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To whom it may concern.....

JustHanging said:
Obfuscation!

I said "Unsurprisingly all I've ever received was deflection, obfuscation, insults, name-calling, running away. .". So far you've refused to answer, and used deflection, insults, name-calling, and now obfuscation.


Come on Elivira, I just need one more for you to fill in my Apologist's Bingo Card: "Running Away".
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Since you're so crazy about the OT...here's one for you...

“How long will you inexperienced ones love inexperience?
How long will you ridiculers take pleasure in ridicule?
And how long will you foolish ones hate knowledge?" Proverbs 1:22
 
rwee2000 said:
Just because Jesus took PITY on someone doesn't mean the laws of the Old Testament are not still in force.

It's really funny how "Christians" will deny the TRUTH of the bible, either you followed it or you don't. Picking and choosing what parts you wish to follow means your AREN'T following the bible. So if you aren't following the bible are you really a "Christian"?
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Jesus fulfilled the law on our behalf, because no MERE HUMAN can. As far as the "Law":

The law has four main purposes:

1. It shows us the moral character of God
2. It serves as a tutor to lead us to Christ, by defining what sin is.
3. It is a guide for Christian living.
4. Knowing the law can keep us from suffering the adverse consequences of sin.

But no one is saved by the law. We are justified righteous by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

In Galatians 3:10-11, Paul addresses the Law:

“All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is
written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do every-
thing written in the Book of the Law.’ Clearly, no one is justified
before God by the law, because, ‘The righteous will live by
faith.”

So nice try.
 
Logicman said:
Scripture? If you're talking about Luke 19:27 then your 'Hermeneutics' needs a lot of work.

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Oh there are several. And you do not get to interpret the bible for all Christians
 
JustHanging said:
I've asked Elvira, Logicman, Angel, and other apologists on this forum for the methodology they use to decide which parts of the bible Jesus wants them to follow, and which parts of the bible it's OK to ignore.

Unsurprisingly all I've ever received was deflection, obfuscation, insults, name-calling, running away. .
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By ignoring parts the bible are they then not rejecting it and thus rejecting Jesus? Which of course means they are not Christians.
 
Logicman said:
Jesus fulfilled the law on our behalf, because no MERE HUMAN can. As far as the "Law":

The law has four main purposes:

1. It shows us the moral character of God
2. It serves as a tutor to lead us to Christ, by defining what sin is.
3. It is a guide for Christian living.
4. Knowing the law can keep us from suffering the adverse consequences of sin.

But no one is saved by the law. We are justified righteous by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

In Galatians 3:10-11, Paul addresses the Law:

“All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is
written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do every-
thing written in the Book of the Law.’ Clearly, no one is justified
before God by the law, because, ‘The righteous will live by
faith.”

So nice try.
Click to expand...

"Thou shalt not murder"

So murder is a sin right?

But, God has no problem with murder, provided you murder the "right" people.

You should not let a sorceress live. Exodus 22:17 NAB

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. Leviticus 20:27 NAB

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. Exodus 21:15 NAB

"A guide to Christian living"

So, assuming you believe in the bible, you should be fine with slavery, selling people, including children. Even if you don't own slaves or sell them according to the bible you as a christian should be fine with allowing it.

So are you?
 
nota bene said:
Were there Christians before the NT was written?
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No, Jesus and his followers were Jews.

You know the NT was assembled by a committee don't you? And the committee left many books out of the NT.
 
rwee2000 said:
By ignoring parts the bible are they then not rejecting it and thus rejecting Jesus? Which of course means they are not Christians.
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Baloney...no one is ignoring parts of the Bible nor are they rejecting Jesus...they merely understand which ones pertain directly to Christians and which ones pertained directly to the nation of Israel...
 
rwee2000 said:
"Thou shalt not murder"

So murder is a sin right?

But, God has no problem with murder, provided you murder the "right" people.

You should not let a sorceress live. Exodus 22:17 NAB

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. Leviticus 20:27 NAB

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. Exodus 21:15 NAB

"A guide to Christian living"

So, assuming you believe in the bible, you should be fine with slavery, selling people, including children. Even if you don't own slaves or sell them according to the bible you as a christian should be fine with allowing it.

So are you?
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You're third grade theology isn't fit for the bottom of a bird cage.

It's also apparent that you don't understand the difference between humans murdering each other and God's divine justice on evil men and nation.
 
rwee2000 said:
No, Jesus and his followers were Jews.

You know the NT was assembled by a committee don't you? And the committee left many books out of the NT.
Click to expand...

Committees had nothing to do with it...the books were well established long before any stupid committee...

while there was plenty of discussion in the Early Church over the New Testament canon, the "major" writings were accepted by almost all Christian authorities by the middle of the second century.
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Development of the Christian biblical canon - Wikipedia
 
Elvira said:
Baloney...no one is ignoring parts of the Bible nor are they rejecting Jesus...they merely understand which ones pertain directly to Christians and which ones pertained directly to the nation of Israel...
Click to expand...

So when Jesus said he wasn't there to replace the laws

“Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets; I came not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished” (Mt. 5:17-18)

He was lying.

Remember the prophesy is NOT be fulfilled until the second coming.
 
Logicman said:
You're third grade theology isn't fit for the bottom of a bird cage.

It's also apparent that you don't understand the difference between humans murdering each other and God's divine justice on evil men and nation.
Click to expand...

So a follower of god who "All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense." Leviticus 20:9

Is considered evil under your religion?
 
rwee2000 said:
So when Jesus said he wasn't there to replace the laws

“Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets; I came not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished” (Mt. 5:17-18)

He was lying.

Remember the prophesy is NOT be fulfilled until the second coming.
Click to expand...

