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Atheist / Theist Reconciliation Thread

I see. I agree with you, free speech. If a student wants to bore the pants off an audience by banging on about a god then they should be allowed to do that.

Precisely. I don't agree with such speeches, but they cannot be denied their right to say whatever they please. People often forget that the First Amendment protects the speech with which we disagree. If we always agreed with what was said then there wouldn't be a need for a First Amendment to protect free speech.
 
I've heard multiple people talking about revoking tax-exempt status from churches.

There are many secular organizations that are also tax exempt, so I have no problem with treating a church like a non-profit tax-exempt 501(c) organization. However, sales and property taxes are another issue entirely. Everyone pays those, even the non-profit organizations, and so should churches. So it really depends on the type of tax.
 
I've heard multiple people talking about revoking tax-exempt status from churches.

I don't look at that as one "going the other way," but rather an effort to undo an example of what I was talking about - religion being entitled to special treatment in the public square.

Got another one?
 
A Pee Wee Herman fan, were you?



Angel: I try to remain civil with everyone…… My pique is aroused by the rude bullying posts, and to them I chiefly rely on irony in reply….... I just don't like bullies, particularly close-minded unthinking bullies. #78 Angel


OlNate: Ok, so, let's consider "the bullies" then. ……. Would it be a reconciliatory exercise to perhaps first ask what is behind their "bullying"? Can we make room to address the hurt our religion has caused? #80 OlNate

Angel: As a rule I give and demand respect in these anonymous conversations …… I just dismiss the rude interlocutor with a "Peace out" or "Take a hike" and quit the conversation, …… You suggest that I might try to understand the rude bully,…. If I believed that there was really something to understand there, that it wasn't just bad manners and lack of character on the other's part, …. perhaps I would be more forgiving and tolerant. ….. to the rudeness and bullying. They're not even listening to me or trying to understand what I'm talking about. #107. Angel

Angel: When a so-called "soft atheist" misunderstands a point, ignores correction on that point, and then misrepresents the point and the exchange on that point, it is pretty clear that the "soft atheist" is in bad faith in the discussion. Is bad faith not reason to write someone off? If taking offense is a decision, so too is bad faith.#119 Angel

JustHanging: It appears you do not know what the Burden of Proof is or how it works. If you weren't able to provide your burden of proof for your claim, then your claim is without merit, and can be ignored. That's the way reasoned debate works. So it's not your opponent "misrepresenting" or "ignoring correction", it's you not living up to your burden of proof.#122 Just hanging

Angel: Still misrepresenting? Or still misunderstanding? Which is it? You were corrected as to the philosophical distinction between contingency and necessity. There is no burden of proof here. I provided two links to reputable philosophical sites so that you might understand the distinction. Any burden here was on you, to learn the difference.125 Angel


JustHanging: Why not take it back to your "Proof of God" thread, and lay out your arguments for necessity and contingent in a coherent fashion, with support for any claims you make? In other words, meet your burden of proof. But let's end this off topic debate on Nate's thread, agreed? 126 Just hanging

Angel: There's no burden of proof involved in the question of a basic philosophical distinction, something every beginner learns in Philosophy 101. There's only informing the one who lacks such knowledge of the meaning of the distinction. Moreover, you are here conflating the question of the logical form of the proof (my responsibility) with your ignorance of a philosophical distinction (your responsibility).#167

Angel: Is bad faith not reason to write someone off? #119 Angel

DeathPendant: Of course it is. That's why I write you off. #127DarthPendant

Angel: A Pee Wee Herman fan, were you?#165 Angel

Angel: I try to remain civil with everyone ......... I just don't like bullies, particularly close-minded unthinking bullies. #78
 
I guess I am somewhat of a Theist but of the Atheist variety. :)

Seriously, I don't rule out the possibility of there existing some sort of godlike thing, although what that thing could be becomes harder and harder to justify with each passing day of scientific discovery. Nonetheless, it's certainly within the realm of possibilities that some kind of mysterious thing out there---somewhere?---does mysterious things which we have not yet identified nor likely can. But, the bulk of my being has to read through all that and say, "Bull****."

