. I googled about him.

He claims he's a former Christian. That's HIS claim.

I am a former Christian who takes a look at the claims of Christians. It is my mission to help those "still in the maze" of indoctrinated belief, those recently escaped and those who enjoy the exploration.

Click to expand...

He talks about his life before and after in detail. He worked for George Lucas on Star Wars. If he was making it all up, I believe he would have been exposed long ago. In the end, that isn't relevant. His arguments stand or fall on their own merit.

Lol. Somehow....I think he's another Richard Dawkins who's trying to cash in by selling reassurances to desperate atheists
who want to be reassured that there is no God. :mrgreen: I say, to each his own. :shrug:

Click to expand...

Wow, that's some projection you got going on there. Why would atheists be "desperate"? We have no god to offend. We don't need to be reassured that there is no God,

Atheists are as "desperate" for proof that god doesn't exist as you are desperate for reassurance that Leprechauns don't exist.

But going back to you citing him like as if he's the answer to someone like William lane Craig - lol, how can you even think that?

Click to expand...

He debunked what WLC said in his video. Arguments stand or fall on their own merit, not on the letters after someone's name, or how popular they are.

I think, his real target market are atheists - his venture is more for atheists than to actually challenge or debate theists.
So, I question if he's even a real ex-theist. I mean, a serious ex-theist who was really into his religion.

Click to expand...

Again, none of that matters. He debunked WLC's video. Arguments stand on their own merit.

Quite the contrary, I don't think Paulogia had demonstrated his maturity when he's admitted that dinosaurs and young earth had eroded his alleged Christian faith. Really?

Click to expand...

He already has you resorting to Ad hominem attacks eh. Obviously he struck a nerve. Arguments stand on their own merit, your attempts at personal attacks fail.

I also highly question his intellect because of that.

Click to expand...

Yet you believe in a magical invisible being who you think is all powerful and all knowing, yet the book he breathed into existence is full of contradictions, and nobody can understand what it means, as witnessed by the thousands of different sects of Christianity, each with a different interpretation.

Maybe you should look in the mirror?

RAMOSS · Nov 14, 2019

Lovebug said:
The time people spend obsessing about something they think doesn't exist.

When there is a whole industry dedicated to shoving Jesus down the throats of Jews, and you have a group of Christians who adopt Jewish holidays, and traditions to say 'See, you can be Christian and Jewish too', why , you are going to people who counter than propogranda.

JustHanging · Nov 14, 2019

tosca1 said:
Here's part of the straight response of WLC on independent sources touched on that video
Historians think they’ve hit historical paydirt when they have two independent sources for some event. If all we had for the empty tomb were just the pre-Markan Passion story and the pre-Pauline formula, that would be enough to convince most scholars of the historicity of Jesus’ burial and empty tomb. But, in fact, we have at least six sources, some of which are among the earliest material in the New Testament. No wonder most scholars are convinced!

Yeah, I believe that's what Paulogia debunked. There is a claim that there are six independent sources. What are these six independent sources?

JustHanging · Nov 14, 2019

tosca1 said:
Historians think they’ve hit historical paydirt when they have two independent sources for some event.

So if there are two independent sources for any event, you believe it occurred, is that correct?

So if I find two independent sources that saw Rah, you would agree Rah is real. If I find two independent sources that an Alien abduction occurred, you will agree that alien abductions are real. If I find two independent sources that saw a First Nations god, you would agree that this makes First Nation's gods real?

According to your quote, if I can find two independent sources for any super natural event ever happening, you will believe that even truly happened. Is that correct?

tosca1 · Nov 14, 2019

deleted. irrelevant.

tosca1 · Nov 14, 2019

JustHanging said:
They're in the video, you can just watch it.

Which part? What timer?

You're welcome. He's really good, very calm and even handed.

