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Thread: Atheist / Theist Reconciliation Thread

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    Re: Atheist / Theist Reconciliation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OlNate View Post
    So, another proponent of the live and let live variety. I agree with you. As a Christian, I believe 100% in the separation of church and state. The Bible clearly demands this, in no uncertain terms. The way that politicians have dragged my faith through the mud, only to secure power, makes me sick.

    Would you be there for me, if my ability to practice my religion was threatened?
    Yes, I don't care if you're a Christian, Muslim, or a Pastafarians or anything else, you have to right to believe in whatever you want as long as you don't try and force that on me.

    Of course I sure my views on the tax exempt status of religions would probably not please you, as I feel every organization should pay taxes.

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    Re: Atheist / Theist Reconciliation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
    If atheism is a lack of theism and you have never been told there is theism then what are you an atheist about? You cannot be saying an atheist is completely ignorant of the existence of theism. They go hand in hand we cannot have one without the other. Atheism is nothing more than a response to theism.
    Complete and total nonsense. Atheism is the lack of theism. Just as someone who is amoral lacks morals. You are not automatically given morals magically and then reject them to become amoral. If you have no morals at all, then you are amoral. Just as if you have no religious belief whatsoever, you are atheist.

    Quote Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
    No, we are all naturally born without knowledge of a god. That is ignosticism. To be an atheist requires some knowledge of a god in order to say you lack any belief in it.
    Total BS. Who gave this knowledge of a divine being to a new born? Religion requires someone to teach it. It does not just magically appear upon birth. Whereas nobody is required to teach atheism, because everyone is a natural born atheist until they are taught theism.

    Quote Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
    Even as an atheist i have faith in some things that i take for granted will happen. Faith is not the exclusive property of theists that is just christians being there usual thieving selves by claiming it is a god thing.
    You clearly don't know the meaning of atheist. No atheist has faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
    And anti theism is something that is quite useful at times especially when some fool christian demand that their morality be made into law.
    Anti-theists are all about hatred, and nothing else. That is never useful.

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    Re: Atheist / Theist Reconciliation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    I've heard that before but that's not the definition of atheist. That is however the definition of an apatheist.


    No. Atheist do care about the existence/nonexistence of a supernatural being as a subject of attention or debate. An apatheist simply doesn't care about the subject/debate. "An apatheist is someone who is not interested in accepting or rejecting any claims that gods exist or do not exist. The existence of god(s) is not rejected, but may be designated irrelevant."

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    Re: Atheist / Theist Reconciliation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OlNate View Post
    You're right, I took a binary approach, my bad. I always tend to think of agnostics as the chill uncle, enjoying a spliff while the rest of the family fights at Thanksgiving...hehe...

    Please, if you would like to give the agnostic point of view, I'd welcome it.


    I haven't much idea what the agnostic view would be, other than definitional (still subject to varying agnostic opinion). I could only give my own opinion to your point, which I believe applies to just about everything, not just religion, and except my family. But you got me right on chill unks, at least since I left atheism behind.

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    Re: Atheist / Theist Reconciliation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesmoke View Post
    No. Atheist do care about the existence/nonexistence of a supernatural being as a subject of attention or debate. An apatheist simply doesn't care about the subject/debate. "An apatheist is someone who is not interested in accepting or rejecting any claims that gods exist or do not exist. The existence of god(s) is not rejected, but may be designated irrelevant."
    Someone who doesn't accept or reject a God doesn't believe in one thus atheist.

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    Re: Atheist / Theist Reconciliation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvira View Post
    Jehovah, in full justice, could have put an end to all sinful mankind long ago...this alone exalts all the more the greatness of his mercy and undeserved kindness in saving some of mankind for life...John 3:36...He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked...Ezekiel 18:23, 32; 33:11...He will not/cannot allow the wicked to escape the execution of his justice/judgment...Amos 9:2-4; Romans 2:2-9...
    that's a cause of conflict between us right their its not objective justice ( nothing could be ) to not murdering everyone you don't approve of because they wont do everything you want

    not murdering you because you try to serve me as best you can is not an action of mercy or kindness

    ther is no objective justice especially in murdering people who don't threaten you

    sin is not objectively bad if its is only what bothers someone else

    if you feel your god has the right to kill you have fun with that but you seem like the most vile and evil of skum to me if your ok with having me killd to please yourself

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    Re: Atheist / Theist Reconciliation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OlNate View Post
    Thanks, Blarg.

    So, given that point number 1 is kind of the pillar (to a point, that we could discuss in another thread - briefly, though, I say there's plenty of room to debate interpretations of the Bible) of following a religion, I have to ask for clarification. What, a little more specifically, is the change you'd like to see here...if you don't mind.

    As for points 2 - 4, as a Christian I couldn't agree more. Do you think that the fact that there are many Christians that would agree with you indicates that this is a Christian problem, or a people problem? Are there any other groups that you would present those same points to?
    not sure its pillar of religion though it is populer, you could follow a religion or god because you feel its ways are what you like best without belvings its right for anyone or everyone just because it is .