Let's just keep it simple, and cut out the hocus pocus. The universe is fascinating enough without the need to introduce magic or guiding hands no one can explain.

And, no. I am certainly laughing at the goofy stories in the books man calls words of god. GMAFB. Even a child can read through those and see they are made up.
 
So an agnostic person has knowledge of God?

Probably more accurate to say agnostics have knowledge of 'God claims', CLAX. At least, as an agnostic-atheist myself, that is my take on it. btw, Happy Holiday Season to you and yours.
 
No candor is dealing with a truth where as you are simply demanding that others accept your lie. Thank you for the clear demonstration of why there is such discord between atheists and theists.
Thank you for the clear demonstration of refusing to deal with facts.
 
Religion is not a fact based prospect. It's make believe bull****. And, no one has to accept the delusions the so-called righteous present as fact. It's just myth and fairy tales, plain and simple.
Thank you for your opinion.
 
That (second bolded above) is simply quibbling over the (slight?) semantic difference between "believing" and "knowing". What you know (believe) is that supernatural forces (beings) do not exist, even if they can be discribed in great detail (defined), because your belief (knowlege base) will not accept them as possibly existing.

Nope.

We don't believe a god exists because we haven't seen sufficient evidence. A good analogy is how court works. The accused isn't found innocent, they are found "Not guilty".

Most atheists, virtually all the atheists I know, believe god is "Not Guilty" of existing. That is very much different than believing God doesn't exist.
 
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I don't look at that as one "going the other way," but rather an effort to undo an example of what I was talking about - religion being entitled to special treatment in the public square.

Got another one?

See what I mean? It's not your beliefs being worked into every crevice when it's you doing it.

It isn't special treatment churches don't exist to be a profitable company. They would be like any other charity.
 
Probably more accurate to say agnostics have knowledge of 'God claims', CLAX. At least, as an agnostic-atheist myself, that is my take on it. btw, Happy Holiday Season to you and yours.

I just don't understand the argument that agnostics are not atheist.
 
There are many secular organizations that are also tax exempt, so I have no problem with treating a church like a non-profit tax-exempt 501(c) organization. However, sales and property taxes are another issue entirely. Everyone pays those, even the non-profit organizations, and so should churches. So it really depends on the type of tax.

Churches are exempt from property taxes but are there charities are not? I would love to see some evidence to support that doesn't sound right.
 
See what I mean? It's not your beliefs being worked into every crevice when it's you doing it.

It isn't special treatment churches don't exist to be a profitable company. They would be like any other charity.

Sorry, once again? Please provide one example of "my beliefs" being worked into every crevice of public life.

Churches are not treated like other non-profits. If they were, I doubt anyone would be pushing to change the status quo.
 
Sorry, once again? Please provide one example of "my beliefs" being worked into every crevice of public life.
Churches aren't businesses they are not profits. It's not a special right to allow them the same exemption as any other non profit or charity.

By you suggesting that it's special rights that's based on your beliefs.
Churches are not treated like other non-profits. If they were, I doubt anyone would be pushing to change the status quo.

How are they treated differently?
 
I just don't understand the argument that agnostics are not atheist.

it can be confusing for sure. I think different non-believers have different views/opinions on defining/discussing the differences in the two concepts. The most often ones I see are some people declaring agnosticism involves a 'level of knowledge', and atheism is a rejection of any/all God claims, due to lack of emperical proof any God(s) exist.
 
Churches aren't businesses they are not profits. It's not a special right to allow them the same exemption as any other non profit or charity.

By you suggesting that it's special rights that's based on your beliefs.


How are they treated differently?
Look up 'parsonage' exceptions to pick just one of many differences. Allows churches to funnel millions tax free into real estate and development for the pastor's mcmansion.

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