Being calm has nothing to do with truth or accuracy . One can calmly spout off bs, while another could be passionate with his message.
It is what they are saying about it - that's what matters.

tosca1 · Nov 14, 2019

JustHanging said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...xist-the-traditional-evidence-doesnt-hold-up/

Just because it's in the Washington Post means...….. nada!
Do you know who wrote that article? Here:

By
Raphael Lataster
Raphael Lataster is a lecturer in religious studies at the University of Sydney.
He is author of There Was No Jesus, There Is No God.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...xist-the-traditional-evidence-doesnt-hold-up/

What do you expect the ATHEIST author to say? :lol:

Speaking of his book, it got a feedback from this guy:

Raphael Lataster’s book - There Was No Jesus, There Is No God

Having considered the latest, of a never ending, round of pop-research on the issue of the historical Jesus and Jesus mythicism, namely Michael Paulkovich and Raphael Lataster, I posted the following statement on Facebook:

I found Paulkovich's claims fascinating as a few years ago I personally conducted research on documents written 70 AD to 200-250 AD and chronicled 205 texts that reference Jesus.
The number refers to the texts themselves and not to the number of times that Jesus is referenced in each text.
Counting each reference would take us well beyond the 205 total.
Furthermore, the number refers to the texts and not to each manuscript behind each text.
Counting each manuscript would also take us well beyond the 205 total.

My evidence is here: Historical Jesus – two centuries worth of citations

Page not found | True Freethinker

Historical Jesus - Two Centuries Worth of Citations

The question as to how many early ancient texts there are which refer to Jesus is often proposed.

Historical Jesus - Two Centuries Worth of Citations | True Freethinker

tosca1 · Nov 14, 2019

JustHanging said:
So if there are two independent sources for any event, you believe it occurred, is that correct?

So if I find two independent sources that saw Rah, you would agree Rah is real. If I find two independent sources that an Alien abduction occurred, you will agree that alien abductions are real. If I find two independent sources that saw a First Nations god, you would agree that this makes First Nation's gods real?

According to your quote, if I can find two independent sources for any super natural event ever happening, you will believe that even truly happened. Is that correct?

Here's an analogy:

If two independent witnesses had claimed to have actually seen you shooting a woman, from two varying angles
(and yet, providing corroborating account of the event) - and you've got nothing to reasonably prove that they're mistaken -

what do you think will happen?

Wouldn't cops and homicide investigators take the allegations seriously?
Wouldn't you be picked up for questioning?
Wouldn't you get charged?
Wouldn't the murder case go into trial?

Lol. Some people get convicted for circumstantial evidence - what more when you've got outright independent witnesses to the crime?

But.....we aren't talking of only two sources, are we?

tosca1 · Nov 14, 2019

JustHanging said:
He talks about his life before and after in detail. He worked for George Lucas on Star Wars. If he was making it all up, I believe he would have been exposed long ago.

There is reason to question some of his descriptions about himself - like his research, as an example.
As I've said, how can a supposedly well-educated, and well-read man get his faith demolished by dinosaurs and young earth belief?
It doesn't make sense. Unless, he's made up or embellished being "well-read" and highly educated, and of knowing the Bible "inside out."

As I've said, a person doing a serious research would easily see that Genesis 1, is quite loaded...…....and that there are many scientists
who can easily interpret Genesis 1 to be compatible with scientific facts!

Having missed that - he's done a sloppy research, to say the least!

Arguments stand or fall on their ~~own merit, not on the letters after someone's name, or how popular they are.~~

Credibility.

There was No Empty TombꟷThe Gospel’s Resurrection Accounts Never Occurred

Guno

JustHanging

tosca1

Lovebug

Be humble and kind

tosca1

tosca1

tosca1

tosca1

tosca1

tosca1

tosca1

tosca1

tosca1

Logicman

Daisy

"Make sure of the more important things."

JustHanging

JustHanging

RAMOSS

JustHanging

JustHanging

tosca1

tosca1

tosca1

tosca1

tosca1