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Proof of God

Questioning God’s existence is denial.

Authority always should prove themselves. Man came up with god so man can question the concept.
 
Authority always should prove themselves. Man came up with god so man can question the concept.

God would probably prefer that we question some clown saying that there is a god.
 
God would probably prefer that we question some clown saying that there is a god.

Yep. If a god exists, and he gave us a brain and created logic and reason, why would he punish us for using them? The inanity of religion, or the cruelty of the god.
 
Then could there have been a natural start process other than the big bang ?

Why not? I wasn't there so I can neither affirm or deny. :)

Or maybe I was and don't remember?
 

I called you a "she" in a couple of posts. It was completely unintended, and meant to carry no negative connotations. For whatever reason I've always imagined good angels as females, and when I saw your name....

My sincere apologies, and I will be most careful not to do that again. Thanks to Elvira for pointing it out. :)
 
Early Autumn, and a lifelong atheist decides to take a walk in the forest so he can enjoy the visage of the changing colors. Suddenly, a huge bear stands up in front of him and starts to charge. He can't help himself and screams out from the top of his lungs, "Dear God, please save me!" Immediately, time ceases its forward march, the bear is frozen in place, no breeze flutters the leaves, those leaves falling are suspended in the air, the silence of the forest is deafening. A voice rings out from the heavens and says, "All these years you have denied me. And now you want my help?"

With a pregnant pause, the atheist replies: "Yes God, and as disingenuous as it may be I need you. I was wrong, and I beseech you to at the very least turn the bear into a good religious bear."

The voice said, "Consider it done."

Everything returned to as it was, except the bear who stopped charging. The bear peered up through the forest canopy at the sunlight peaking in and said after making a temple of his two front paws, "Lord, I thank you for this meal I am about to enjoy. A man."
 
Yep. If a god exists, and he gave us a brain and created logic and reason, why would he punish us for using them? The inanity of religion, or the cruelty of the god.

Seriously, no god would ever want his "flock" to buy into this crap.

 
Incorrect. There's logic there as well.
FYI, as explained at the bottom of the OP, ""must exist" is my plain English rendition of the modal concept "necessarily exists."
FYI also, there is a categorical difference between X "necessarily exists" (or X "must exist") and "X exists."

Yes, but you equated them in your "proof." So thanks for admitting out that your proof is messed up. Saves me the trouble of arguing with you anymore.
 
Seriously, no god would ever want his "flock" to buy into this crap.



Benny Hinn is good. Can't question your judgement. But Robert Tilton was always my favourite:



When I was living at the frat house there was a year when every Sunday morning 1/2 the house got up just to watch him. A couple of breakfast beer and Robert Tilton. Everyone doing imitations. Good times. :)
 
Yep. If a god exists, and he gave us a brain and created logic and reason, why would he punish us for using them? The inanity of religion, or the cruelty of the god.

We didn't know anything until we ate the apple that she created and gave to us in order for us to never have it. That makes as much sense as the rest of the crap.
 
It's actually quite hilarious. I, and I'm sure others, have pointed out that you can replace "God" with "Santa Claus" or anything else, and according to Angel, that entity exists.

Also, using her logic, I showed how she has proven that the Christian God is a complete loser, and an asshole to boot. Suddenly she decided her logic was meaningless.
You and the others who've "pointed [this] out" have been corrected as many times as you persist in this ignorant refrain. God, if such a being exists, is a necessary being, whereas Santa Clause, Bigfoot, unicorns and the rest of the New Skeptic's menagerie, following the New Atheists in this particular bit of silliness, are contingent beings. The proof is not designed for contingent beings.
 
...I appreciate your kind words. I am, unfortunately, personally more wired to tear things down than build them up. I cannot help you improve your proof, other than subject your next iteration to the same analysis that I did for this one.
Like Socrates, yes?
Thanks again.
 
I called you a "she" in a couple of posts. It was completely unintended, and meant to carry no negative connotations. For whatever reason I've always imagined good angels as females, and when I saw your name....

My sincere apologies, and I will be most careful not to do that again. Thanks to Elvira for pointing it out. :)
No harm, no foul. Others have done likewise. Curious in that angels are traditionally androgynous, and that in Spanish-speaking cultures it is commonly a male name, pronounced "On hell."
 