I already explained to you what fulfill means, if you don't comprehend, that's your problem...
 
Elvira said:
Committees had nothing to do with it...the books were well established long before any stupid committee...



Development of the Christian biblical canon - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

So, let's use your source shall we?

The BOOKS of the bible were generally established before they were assembled by the committee, but funny how they left out

The Protevangelion
The Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ
The Infancy Gospel of Thomas
The Epistles of Jesus Christ and Abgarus King of Edessa
The Gospel of Nicodemus (Acts of Pilate)
The Apostles' Creed (throughout history)
The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Laodiceans
The Epistles of Paul the Apostle to Seneca, with Seneca's to Paul
The Acts of Paul and Thecla
The Epistles of Clement (The First and Second Epistles of Clement to the Corinthians)
The Epistle of Barnabas
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrneans
The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp
The Shepherd of Hermas (Visions, Commands, and Similitudes)
Letter of Herod To Pilate the Governor
Letter of Pilate to Herod
The Lost Gospel of Peter
The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians

Those were rejected as apocryphal by the Catholic Church's synods of Carthage and Rome, which established the New Testament canon. IE a committee decided what was and wasn't allowed into the bible. So a COMMITTEE decided what you were going to read.
 
Elvira said:
I already explained to you what fulfill means, if you don't comprehend, that's your problem...
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So tell me does Jesus currently rule the earth? Or are we still waiting? If we are still waiting how could the prophesies be fulfilled?
 
rwee2000 said:
So, let's use your source shall we?

The BOOKS of the bible were generally established before they were assembled by the committee, but funny how they left out

The Protevangelion
The Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ
The Infancy Gospel of Thomas
The Epistles of Jesus Christ and Abgarus King of Edessa
The Gospel of Nicodemus (Acts of Pilate)
The Apostles' Creed (throughout history)
The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Laodiceans
The Epistles of Paul the Apostle to Seneca, with Seneca's to Paul
The Acts of Paul and Thecla
The Epistles of Clement (The First and Second Epistles of Clement to the Corinthians)
The Epistle of Barnabas
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrneans
The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp
The Shepherd of Hermas (Visions, Commands, and Similitudes)
Letter of Herod To Pilate the Governor
Letter of Pilate to Herod
The Lost Gospel of Peter
The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians

Those were rejected as apocryphal by the Catholic Church's synods of Carthage and Rome, which established the New Testament canon. IE a committee decided what was and wasn't allowed into the bible. So a COMMITTEE decided what you were going to read.
Click to expand...

Wrong...the Apocryphal writings were never included in the Jewish canon of inspired Scriptures and do not form part of it today...just as the earlier Apocryphal writings were excluded from among the accepted pre-Christian Hebrew Scriptures, so also these later Apocryphal writings were not accepted as inspired nor included as canonical in the earliest collections or catalogs of the Christian Greek Scriptures..SMH...I don't go by the Catholic Bible, never did...
 
rwee2000 said:
So tell me does Jesus currently rule the earth? Or are we still waiting? If we are still waiting how could the prophesies be fulfilled?
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You do understand you're talking about 2 different covenants, right?:roll:
 
Elvira said:
Wrong...the Apocryphal writings were never included in the Jewish canon of inspired Scriptures and do not form part of it today...just as the earlier Apocryphal writings were excluded from among the accepted pre-Christian Hebrew Scriptures, so also these later Apocryphal writings were not accepted as inspired nor included as canonical in the earliest collections or catalogs of the Christian Greek Scriptures..SMH...I don't go by the Catholic Bible, never did...
Click to expand...

So some dudes decided to include some things but not bbn others
 
rwee2000 said:
So, let's use your source shall we?

The BOOKS of the bible were generally established before they were assembled by the committee, but funny how they left out

The Protevangelion
The Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ
The Infancy Gospel of Thomas
The Epistles of Jesus Christ and Abgarus King of Edessa
The Gospel of Nicodemus (Acts of Pilate)
The Apostles' Creed (throughout history)
The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Laodiceans
The Epistles of Paul the Apostle to Seneca, with Seneca's to Paul
The Acts of Paul and Thecla
The Epistles of Clement (The First and Second Epistles of Clement to the Corinthians)
The Epistle of Barnabas
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrneans
The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp
The Shepherd of Hermas (Visions, Commands, and Similitudes)
Letter of Herod To Pilate the Governor
Letter of Pilate to Herod
The Lost Gospel of Peter
The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians

Those were rejected as apocryphal by the Catholic Church's synods of Carthage and Rome, which established the New Testament canon. IE a committee decided what was and wasn't allowed into the bible. So a COMMITTEE decided what you were going to read.
Click to expand...

She has never heard of these works.
 
Elvira said:
Wrong...the Apocryphal writings were never included in the Jewish canon of inspired Scriptures and do not form part of it today...just as the earlier Apocryphal writings were excluded from among the accepted pre-Christian Hebrew Scriptures, so also these later Apocryphal writings were not accepted as inspired nor included as canonical in the earliest collections or catalogs of the Christian Greek Scriptures..SMH...I don't go by the Catholic Bible, never did...
Click to expand...

Do you realize that until the 1800s every Bible sold contained the apocrypha? Probably not...
 
rwee2000 said:
No, in fact, in the early christian religion you had to be Jewish first, then follow the teaching of Jesus. That's what made you a christian, a Jewish person who followed the teaching of Jesus.
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And you are trying to tell us what our Bible says?
 
rwee2000 said:
So a follower of god who "All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense." Leviticus 20:9

Is considered evil under your religion?
Click to expand...

I think what's appropriate is all the stiff-necked God and Christ mockers getting cast into the Lake of Fire when they belly up.
 
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