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Proof of God

“Order implies rationality” — a crystal is ordered, in a sense. Yet, no consciousness created that crystal. Also, what is ordered is subjective.
“The universe is ordered” — Subjective again.

Highly controversial premises that unless proved, don’t support your conclusion.
The order of things allows for crystal formation. Order is as objective as subjectivity can reckon -- otherwise things wouldn't work as they appear to work.
 
The order of things allows for crystal formation. Order is as objective as subjectivity can reckon -- otherwise things wouldn't work as they appear to work.

There is nothing in the formation for a crystal that implies rationality.
 
Here's a description of crystallization:
How Do Crystals Form & Grow? | Geology Page
Please explain your claim.

Sure. There is no thought or reason process that goes into the formation of a crystal. Believers often like to bring up the analogy of the watch and the watchmaker. For there to be a watch, there must have been a mind to put that watch together.

For the order created in a crystal, there is no mind. It is a completely natural and unguided process. Yet, it is order.
 
Sure. There is no thought or reason process that goes into the formation of a crystal. Believers often like to bring up the analogy of the watch and the watchmaker. For there to be a watch, there must have been a mind to put that watch together.

For the order created in a crystal, there is no mind. It is a completely natural and unguided process. Yet, it is order.
Rationality is an attribute of order. Period. If some process works in orderly fashion to an end within a larger ordering of things, it is rational.
 
Rationality is an attribute of order. Period. If some process works in orderly fashion to an end within a larger ordering of things, it is rational.

Again, “order” is a purely human construct. Is a field of corn rows “ordered”? Maybe...or maybe it’s ordered if it is the original prairie with all of the diverse live and ecosystems it supports.

In any event, let’s say that I agree with your conclusion, “The universe implies what humans perceive as order”.

And so?
 
Again, “order” is a purely human construct. Is a field of corn rows “ordered”? Maybe...or maybe it’s ordered if it is the original prairie with all of the diverse live and ecosystems it supports.

In any event, let’s say that I agree with your conclusion, “The universe implies what humans perceive as order”.

And so?
Everything discursive is a human construct. Your posts, your facts, your beliefs, your disbeliefs, science, art, philosophy, anthropology, psychology, mathematics, and so on. It is impossible to discourse and not construct. So where do we go from here?
 
Everything discursive is a human construct. Your posts, your facts, your beliefs, your disbeliefs, science, art, philosophy, anthropology, psychology, mathematics, and so on. It is impossible to discourse and not construct. So where do we go from here?

Now you’re being silly. You’re trying to claim a quality of the universe. What is “ordered” is a much more subjective quality than say, size, number of stars, age, etc. But, go ahead with your argument. I know where it’s going and it’s not going to work, but be my guest.
 
Now you’re being silly. You’re trying to claim a quality of the universe. What is “ordered” is a much more subjective quality than say, size, number of stars, age, etc. But, go ahead with your argument. I know where it’s going and it’s not going to work, but be my guest.

What is your quest?
 
No, just a silly question.
What's your irony meter doing? I mean, when it comes to silly questions, your question about Hindu gods, which you post over and over again, a thousand times in just the last two years during which I've had the distinct misfortune of reading your posts, takes the cake, yes?
 
Again, “order” is a purely human construct. Is a field of corn rows “ordered”? Maybe...or maybe it’s ordered if it is the original prairie with all of the diverse live and ecosystems it supports.

In any event, let’s say that I agree with your conclusion, “The universe implies what humans perceive as order”.

And so?

Everything discursive is a human construct. Your posts, your facts, your beliefs, your disbeliefs, science, art, philosophy, anthropology, psychology, mathematics, and so on. It is impossible to discourse and not construct. So where do we go from here?

Now you’re being silly. You’re trying to claim a quality of the universe. What is “ordered” is a much more subjective quality than say, size, number of stars, age, etc. But, go ahead with your argument. I know where it’s going and it’s not going to work, but be my guest.
That's the problem here: you know the argument before it's made and you know before it's made that it's not going to work. Please waste someone else's time, will you? Thank you.
 
That's the problem here: you know the argument before it's made and you know before it's made that it's not going to work. Please waste someone else's time, will you? Thank you.

Oh the irony
 
That's the problem here: you know the argument before it's made and you know before it's made that it's not going to work. Please waste someone else's time, will you? Thank you.

The real problem is that you don't understand the nature of a philosophical argument. Logically valid arguments can contain false premises. Reality does not bend to human created philosophical arguments. Rutabagas do not require a philosophical argument. Go find your rutabaga and be enlightened.
 
The quest will reveal that. Now, where is my trusty blade?

Serated or straight edge blade? After all the wrong blade with the wrong loaf could lead to disaster
 
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