    2 includes not supporting the gods themselves christianity seems to be founded on the idea that people deserve to suffer endlessly or die for humanity not obeying its god absolutely and people only avoid that because the god hurt itself/its son in are place.


    i said theists and i mean theists many christians would have to change to follow these demands as best they could ( 4 is tricky for everyone ) thought this would come as a surprise to many of them

    these are common ( 2 may be universal you would need to heavily modify what a christ is to find a way around that it would have to be someone who saved you time with advice you found helpful instead of some one who ways you must follow to be ok ) problems i have with christians

    this applies to muslims jews, hindu and any one else with demanding judging gods and or any one else who makes demands/judgments in the name of gods

    ther is no reason to single out christianity

    so 1-3 are problems i have with theists may have a very similar problem to 1 and 2 with some atheists

    4 seems like a universal problem

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    Re: Atheist / Theist Reconciliation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
    Complete and total nonsense. Atheism is the lack of theism. Just as someone who is amoral lacks morals. You are not automatically given morals magically and then reject them to become amoral. If you have no morals at all, then you are amoral. Just as if you have no religious belief whatsoever, you are atheist.



    Total BS. Who gave this knowledge of a divine being to a new born? Religion requires someone to teach it. It does not just magically appear upon birth. Whereas nobody is required to teach atheism, because everyone is a natural born atheist until they are taught theism.

    You clearly don't know the meaning of atheist. No atheist has faith.

    Anti-theists are all about hatred, and nothing else. That is never useful.
    Re: the bolded - yes. They are the other side of the Westboro coin.
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    Re: Atheist / Theist Reconciliation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rwee2000 View Post
    Yes, I don't care if you're a Christian, Muslim, or a Pastafarians or anything else, you have to right to believe in whatever you want as long as you don't try and force that on me.

    Of course I sure my views on the tax exempt status of religions would probably not please you, as I feel every organization should pay taxes.
    Meh...you'd be surprised. I think that if churches make a profit, they should absolutely pay taxes. That's not the purpose of the Church. I would support a tax structure for churches, so long as only profit is taxed. And, so long as existing churches are given some kind of grandfather clause, I'd support new churches paying property tax as well. The grandfather clause would be to protect against this being a death blow to little old churches that you're probably not thinking about when advocating for this anyway. Basically, it's not a non starter for me. The Church needs to be a good citizen, just like any other organization. We all need to keep an open mind on how to do this fairly. A lot of "tax the churches" folks I see seem to have punitive motivations, which isn't the fair solution either.

    Also, Pastafarians have the best parties. Though Irish Catholics are a close second.
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    Re: Atheist / Theist Reconciliation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    not sure its pillar of religion though it is populer, you could follow a religion or god because you feel its ways are what you like best without belvings its right for anyone or everyone just because it is .

    2 includes not supporting the gods themselves christianity seems to be founded on the idea that people deserve to suffer endlessly or die for humanity not obeying its god absolutely and people only avoid that because the god hurt itself/its son in are place.


    i said theists and i mean theists many christians would have to change to follow these demands as best they could ( 4 is tricky for everyone ) thought this would come as a surprise to many of them

    these are common ( 2 may be universal you would need to heavily modify what a christ is to find a way around that it would have to be someone who saved you time with advice you found helpful instead of some one who ways you must follow to be ok ) problems i have with christians

    this applies to muslims jews, hindu and any one else with demanding judging gods and or any one else who makes demands/judgments in the name of gods

    ther is no reason to single out christianity

    so 1-3 are problems i have with theists may have a very similar problem to 1 and 2 with some atheists

    4 seems like a universal problem
    Mmmm...obedience is a pretty central theme, I'm afraid...hehe... For me it's one of the more challenging aspects of faith, to be honest. But I think I get what you're saying, and if I'm reading you right, I agree - it's always supposed to be a personal decision, a personal faith, and a personal obedience - with the exception of teaching your faith to your family...the whole "while you're under my roof" thing. But even there I think it's important to be careful. We all want to pass on the things that are important to us down to our kids. But I think you need to be open to the fact that they may not want them, as sad as that might be for you. I had a buddy, who's dad was the third generation of plumber - the business had been handed down father to son. He wanted his own son to take over the business, but there was no interest. They still don't talk, and this was years ago. I don't want that to happen with my son and I around religion, so while I tell him what I believe, I expose him to it through taking him to Church, if he ever comes to me and says "Dad, this isn't for me", well, it will make me sad, but I'll accept it and love him anyway. It will be a personal disappointment, not anything I would saddle him with.

    As for the rest of your response, I think I might have been misunderstood. What I meant was, do you see your concerns in other, non-religious groups? If you replaced the theist language with more secular words - ideology or system instead of faith, for example - would the same behavior present in other demographics, as you have highlighted in theist ones? The purpose of the question is to determine whether these problematic behaviors are unique to theist organizations. If so, then we have a problem with religion. If not, then the root cause is TBD. This is not an attempt to excuse these behaviors. It is simply an attempt to figure out if these things stand in the way of this reconciliation specifically, or part of a bigger problem, that perhaps many of us are guilty of, irrespective of our religious status.
    Life's too short...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mashmont View Post
    Winning comes so easily, I barely have to think about it. I've been called the Donald Trump of forum for good reason.

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