Proof of God

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1. Whatever exists, can exist. (axiom: actuality implies possibility)
2. Whatever must exist, exists. (axiom: necessity implies actuality)
3. Whatever must exist, can exist. (axiom: necessity implies possibility)

4. If God exists, God must exist. (definition)

5. Either God must exist or God must not exist. (law of thought)
6. It is not the case that God must not exist. (negation of impossibility)
7. Therefore, God must exist. (from 5 and 6)

8. If God must exist, then God can exist. (from 3 and 7)
9. If God can exist, then God exists. (from converse of definition and 1)
10. God can exist. (from 3 and 7)
11. Therefore God exists. (from 9 and 10)


This is a modal argument in simple direct English answering the skeptical challenge to provide a proof of God's existence.
The author of the proof welcomes comment and good-faith engagement.​

Define Judd as a giant sentient Donald Trump wig who exclusively created our universe (instead of God) and is a being that must exist.

1. Whatever exists, can exist. (axiom: actuality implies possibility)
2. Whatever must exist, exists. (axiom: necessity implies actuality)
3. Whatever must exist, can exist. (axiom: necessity implies possibility)

4. If Judd exists, Judd must exist. (definition)

5. Either Judd must exist or Judd must not exist. (law of thought)
6. It is not the case that Judd must not exist. (negation of impossibility)
7. Therefore, Judd must exist. (from 5 and 6)

8. If Judd must exist, then Judd can exist. (from 3 and 7)
9. If Judd can exist, then Judd exists. (from converse of definition and 1)
10. Judd can exist. (from 3 and 7)
11. Therefore Judd exists. (from 9 and 10)

Your logic seems to prove two contradictory beings who created our universe, God and Judd. Essentially its like if I used your formula and came to the answer: 1 = 0.

So where is the flaw? #6.

6. It is not the case that Judd must not exist. (negation of impossibility)

You actually haven't prevented any evidence proving God or Judd aren't impossible. Perhaps sentient Trump wigs that can create universes, or disembodied minds that can do anything are actually impossible. Or maybe they are possible, but they are only things that can exist, not things that must exist, therefore negating their definitions.
 
No harm, no foul. Others have done likewise. Curious in that angels are traditionally androgynous, and that in Spanish-speaking cultures it is commonly a male name, pronounced "On hell."

Nowhere in Scripture do angels appear as women, children as in the from of cupids. They appear as young men.
 
^^^^
Silly Billy Bally High
Cussed a Nowt Unmade It Cry
Cried the Nowt Belay Baleen
Uncumber Number 413
 
Why not? I wasn't there so I can neither affirm or deny. :)

Or maybe I was and don't remember?

Yup you were there. It was one crazy party but Im not surprised you dont remember you were really downing the hard stuff
 
Seriously, no god would ever want his "flock" to buy into this crap.

Seriously, have you ever attended a revivalist tent meeting? A brimstone and fire vision of hell? Or a gospel love celebration? How about a healing through faith?

As an extreme skeptic, I've attended more than a few. Preconceptions aside, it has rarely been what I expected. Certainly some were hokey, sheer entertainment. Others, were great crowd source emotional fervor, fulfilling intense depths of spiritual need, whatever that may be for the searchers. Some amazingly boring, but more often overwhelmingly frightening, more nightmarish than any horror movie, or intensely joyous and uplifting, reaching and achieving emotional heights that are orgasmic.

What a god might want, who the hell knows? What people want and find at these events, not for you to judge, accept or reject. Whether it is a night out with cheap entertainment or some ecstatic moments, who are you to deny the searchers what they find? Are you that arrogant?
 
Seriously, have you ever attended a revivalist tent meeting? A brimstone and fire vision of hell? Or a gospel love celebration? How about a healing through faith?

As an extreme skeptic, I've attended more than a few. Preconceptions aside, it has rarely been what I expected. Certainly some were hokey, sheer entertainment. Others, were great crowd source emotional fervor, fulfilling intense depths of spiritual need, whatever that may be for the searchers. Some amazingly boring, but more often overwhelmingly frightening, more nightmarish than any horror movie, or intensely joyous and uplifting, reaching and achieving emotional heights that are orgasmic.

What a god might want, who the hell knows? What people want and find at these events, not for you to judge, accept or reject. Whether it is a night out with cheap entertainment or some ecstatic moments, who are you to deny the searchers what they find? Are you that arrogant?

Charlatans conning people in "his" name---I kinda doubt "he" would approve.
 
Yup you were there. It was one crazy party but Im not surprised you dont remember you were really downing the hard stuff

There were more than one of those obliterating the mind events during my younger years. Work hard, play hard. Waking groggy with a sandpaper mouth and the aftertaste of stale ale, with a dire need for aspirin to alleviate the blinding lights and deafening whispers. And when a hot, lingering shower barely rid the skin crawlers. Damn fun.
 
Seriously, no god would ever want his "flock" to buy into this crap.



I agree...the speaking in tongues and faith healing alone is something detestable to Jehovah...they completely sidestep the reason for both when Jesus and the apostles were on earth, for their own glory...
 
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